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PepperMill

vk 36.01 (H) with Konisch gun

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I've had this tank lingering in my garage for a while.  Decided to work up the line to at least the E 75.  I need around 30k more XP to unlock the Tiger 1.

 

Remembered the Waffe 0725 as being great on this tank and on the vk 30.01 (H) when I last played them.  In fact kept the 30.01 (H) because it was so much fun. 

 

I am finding that the 36.01 (H) with this gun is now painful to play when mid or bottom tier.  Just can't get the shots to hit weak spots.  I thought the accuracy nerf of 9.6 was not supposed to affect high accuracy guns when fully aimed.   The shots aren't far off but far enough to cause bounces.

 

It now plays like a slower firing version of the US T37 76 mm.  The T37 has the speed to make the gun work.  The 36.01 does not.

 

So why am I posting.   Looking for contradiction or validation on the use of the Waffe gun.  

Is the short 88 now the better gun to use on this tank?   Was it always?

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I've had this tank lingering in my garage for a while.  Decided to work up the line to at least the E 75.  I need around 30k more XP to unlock the Tiger 1.

 

Remembered the Waffe 0725 as being great on this tank and on the vk 30.01 (H) when I last played them.  In fact kept the 30.01 (H) because it was so much fun. 

 

I am finding that the 36.01 (H) with this gun is now painful to play when mid or bottom tier.  Just can't get the shots to hit weak spots.  I thought the accuracy nerf of 9.6 was not supposed to affect high accuracy guns when fully aimed.   The shots aren't far off but far enough to cause bounces.

 

It now plays like a slower firing version of the US T37 76 mm.  The T37 has the speed to make the gun work.  The 36.01 does not.

 

So why am I posting.   Looking for contradiction or validation on the use of the Waffe gun.  

Is the short 88 now the better gun to use on this tank?   Was it always?

 

I myself used the 88, shot gold every time needed (so a lot) and sold it asap

 

I never liked VK36 though, and always considered it vastly overrated (and much worse as VK-3001H), a very dull tank, which only works due to hp / dpm, because its too slow, sluggish and poor to anything else but soak hits and try to do enough dmg during the time you last...

 

ps: VK 3001 h, as tier 6 was very nice, and as tier 5 heavy is also fine, i even kept it after the chance, and still play it once in a while

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The VK has undergone a lot of rebalancing which has changed the meta of the tank each time. Way back first thing (when prem ammo was gold only), most of the poor folks used the 88mm and lived with it. The rich folks used the Konish with full APCR because it gave it an extra 50 damage or something with gold plus over ~200mm of pen. Super OP. Then the konish gun got buffed so that normal AP rounds did the same damage as the APCR, and then everyone shifted to that meta. It was super good at this time, and a favorite tank of mine. (gold ammo got changed to being available for credits before this time iirc). Then with the German engine changes and this tank being moved to a heavy, basically ruined it. No armor buffs and slower, the 75mm just doesn't work for a heavy tank.

I played it a little bit on another account last summer, and it was not terrible with the 88mm. Lots of apcr is needed, but against T7 tanks it can pen most shots provided you aim enough, and in T8s its more of a low tier support medium than a heavy. Don't stay front line, keep your heavies from being flanked, stuff like that. As top tier though, the hp pool and DPM can just demolish a whole flank in very short time. 2-3 shots for most t5 tanks with enough armor to bounce most shells means you become the biggest bully in the tier.

 

tl;dr: use the 88mm, cry when you get t8 matches. accept how OP it is as top tier in compensation.

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Thanks.  Think I wanted it to be the 30.01 H but more.  Have to take it for what it is.

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I got 2 marks on this thing and I can say that you must run the 8.8 with a bunch of gold rounds. The sheer health pool of the tank is enough to just roll over most things and then the 8.8 has middle-of-the-road alpha so if you use prem it really becomes quite capable. You don't have the armor or reliable pen to 1v2/3 other tanks but in 1v1 you can roll over anything at your tier. I liked it. It's like a Tiger 1 down a tier and with notably less pen (long 8.8 is sex)

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After using the low alpha Waffe on the 30.01H I am happier with the 88 on the 36.01 H in the very short time I have had it. 

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I've been wondering about this myself. Have had the 30.01(H) for a couple of months and absolutely love it. Got my second MOE weeks ago and was close to my third until the E100 On Track event started --- now I'm drooling at my keyboard and my stats are burning; I've never done this kind of grind, and I never, EVER will again. I had already unlocked the 36.01(H) so I bought that over the weekend and free XPed all of the modules (I've got close to 300K free XP) and transferred a ~170% crew from another tank to it. Also still have the Pz III A so I have three tanks that I'm running for this event. In my 30.01(H) I'm way down to a ~65% w/r in ~150 battles (was above 80% for a long time). As for the 36.01(H) (~65% w/r in ~30 battles), I haven't yet tried the 8.8. My major concerns are

1) a LOT less pen, even with premium ammo,

2) slightly lesser accuracy and

3) it has about 66% of the ROF of the Waffe.

 

At work right now, so from the wiki:

 

VII 7,5/5,5 cm Waffe 0725 157/221 135/135 12 0.34 2.5   720

 

VII 8,8 cm Kw.K. 36 L/56 132/171/44 220/220/270 8.7 0.38 2.3   2050

 

I like the almost double alpha of the 8.8, however the ROF and pen, at least on paper, suck compared to the Waffe. Maybe I'll try the 8.8 and as as Luthrior said above in T8 battles I'll just sit waaay back, much further than I already do, and cry. With the Waffe both tanks are the best snipers I've seen yet, at there tiers (save a couple of TDs). I'm wondering how that will work with the 8.8 though. I have a feeling I'll try it but switch back to the Waffe due to the lack of pen and much superior ROF. Not worried about credits either (have close to 20M) but that's doesn't mean that I want to fire 80% of my 8.8 rounds as premium rounds. I always think of premium rounds as a crutch, and I try to use them in any tank as little as possible. Yes I do bounce more than I would otherwise, but how else do you learn? And it also lessens the challenge severely, which to me is important and part of what makes this game fun.

 

Thanks for starting this thread PepperMill. I have a long way to go for that Pz. IV S in 1 1/2 weeks, but I have it in my alt account and I like it. Definitely not the best tier 6 premium out there, but it does suffice and as a German tank it's a great sniper, and I like a flexible snipers (think Hellcat, even now post-massive-nerf, in my opinion).

 

BTW, hate to ask this but what is the Konisch gun?

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The waffe 0725 used to be called the konisch in-game. Most of us oldfolks still refer to is as such.

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The Konisch is the 75, it's a squeeze bore design, that's why pen is so high.

DPM Konisch = 2288.14

DPM 88. = 2271.95

However, the 88 is still the choice because you expose yourself less for same DPM but higher alpha. Either way this tank is a buzz saw when it can shoot.

Show no mercy to thine enemies, because none shall be shown to thine credit stack.

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88 is the infinitely better gun. The Konisch is just too pew pew. It works on the medium tanks because they have the mobility and flexibility. This thing doesn't have the armor to be able to stand there and take hits. This is definitely a peek-a-boom fighter. The DPM on the 88 is amazing, to say the least.

 

Only downside is gold spam is pretty much mandatory in a majority of your games if you want reliable damage, otherwise just in tier 8 games. But even with gold spam, you don't lose credits since this is tier 6. I've outdamaged baddies in tier 8 games.

 

I am so glad I didn't free-xp this thing back when it didn't have the engine and was running the stock turret with the Konisch.

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I've used the Waffle all the way, I just can't see that 88 on a slow tank. The DPM between the two guns is almost exactly the same on the 36.01, so you're deciding between a large alpha gap on one hand and large accuracy, shell velocity, and penetration gaps plus a small gun handling gap and the cost gap. I'm never worried about top tier battles, it's bottom tier that sucks and the Waffle puts hurt out against 8s pretty easily. It also adds a lot more flexibility, the waffle is a great sniper while the 88 is really bad at long range fire. Even with the relative alpha disadvantage it feels like I have no trouble when I need to front line, the extra accuracy and pen means I stay mobile and snap shot with good effect and troll enemy shots by being constantly in motion. The turret is easily penned if you stop moving and the enemy has a clue, but in motion it trolls a lot of shots.

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I wasn't around then, but at one time the konisch had a ROF of 20 and like 0.29 accuracy, or something thereabouts. It simply had to be ridiculous.

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It was.

I ground the 3601 back before the Konisch AP round got buffed but after gold rounds for credits were added, thankfully. I used the long 75 once I got that, then the Konisch. As soon as I got the 88 researched I switched to it to avoid the 100% APCR loadout necessary with the Konisch back then.

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So here is my dilemma... I am trying to get up to the good guns on this. I came to the VK36.01 from the Panzer IV, which means I am basically playing it totally stock. Running the 10.5cm. Stock tracks, etc. I have the free xp for the tracks, but not a gun. I don't think a new gun will mount without the tracks.

 

I do a couple hundred damage and maybe get a kill before a get DPM'd to death... What suggestions might you all have?

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@admiralvictor, Don't play stock tanks. There is no "least painful" way to play a tank in the worst possible config, so either save up the free exp or just grind it out and accept that it will be miserable.

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I'm thinking this thing will need buffs, but I don't like the buffs some have recommended: better horsepower and more 88mm pen. That will turn it into an M6 clone, which is not needed.

Perhaps a good solid buff to Konisch RoF and accuracy would do the trick? 15 rpm and .32 accuracy perhaps? That would be very much like a Tier 6 Tiger.

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