'classic/brute' tier 6 and 8 heavy?

[Zythalin 89]

Question:

Which tier 6 and 8 play as an actual heavy (not heavium) as bottom tier? (if any)

 

'Brute': Fairly reliable protection or good at trading. Regardless of tier.

Tier 7 = T29

Tier 9 = ST-I, E75, vk45.02B

Tier 10 = Ehundo, IS7

 

'Heavium': Will trollbounce / brawl but don't really want to expose against higher tiers.

Tier 6: KV85

Tier 8: IS3

Tier 9: Wz 111111-1/4

 

Tier 6:

- T150: Armor towards higher tiers when sidescraping?

- KV-2: Sufficient alpha (AP+ or HE) to forget armor due to trading well?

- ARL 105: Turret too bad to play with heavies?

 

Tier 8:

- Tiger II: Suffers versus tier 9-10 armor wise? Can't trade?

- KV4: Turret too soft? Can't trade?

- 110: How good is the armor? Heavium role as bottom tier? Can't trade?

- JPII: Superstructure but too situational / mantlet and no turret?

- T32: Too situational / boom not sufficient?

[zapyoug 2,141]

you cant really anchor bottom tier unless you have one of the hull down monsters

now as per being useful in a heavy while bottom tier

-would probably prefer the arl with the combination of good speed, decent frontal armor, good alpha and pen (with gold)

-jpz & t32 are both good

-110 is nice because the Armour can bounce tier 10s if they try to lol through the upper section as well as a good turret and decent gun

[ncc81701 152]

T32 can anchor really well if it can find a hull down spot. I once pin down a T110E5 and a 50M on sand river whom shot at nothing but my turret and blocked 4.5K in damage while dealing 2.5K in return. 

[Zythalin 89]

110 or T32 seem intresting.

 

you cant really anchor bottom tier unless you have one of the hull down monsters

 

Well it's intended as "What tank can guide the top tier heavies."

 

Not parking in front of TDs or drive into the open. However, a tank that can make something happen.

 

NB: I could pick a medium or heavium and try to roll the other flank, that's not the question.

[shutupshake 101]

I would say none of the tier 6/8 heavies can be general anchors at bottom tier. Only exceptions that come to mind are hull-down M6 and hull-down T32. But since they rely heavily on specific terrain to be effective at bottom tier, they are situational at best. 

[KraftLawrence 1,435]

Nothing plays like a "heavy" if you're down 2 tiers.

[Bubbym7 4]

At tier 6 I prefer the KV-2 with the 152mm howitzer, in a tier 6 games I shoot premium AP and I utterly pwn anything besides Sherman Jumbo's and churchill VII's. At bottom tier you can still smack them in the face with HE for 300-400dmg.

[blackzaru 588]

In the "brute" section, the vk45.02B has it's place. It's a monster.

 

In the "heavium" section, there are trully no better medium-like heavy example than the FCM 50t.

 

 

 

Otherwise, if you consider tier 6s and 8s that are 2 tiers lower in mm (given you know how to play them when 2 tiers lower);

Tier 6s that will fare well against 8s:

• T150
• KV85

Tier 8s that will fare well against 10s:

• T34
• 50-100 (though not a real heavy)
• IS-3
• 110

 

IMO: even if the t32 has a superb turret, he simply lacks penetration to play effectively against 10s. You'd have to fire gold non-stop (or almost), especially against other heavies.

 

However, playing a heavy like a heavy 2 tiers lower is very risky up to downright suicidal.

[MrsmilieyfaceC8 668]

vk36

T32

[SONOFABENCH 210]

No love for the Tier 6 - M6? Thing is a beast of a heavy. Got my 3rd stripe recently. Was avg 2-3k dmg to get it, just recently. 6 sec reload, permatrack dem pubs.

[_Assad 3,538]

T32/JP2

 

Fuck KV85

VK all the way

[Cunicularius 4,543]

No love for the Tier 6 - M6? Thing is a beast of a heavy. Got my 3rd stripe recently. Was avg 2-3k dmg to get it, just recently. 6 sec reload, permatrack dem pubs.

It doesn't even bounce 128mm pen 75mms frontally and its sides are nothing but overmatch vs 122's, the VK will actually troll the fuck out of you with range and angling, espcially the turret

[Zythalin 89]

From investigation in tank inspector and posts above...

 

Tier 6

Seems obvious which is best armoured turret:

- ARL: the whole turret is sub 110 (apart from tiny mantlet) and overmatch (90+ cal).

- M6: the whole turret is sub 110.

- VK: most of the mantlet is sub 110 pen.

- T150: a small part of the mantlet is sub 110. The rest seems 'stalin' 175+ pen.

 

Hull armor-wise:

-T150 can sidescrape.

- ARL v44 epic front plate, over-angled 200+

 

=> T150 (up to 175-200)

      ARL44 (when 200+ pen is considered, over-angled UFP)

      VK (due to angling)

 

Tier 8

110 and T32 seem to come close. 110 has lower plate / can't sidescrape, T32 does lacks pen.
 

With extra sloping from terrain, 110 has the armor required to bounce tier 10 premium. Good luck with 'extra slope' while hiding the huge lower plate...

 

T32 can have all the turret armor in the world if it can hardly pen heavies...

 

=> 110 (situational due to LFP)

     T32 (provided hulldown and enough pen)

 

Neither really covers the whole package (boom + armor), 110 sticks out due to reliability and flexability (can perform as heavium or 'brute').

[_Assad 3,538]

T150 is more trollish than the ARL in my experiences

 

Also my suggestion in this is learn to analyze every game in every tank what you can and cannot pen reliably and shift the tank in such a matter that avoids those which you cant if at all possible frontally. The T32 on a hill abusing its depression is taller than the tanks it will be fighting also negating their frontal armor

 

Dont get me wrong tankinspector is a great resource but it doesnt show how a tank should be used to its best abilities.

[Zythalin 89]

Also my suggestion in this is learn to analyze every game in every tank what you can and cannot pen reliably and shift the tank in such a matter that avoids those which you cant if at all possible frontally. The T32 on a hill abusing its depression is taller than the tanks it will be fighting also negating their frontal armor

 

True, but T32 will still struggle versus quite some higher tiers.

 

I know that you can simply walk away and go somewhere else, but that wasn't the excercise here.

[Ollie Tabooger 614]

Nothing plays like a "heavy" if you're down 2 tiers.

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As for your questions OP, I would agree with Craftman and say that the T-150 and T32 both deserve a spot on the list, as well as the VK. So does the 110, about equal with the IS-3, maybe worse (not as good of a sidescraper, but harder turret that not everyone shoots at the roof of and an actually tough pike).

[M4A3E8sherman 155]

in a tier 6 games I shoot premium AP and I utterly pwn anything besides Sherman Jumbo's and churchill VII's

Shoot Churchill VIIs in the tracks from the front. There's sponson armor behind them that's only 76mm thick.

[Zythalin 89]

An error occurred

You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

As for your questions OP, I would agree with Craftman and say that the T-150 and T32 both deserve a spot on the list, as well as the VK. So does the 110, about equal with the IS-3, maybe worse (not as good of a sidescraper, but harder turret that not everyone shoots at the roof of and an actually tough pike).

 

"Nothing plays like a "heavy" if you're down 2 tiers."

(excluding T29)

 

I gave his post +1 and added VK & T32 to the list.

[FlorbFnarb 537]

Question:

Which tier 6 and 8 play as an actual heavy (not heavium) as bottom tier? (if any)

'Brute': Fairly reliable protection or good at trading. Regardless of tier.

Tier 7 = T29

Tier 9 = ST-I, E75, vk45.02B

Tier 10 = Ehundo, IS7

'Heavium': Will trollbounce / brawl but don't really want to expose against higher tiers.

Tier 6: KV85

Tier 8: IS3

Tier 9: Wz 111111-1/4

Tier 6:

- T150: Armor towards higher tiers when sidescraping?

- KV-2: Sufficient alpha (AP+ or HE) to forget armor due to trading well?

- ARL 105: Turret too bad to play with heavies?

Tier 8:

- Tiger II: Suffers versus tier 9-10 armor wise? Can't trade?

- KV4: Turret too soft? Can't trade?

- 110: How good is the armor? Heavium role as bottom tier? Can't trade?

- JPII: Superstructure but too situational / mantlet and no turret?

- T32: Too situational / boom not sufficient?

Hull-down a T32 can play as a heavy when bottom tier...if you're willing to spam APCR.

KT's turret means you don't even want to take hits from same-tier heavies; forget about higher tier.

Same goes for the ARL: both tanks are squishy everywhere except the UFP.

T-150 armor has never been reliable for me. Turret is probably the weak point.

[FlorbFnarb 537]

No love for the Tier 6 - M6? Thing is a beast of a heavy. Got my 3rd stripe recently. Was avg 2-3k dmg to get it, just recently. 6 sec reload, permatrack dem pubs.

M6 can do very well at bottom tier, but it's all gun and mobility due to the gun handling, gold pen and horsepower. It doesn't tank anything from higher tier tanks.

Why do people keep mentioning the VK 3601 in this thread? Bad AP pen and sluggish mobility makes it a good bottom tier tank how, exactly, when it doesn't have armor that is difficult to higher tier tanks?

[TankkiPoju 12]

No love for the Tier 6 - M6? Thing is a beast of a heavy. Got my 3rd stripe recently. Was avg 2-3k dmg to get it, just recently. 6 sec reload, permatrack dem pubs.

 

M6 seems to get little love. While T-150 is great in tier 6 games, M6 seems to a lot better in tier 8... probably because of dat APCR round and accuracy, so you can stay back and snipe. You even have gun depression.

 

But it's basically a gun platform, and not really a heavy tank IMHO.

[Zythalin 89]

Why do people keep mentioning the VK 3601 in this thread? Bad AP pen and sluggish mobility makes it a good bottom tier tank how, exactly, when it doesn't have armor that is difficult to higher tier tanks?

 

It can bounce some shots. However, I wouldn't test my luck against tier 7-8 really.

 

Hull-down a T32 can play as a heavy when bottom tier...if you're willing to spam APCR.

KT's turret means you don't even want to take hits from same-tier heavies; forget about higher tier.

Same goes for the ARL: both tanks are squishy everywhere except the UFP.

T-150 armor has never been reliable for me. Turret is probably the weak point.

 

T32 imo is the only one listed that gets away with exposing. 110 second, harder to find good spot.

 

ARL is a Tiger II that traded gun handling, and turret armor in exchange for an upper front plate that actually works within its tier spread and protruding tracks.

 

Bottom line:

No tier 6 applies armor wise as bottom. Some tier 8s (situationally) might.

[Sarke 1]

Did everybody forget all about the IS-3? It trolls so many 10s so hard; there's almost no terrain where you can't be near-invincible and the speed helps you "lead" the pushes if that's what you want to do. The only problem is that the closer you get the faster you will die from "lucky" roof hits, but it's usually possible to take at least two 10s down with you by that time unless you're doing it from within like 50-75m (roof hits will be as often as 1/2 or more). You can also hide your roof hull down and still be able to shoot on some hills / other terrain but mantlet still pennable in some places, although few people seem to know this and shoot you there.

 

It's not a dumb brute like 4502b (and you need to stay the fuck away from them in an IS-3 ) but if you play it smart it's almost equally brute. If you play well you will bounce 19/20 shots but I guess there will always be that one hit that does damage that would have bounced on an IS-7 or ST-I. I would say it's more brute than T29 and E75, and roughly on the same level as ST-I, very close behind 4502b.

 

But just my opinion, and I haven't tried ST-I or E 75 ever (although never had any problems killing an E 75).

[Zythalin 89]

I'd clasify it as a heavium, 110 is the brute version. While IS-3 can bounce, you don't want to count on it. Even when top tier, can't expose your front* / turret roof for too long. It's a good brawler but not a super-heavy.

 

*unless rounding corners: the angled side

[FlorbFnarb 537]

IS-3 isn't hard to pen anywhere except the front of the turret, really.