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Is tier IV as bad as it feels?

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I wouldn't bother. Tier 5 is the first "fun" tier after tier 2 if you want to have low tier action. There are exceptions, but they are almost exclusively limited MM prems like T-127.

 

On tier 3, I wouldn't bother playing anything that isn't T-127 or SU-76i if you were lucky to get it. Tier 3 against tier 5 feels like a cheat, and even many tier 4 tanks will give you hell due to armor/alpha/dpm gap that is HUUUUUUUUGE.

 

I felt like that when I got to my first Tier Vs (where I am currently). Tier V feels like hell because of the continued ability to be one-shot. There is the armor factor with tier IVs that many of them suck (M3 Lee, oh the love-hate relationship). I find that Tier Vs still have issues. The Pz.IVH has terrible armor. I like it so far, but it's a challenge getting used to it. Maybe because I sucked with the other Pz.IV series... The Churchill I was also my first Heavy and it took a while to get used to a) how it performs while grinding and b)  how other tanks perform in relation to it at Tier VI and VII.

 

We're all different. I really loved Tier IV. I like some of the tanks I've played quite a bit - Hetzer, Matilda, M3 Lee, Pz.38(t)na.

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Alright, a serious answer to this topic:

 

Nowadays, I HATE tier 1-5. However, back when I started, I loved tier 4.

 

2 tanks which are a must at tier 4: Matilda & SU-85b.

 

For your friend, I would firstly suggest the SU, he's more likely to enjoy it IMO, as I did when I was a scrub. With that tank, on most maps you can just sit in a bush and get away with blapping towards the front line. As your skill and knowledge is limited at so few battles, I'd say your friend would be more likely to have a part to play in the battle, even in tier 6 games. Just make sure you educate him on bush work. This line isn't horrendous to grind either, all the way up to the 704.

 

Matilda is just a must have tier 4 as you can pen most tier 6 tanks without even needing APCR. Progressing up the line is questionable.

 

-

 

The problem I have with lower tiers is that pubbies are just too unpredictable, it's literally just a free for all with virtually no tactics / map awareness, and oh gawd the gold spam is REAL. The KV-1 was once a favorite now just gets penned by gold constantly, it's just painful, I'd say the RU heavy line starts getting good at tier 6. So a decent line to start with indeed, but if you're planning to go up lines which have a less painful grind which is more forgiving to newcomers, my suggestions are above.

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The best tank in tier 4 is by far the Char B2 (captured one).... I think imo it is the definition of sealclubbing. That gun keeps clubbing at a very fast rate... I feel so dirty everytime I played a game with it in when there was no Matilda in the enemy team.

 

I really wish WG finds a solution to make lower tier tanks enjoyable, as I want to play with World War II tanks more than late war bluepaper tanks and early CW tanks tbh. Like, getting an historical battles mode.... but apperantly that is too hard. :/

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The ratio of good to bad tanks in tier four is heavily in favour of good tanks, ignoring arty.

The reason so many people think it's a bad tier are for the aforementioned MM problems and the three really standout shit tanks, the SAu, AMX 40 and D.W 2.

Covenanter, Matilda, Hetzer, Valentine, Marder, Alecto, Luchs, Stuarts, B1, StuG, Pz. III, VK, Ke-Ho, M8A1, T40, SU-85B, T-80 and T-28 are all completely workable at bottom tier.

The rest are just average, the Lee and Grant are nowhere near as bad as people say.

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Saw the Marder 38T mentioned once but it really should be more.  I'm not that great a tanker but I own in that thing.  Currently 71% win rate and average more than double it's HP in damage.

 

As for the Lee...I REALLY hated it the first time around but I hated all hull mounted guns at the time.  Now that I've learned to play them the Lee is really a very capable tank when played properly...like the TD that it really is.  I assume the Grant is the same/similar, I will be buying it soon to try out.

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A while back, someone challenged me to 200 battles in the DW2. (This was when Noobmeter still kept track of scores.) In my first 100 battles, I was top-tier a whopping 9 times. What kills tier 4 isn't the tanks, it's that they are constantly fighting at a disadvantage. Other tiers can hope that their luck will change after their 10th bottom-tier battle in a row, but for the tier 4, it's expected.

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Only one mention of the covenanter? What's wrong with you people?

On a related note I do find tier 4 to be the most difficult for newer players because youre actually getting into a few decent tanks and the MM does work against your favor, but for he more experienced players, tier 4 can be quite enjoyable, I mean you've got the

Hetzer

Su-85b

M8a1

T40

B1

Covenanter

Matilda

Marder38-T

All great tanks in my opinion. Though there are other tier 4s that make me want to stay well enough away from it

Pz38na

Amx40 (as derby as it is, you can't deny its a painful tank to play)

Dw2

M3lee (though I enjoyed mine, just going off popular opinion)

Basically any arty

M5 Stuart post 9.3

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I think that T4 really is that bad just because of the horrible MM and the struggle against T5 heavies: Unless you can vision kite them you will always have a tough time even if they are driven by the biggest muppet you can imagine.
As a result I would now pick T4 tanks with bottom tier performance in mind.
--> Armor is mostly worthless, but speed and a good gun are a must imo since you are mostly reduced to supporting your muppet top tiers. This reasoning is why I don't really like the Mathilda since it is just too slow for my taste. 
Speed and gun can be found on  a lot of tanks however: The T-28, the M8A1, the Ke-Ho (needs more APCR) and the Panzer IV Ausführung D.
When it comes to T4 scouts you have to use the Luchs because it is so cute. The Chinese Stuart is however also very good.

That said those are just the tanks I liked. There are others that can work, but they didn't click for me.

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Agreeing with the people saying it's more of a problem with MM than the tanks themselves. I rebought a Matilda last autumn, but ended up selling it again after a few dozen games. It's just no fun when even at peak times you're getting maybe 1/10 games in which you are top tier. The only T4 tanks left in my garage are Luchs and Ke-Ho. Speed, good guns and camo being super cute make them work even in poor matchups.

 

As a new player, T4 felt like a marketing tier for me. It's the first tier you can't just blast through with a couple of good doubles, gets awful MM, and generally requires more skillful play than the derpy lower tiers. The only thing missing is a "Buy a premium account to make it go away faster" pop-up when you've played your first 10 games in a DW2.

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M5 Stuart used to be nice but now it has been nerfed into oblivion. I would actually rather play the DW2

 

Yup, I waited to grind m5 until after light tank buff, then they take away the derp and its even worse than when it was seeing t8 tanks.

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Tier 4 is actually a good tier with a lot of good tanks...but your first Tier 4 tank is and always will be absolute hell. It doesn't matter what tank, either. Take a speedy little accurate Tier 4 tank capable of invisiraping Tier 6 heavies (when well-played) like a T40, M8A1 or Alecto, and it's still gonna be painful if it's your first Tier 4...because as has been said, you only see one tier lower but two tiers higher.

Out of all the tiers, your first Tier 4 is the most painful.

 

I must be the exception to that. My first tier 4 was the Matilda and I loved it. The slow speed kept my noob self from overextending, the high gun penetration reduced the need to aim for weakspots, and the good armor made me feel invincible compared to the other tanks I played at the time. I put hundreds of battles into that tank in my early play and it still shows now as one of my most played tanks.

 

I don't like the Matilda anymore. The complete inability to flex or do early damage is unbearable for me. But it was a wet dream of a tank for beginner noob me.

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T-28 is a perfectly decent tank, even if the tier itself sucks as a whole.   You can't run a crap crew in it, though, and you're going to want equipment.

 

You can't take hits so you really need to be lame with it.

 

I kept the T-28 without a crew.  I use my T-54 crew (75% effective skill) plus a few other random new crew members actually trained to it (because it has a wacky crew).  The ZiS-4 is such an amazing gun.  Yes, I'll take a gun at tier 4 that can pen M103 frontally.  

With my level of skill, it is still fun to play since it is fast and punchy.

 

Tier 3-4 are not THAT bad if you are experienced and using one of the best tanks in tier.  I enjoy the battles when I am guiding a new player through them.

However, they are HORRIBLE for new players.  If you haven't learned to leverage tanks, you are just getting thrown to the wolves.  

 

One of the last guys I introduced to the game I warned: "tier 3-4 are tough for new players, but I promise it gets better at tier 5".  We made it about halfway through tier 4, and he hasn't played since.  He was literally doing nothing in every battle.  The mistakes he made were punished very harshly.  I didn't really blame him.  

 

There are a lot of things you can say about wargaming, but far and away their worst sin is making the game so inaccessible.  The barrier to entry is extreme and they take almost no steps to train new players.

Compare to LoL where the tutorial and early modes tell you in real time what mistakes you are making, how to fix them, and then let you respawn.

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There are a lot of things you can say about wargaming, but far and away their worst sin is making the game so inaccessible.  The barrier to entry is extreme and they take almost no steps to train new players.

Compare to LoL where the tutorial and early modes tell you in real time what mistakes you are making, how to fix them, and then let you respawn.

 

It really makes you wonder how much better the game could be if they bothered to make proper tutorials for it. People love to hate on bad players on this forum, but when the game makes basically no attempt at explaining its core mechanics you can't really fault casual players for not knowing them. Someone who just wants to relax after work/school/whatever by blowing up pixel tanks isn't going spend their time googling armor profiles and vision mechanics.

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One of the last guys I introduced to the game I warned: "tier 3-4 are tough for new players, but I promise it gets better at tier 5".  We made it about halfway through tier 4, and he hasn't played since.  He was literally doing nothing in every battle.  The mistakes he made were punished very harshly.  I didn't really blame him.  

 

There are a lot of things you can say about wargaming, but far and away their worst sin is making the game so inaccessible.  The barrier to entry is extreme and they take almost no steps to train new players.

Compare to LoL where the tutorial and early modes tell you in real time what mistakes you are making, how to fix them, and then let you respawn.

 

Or, he absolutely sucks at everything in general. Seriously. Tiers 3-4 are filled with < 400 wn8 people for the most part, greens and up are a minority.

 

If can't cut it there then he's just hopeless and we're better for it that he quit instead of being another < 400 ruining T8 games in a premium he has no business being in.

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It really makes you wonder how much better the game could be if they bothered to make proper tutorials for it. People love to hate on bad players on this forum, but when the game makes basically no attempt at explaining its core mechanics you can't really fault casual players for not knowing them. Someone who just wants to relax after work/school/whatever by blowing up pixel tanks isn't going spend their time googling armor profiles and vision mechanics.

 

There are sooooo many things they could do to help.

my top list including things like:

  • 6th sense to everyone all the time, because it teaches vision mechanics better than anything else (thank goodness they are almost doing this)
  • We should be told what tanks we are spotting, and of those which we are spotting alone.
  • After a battle, the shots that penned and didn't pen our tank should show up in the garage.  Tips should pop up to explain how to use the armor better.
  • The shots we penned and didn't pen against enemies should be included as well.  Tips should pop up to explain how to pen the target tank.

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