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Platypusbill

As I suspected, SP armour got nerfed.

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First, pay close attention to this formula.

 

fiD0lx7.png

 

The SP's spaced armour is 38mm thick, and as such 76mm+ guns get ever increasing normalisation bonuses against it. The old model was a bit dumbed down in that the second layer of spaced armour was merged with the main hull (that area being 38mm thicker than the rest), but the new model has two separate plates- meaning that this effect is applied twice. Not only that, but the angles are nerfed as well. Summary below.

JRopOVZ.png

 

 

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Because the calibre of the gun affects normalisation and you have to calculate each plate separately, it's a PITA to check the effective thickness for multiple areas/scenarios, but for example protection against 105mm AP dropped from ~243 to ~217 on the strongest part (double overlap zone on UFP).

 

"Not nerfed" my ass.

 

 

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Goddamn it so much. There is literally no reason to drive the tank if it can't even bounce IS-6 shots in optimal conditions. It already has trouble with FCMs and T34s.

Paging I_Am_The_Cream for a candlelight vigil.

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I'm probably being overly optimistic, but didn't they delay the HD update for the SP?  Maybe this is one of the reasons?  Perhaps they're going to rework it so that the update won't hit it that badly? (maybe?.....please?... ;_; )

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You do realise that the new armour model is bugged ATM and as such it will be ready for patch 9.8 instead of 9.7 so they can fix it?

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You do realise that the new armour model is bugged ATM and as such it will be ready for patch 9.8 instead of 9.7 so they can fix it?

 

It doesn't change the fact that they will likely keep both spaced plates modeled separately.

 

They did overnerf the UFP though, AFAIK it's 46 degrees historically, not 43. But I doubt any major changes are happening.

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So this is what they are doing to the "sheltered premiums". Just nerf them so no one plays them.

Please don't say that.  I don't want them to nerf my IS-6.

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So this is what they are doing to the "sheltered premiums". Just nerf them so no one plays them.

I doubt they'll do blatant nerfs... they don't want another SPershing fiasco again.

They're opting for stealth nerfs where the uninformed mass wouldn't realize it.

and what with the IS-5 being a CW reward tank instead of an alternate premium tier 8 (rip), they wouldn't do that for a loonnnggg time

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I'm pretty sure that it has been confirmed that normalization bonuses only get applied once.

This. I know you cannot overmatch more than once, so I am fairly certain the 2x overmatch normalization wouldn't get applied twice either.

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I'm pretty sure that it has been confirmed that normalization bonuses only get applied once.

 

Never seen such a rule. But it can be tested once we get the new SP.

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Never seen such a rule. But it can be tested once we get the new SP.

I think I've heard it too that normalization is only calculated once upon hitting a tank and whatever it hits next gets no such bonuses.  Since overmatch ingame is just done by decreasing normalization, I wonder if this change will end up being all too big or not.  I'm still just going to wait until we can actually shoot the things first before getting my rump rustled.

 

I'm still betting on it being a nerf though.

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Fuck the IS-6...

SP is trash now. I played a few last night to get some x3's and such.

 

I was angling on a Tiger 1. Tiger 1. Of course he pens me in the front (not the turret) with regular AP....then the cunt switches to gold? Jesus fuck dummy, you penned me with AP, why do you need APCR now?

 

This can't bounce  shit now. Penned me 4 times straight. I was angling like a mofo.

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According to the wiki:

 

Shell Normalization

The impact angle of AP and APCR shells onto a vehicles armour is normalized, i.e. adjusted towards the armour's normal axis at the point of impact.

In case of spaced armour, shells are normalized at the point of impact on the spaced armour, and if they penetrate, continue along their normalized flight path into the vehicle. Once it impacts the hull armour, normalization occurs again and the remaining penetration potential (i.e. the original penetration potential minus the effective armour thickness of the spaced armour) is used to calculate whether the shell penetrates the hull proper.

As of update 8.6, APCR shells are normalized at 2°. The normalization amount is a constant value depending on the shell; there is no randomization.

The impact angle of HEAT and HE shells is not normalized at all. Angle is used for armor line-of-sight thickness calculations, as normal.

-------------

So if the wiki is right, normalization occurs for every armor plate hit. (That said - I'm pretty sure that I read previously, that normalization only occurs once. Tests are probably needed to be absolutely sure).

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To be honest. Realistically speaking this is crap. After the first Penetration the shell would be deformed and another calculated normalization would be very unlikely.

If this were realistic, normalization would make the effective angle greater than the angle of impact.

xSixWSL.png

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To be honest. Realistically speaking this is crap. After the first Penetration the shell would be deformed and another calculated normalization would be very unlikely.

 

Normalisation as a whole is bullshit AFAIK. Before modern APFSDS rounds (which are not present in WoT), shells tended to skid and deflect away when they hit well-sloped plates, so the effective armour was actually in excess of the line of sight thickness. Shells magically rotating 45 degrees upon hitting a very thin plate also seems illogical.

 

It is easier to penetrate multiple thin plates than a single thick one though. A shell needs to push the steel out of the way as it goes through the armour, and it's easier to push if there's an empty space behind the target instead of more steel.

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Normalisation as a whole is bullshit AFAIK. Before modern APFSDS rounds (which are not present in WoT), shells tended to skid and deflect away when they hit well-sloped plates, so the effective armour was actually in excess of the line of sight thickness. Shells magically rotating 45 degrees upon hitting a very thin plate also seems illogical.

 

It is easier to penetrate multple thin plates than a single thick one though. A shell needs to push the steel out of the way as it goes through the armour, and it's easier to push if there's an empty space behind the target instead of more steel.

Kind of depends on what the initial "thin" plate does though, as in layered/laminated armor the concept was that the first bit of armor it hit completely deformed the round, making it mostly ineffective as the slightly-reduced force would be applied to a larger area, making the likelihood of a penetration lower.

There was a Type 64 prototype (not the experimental version that used the M41 WB) out there somewhere that could resist ~220mm pen shells (from a 20 pdr) somewhere out there with this concept in mind.

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I know there was some light vehicle that has spaced armor that if it were just one homogeneous piece of armor, it would be no better than your grandma's car in saving you.  However, the armor could stop some small arms fire assuming it was close enough since the first plate will cause the round to become destabilized or something to that effect and fail to pierce the second sheet.  However, it wasn't meant to stop anything bigger than Mohamed's AK, so the concept isn't really applicable here.  I can't remember at all who used it or what it was called though.

 

If you're talking about armor meant to stop cannon fire, much more often than not, it's better to have a single homogeneous plate than a layered one like Mr. Platypus explained above rather well.  Having spaced armor can actually make a HEAT round more effective, provided that the distance between the two plates is not excessive.  I think there's a few specific cases where multiple layers is better, but I can't remember.  Might have been against APC rounds or something, but I need to give myself a refresher on this stuff.

 

I do recall that the TOG II was armored with two separate plates of different hardness, dunno how well it worked.  The idea was to have a tougher plate used in conjunction with a softer plate to help prevent spalling and other issues associated with especially hard steel.  Composite armor, the Brits did it first guys!

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