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swami

The most important tank on your team

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With the exception of perhaps Himmelsdorf (and even then...)

 

Your scout

 

This is the guy that's going to:

 

* Show you which direction the enemy is deploying and the composition of the deployment.  Oh and if you have xvm installed you'll also know where the good tanks went.

* Light up the enemy tanks so you can shoot them without being seen.

* Generate map control and area denial.  Knowing what area is clear for your team will allow them to advance to better forward positions.  Enemies getting spotted by your scout will have their sixth sense buzzing and likely hold off from advancing.

* Counter-scout to remove enemy scout threat for your team/artillery.

 

Your higher tier scouts can also:

 

* Light and/or kill artillery (which was a major factor pre 8.6 but still important).

* Flex to cap or defend an enemy cap.

* Harass, distract, or destroy higher tier enemy tanks.

 

No other type of tank in the game can do so much for their team.  A great scout on an average team will provide it with a distinct advantage over a better team that has an inferior scout.

 

The major problem is that... there aren't many great scouts in the game.  It's the most difficult  skill to master.  You need to:

 

* Be extremely fluent with control of your tank.

* Have very high map awareness and response time.

* Know the best passive spots and the best avenues for active spotting.

* Understand when push, fall back, or engage.

* Have a thorough understanding of the game mechanics.

* Communicate with your team

 

Take an often hated-on map like Campnikova.

 

ScoutMalnikova_zps61bf86f3.jpg

 

A simple parallel scout run on your way out of the base can easily result in the destruction and/or damage of numerous enemy tanks within the first minute of the battle.  This provides a huge advantage to your team.  The 'B' side also has the awesome G2 passive spot and the 'A' side gets the excellent E7 spot.  The E7 spot is probably superior because spotting from G2 can cause the bulk of your tanks to sit in base for an extended period while they shoot at the enemy base.  This can lead to loss of 'the hill' and map control as well.  The E7 spot relies on your team advancing quickly towards to hill in order to get shots down the A line as the enemy moves up.

 

Long post is long....anyways.

 

It makes me cringe every time I see a scout tank crying about being in a high tier match.  They can do so much to help the team if they understood how valuable they could be!

 

 

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It brings me great pleasure to fight alongside a skilled light - medium tank player who knows how to scout. There are many matches where me or someone in my team scouted in a LT giving us a huge advantage by covering and suppressing fire without being detected. I have had many instances where my team or the enemy team gets deliberately owned just because one scout was passive scouting at the front lines like on Prok 1 - 2 line.

 

Because of their great mobility and small profile, they make the best tanks for scouting purposes. No team can fight when they are blind. They also make great cap re-setters and are invaluable for locating arty, exposing weak flanks and at times, supporting a push by ROF or attacking vulnerable spots on an enemy.

 

The only thing they can't do well is carry a team although tanks like the AMX series have teeths like Garbad's guide about "Scout with teeth".

 

Sadly we don't get to see any light tanks in tier 10 CWs as BatChat 25t, and occasionally the Leopard I are the scouts.

 

What do you guys think of a tier 10 light tank?

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a good scout, yes.

An average scout is probably close to the least valuable player on any team.

A bad scout is always the least valuable player on either team, only rivaled by other bad scouts.

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One important thing to add (and somewhat there but needs to be emphasised)-- Not all scouts are light tanks.

 

Most scouts are lights, but not ALL.

 

Fast mediums and TDs can also play an excellent role as scouts.  On of my biggest improvements has been when low tier to use my tank as a scout when I'm a medium or TD.

 

An excellent example is Garbad's review of Campanova in the T-54:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/242892-unicum-diaries-ridge-exploitation-on-campinova/page__fromsearch__1

 

and also this one in the T-44

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/256841-unicum-diaries-scouting-in-more-detail/page__fromsearch__1

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Dunno, bad arty is less useful than bad scout IMO.

 

Whee, I don't think we need more powerful scouts, I think we need bigger maps so they can actually have a chance to get into the enemy rear areas and/or have more than 1 or 2 well-known spots per map to scout from.

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Disagree, even bad arty can get a lucky roll and one-shot the enemy team's best player. Bad scouts do nothing nearly every game. Bad arty do very little most games. There's a reason why bad/new players gravitate towards arty - it allows them to actually be useful.

 

The thing that really keeps me out of running scouts more than rarely is the extremely map-dependent nature of them. Sure, I might get campinovka or the magic forest and rake up 5k spotting, but the next map might be Himmelsdorf followed by a series of six runs of Port. It's just too risky for me.

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Sadly, a decent scout appears once in a blue moon and then the chances it doesn't yolorun further diminishes the chances of getting a good scout that does its job competently.

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I've said it many times before, and it bears repeating:  Vision control is the greatest advantage you can give to a team.

 

But, copying a theme I posted on recently in the old forums, most teams don't understand what to do when they have a good scout on their side.  Scouting is a role that is so rarely done well, that the very concept of "good scouting" is as foreign to an average player as "HP sharing" or "Pushing on an enemy when you outnumber him 3:1"  I'm not sure what is more frustrating.  Playing a scout, lighting a dozen tanks, and watching them all pass by unharmed as the team moves into areas where they get spotted, or setting up in a great firing position, only to have no vision on the enemy blob.

 


 

What do you guys think of a tier 10 light tank?

 

Personally, I like the concept, but do not think it would be good for the game.  Scouts already have a high skill barrier.  A terribad in a tier 10 heavy or TD can accidentally have a good game from time to time, but such a player in a light would be useless at all times.  Additionally, a niche would have to be found for them.  Most tier 10s already have 400+ meter view ranges.  How would you ensure the scout's spotting role in such an environment?  Give it a base view range of 440, so that it can cut into camo if you use any vision equipment?  Give it so much camo that a properly crewed one is invisible outside of 200 m, even on an open road?  And then there is the firepower question.  High mobile accuracy?  High RoF, low damage?  If you want any semblance of historical accuracy, the gun can only be so good.  But would a weak gunned, super spotter be enough to balance out the tier 10 TD on the other team?

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Disagree, even bad arty can get a lucky roll and one-shot the enemy team's best player. Bad scouts do nothing nearly every game. Bad arty do very little most games...

 

Eh...I would say bad scouts get more lights and provide more opportunities than a bad arty player who takes 4 shots a game and whiffs them all.  

 

Even your crappy suiscout at least gives you a momentary look at the enemy deployment, and gives a little value to his team.  Conversely, an arty player is utterly dependent on others to provide info to him so he can provide value to the team.  If he misses, then no value was delivered.

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When multiple light tanks on your team refuse to do a quick field spot on malinovka a puppy dies. No seriously I hate that shit it's so easy and simple. Then they yolo suicide before anyone is ready to shoot or they defend arty all game.

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Disagree, even bad arty can get a lucky roll and one-shot the enemy team's best player. Bad scouts do nothing nearly every game. Bad arty do very little most games. There's a reason why bad/new players gravitate towards arty - it allows them to actually be useful.

 

The thing that really keeps me out of running scouts more than rarely is the extremely map-dependent nature of them. Sure, I might get campinovka or the magic forest and rake up 5k spotting, but the next map might be Himmelsdorf followed by a series of six runs of Port. It's just too risky for me.

 

I am a pretty good LT driver, but this has been what has kept me out of my LTs recently. They are team ENABLERs but not team carriers. And the map dependency of vision control is a real blah aspect. At least Widepark is gone though! (440x440 map ftl)

 

 

Personally, I like the concept, but do not think it would be good for the game.  Scouts already have a high skill barrier.  A terribad in a tier 10 heavy or TD can accidentally have a good game from time to time, but such a player in a light would be useless at all times.  Additionally, a niche would have to be found for them.  Most tier 10s already have 400+ meter view ranges.  How would you ensure the scout's spotting role in such an environment?  Give it a base view range of 440, so that it can cut into camo if you use any vision equipment?  Give it so much camo that a properly crewed one is invisible outside of 200 m, even on an open road?  And then there is the firepower question.  High mobile accuracy?  High RoF, low damage?  If you want any semblance of historical accuracy, the gun can only be so good.  But would a weak gunned, super spotter be enough to balance out the tier 10 TD on the other team?

 

Its the HP and the MM that blow them away now, as much as the guns. And the ability of the tier 10 mediums (Bat, Leo1, 62A) to fill the same role NEARLY as well, but with almost 2x the HP and better firepower, that makes the LTs less useful. 

 

Since we just ran through some same tier CW, at tiers 5 (Chaffee) tier 7 (T71, WZ-131, Type 62) and 8 (13 90, WZ-132) the LTs were dominant. At tier 9, 132s and 13 90s were still used but more cautiously. A T-54 can approach either of them in speed, vision, camo and beats them in firepower/utility. 

 

But now that we're back to 10s, no more LT dominance. The Bat is the best LT!

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I love to see campinovka in my scouts. I often do one prolonged run to the field, straying further than what the OP is saying, and then go up the hill. In 2 games I had 2500 spot damage in each game. Both were campinovka.

 

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Dunno, bad arty is less useful than bad scout IMO.

 

Whee, I don't think we need more powerful scouts, I think we need bigger maps so they can actually have a chance to get into the enemy rear areas and/or have more than 1 or 2 well-known spots per map to scout from.

 

Good point. But still, BCs will dominate tier 10 CWs as scouts. Nothing can replace it.

 

However, there were instances where LTs were used such as the T-50-2. Back in PBKAC on Abbey, (PBKAC back then was relatively young and small and was the source of "lolcats" and "ICANHAZCHEESEBURGER" memes created by _grenadier_) we used a fast T-50-2 scout rush (Agentice was primarily driver of the T-50-2) to quickly eliminate arty via counter battery-ing early game with Object 261s.

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Its the HP and the MM that blow them away now, as much as the guns. And the ability of the tier 10 mediums (Bat, Leo1, 62A) to fill the same role NEARLY as well, but with almost 2x the HP and better firepower, that makes the LTs less useful. 

 

Indeed.  It's part of the issue with designing a tier 10 light.  Should it be something even faster and more agile than the bat/leo, but also more fragile?  Something that could be at max speed in seconds, while bleeding very little speed in turns?  Something that is nigh unhittable?  And if so, how do you arm it?  With that degree of speed/agility, many guns are potentially OP.  But many guns would simply be too weak, even on such a mythical frame.  Balance would be a nightmare. 

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 They are team ENABLERs but not team carriers.

 

Unfortunately many times it goes totally wasted.  They are the most important tank and I have carried my number of games in them as well.  The best 'carry' tank would be a good discussion for another thread though!

 

Also when I was referring to 'scouting' I also mean the Bat/Leopard1 or anything that has good vision/camo and a competent driver.

 

Just played Malnikova and we had a Luchs on our team and pinged him the location to go for our Tier 8 battle.  He drove down the middle of the field instead.  248 WIN.  *sigh*

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Also when I was referring to 'scouting' I also mean the Bat/Leopard1 or anything that has good vision/camo and a competent driver.

 

Anything?

 

 

Victory!

Map:  Lakeville

Date: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 1:39:11 AM

Vehicle: ISU-152

Exp: 1,794 + Credits: 104,238

Achievements: : Brothers in Arms, Scout

 

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I really feel like scouts need a camo buff or a view buff, atm I am pretty sure camo netted TDs spot a scout before a scout can overcome the camo factor on the net. It's even worse if the TD has brought a twig with a leaf or 2 and stuck it in the ground infront of him.

 

I used to be able to spot across malinovka standard battle spawn without being spotted myself, but now I seem to always lose the vision battle, I can't seem to get close enough to spot without being spotted myself.

 

active scouting is really hard to pull off now, while passive scouting is easier IF you can get to the passive scout location unspotted, which can be challenging sometimes.

 

 

the lower tier scouts don't hold up to the high tier scouts even if they get the same matchmaking (i.e. a T-50-2 will see tier 10-12 matches opposite WZ-132 and 13 90, and will be at a significant disadvantage, can't take a shell and live, can't match enemy scout vision, can't match enemy scout firepower etc. yet the matchmaker doesn't weigh them very differently.)

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When multiple light tanks on your team refuse to do a quick field spot on malinovka a puppy dies. No seriously I hate that shit it's so easy and simple. Then they yolo suicide before anyone is ready to shoot or they defend arty all came.

 

Three rivals for a close second:

 

Mountain pass NW spawn, nobody lights the southern crossing.

Highway, NE spawn, nobody lights the J/K line.

Arctic region, either side, nobody lights the approach to idiot's corner.

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Three rivals for a close second:

 

Mountain pass NW spawn, nobody lights the southern crossing.

Highway, NE spawn, nobody lights the J/K line.

Arctic region, either side, nobody lights the approach to idiot's corner.

 

These are not really obvious to an average player.  I gave you a +1 for mentioning them, but it would be really nice to have a bigger list of "these spots need to be lit up" for every map.

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 it would be really nice to have a bigger list of "these spots need to be lit up" for every map.

 

Challenge considered. 

 

 

Though, Taz probably has this on his site already. 

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These are not really obvious to an average player.  I gave you a +1 for mentioning them, but it would be really nice to have a bigger list of "these spots need to be lit up" for every map.

 

I commissioned over 100 WZ-132 replays from Garbad during 8.4 or 8.5. Deus did for the T-62A which functions in a similar role. You could have learned a good scouting spot for every single map from those replays (which are still locate-able and can be viewed with a little extra effort). You should find those challenges and watch every single one of them on 2x or 4x speed, taking notes of good scouting locations. 

 

I am not kidding. 

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Is there a way to install an older(duplicate) version of the game, if one did not think ahead of time to keep an 8.5 or 8.4 version?

 

Proving that I am not totally useless, this appears to be a useful tool/mod to replay old versions of well er, replays:

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/250754-rcpack-for-86-full-support-for-85-84-83-limited-support-for-82-81-80-more-coming-soon/

 

 

NOTE: Be careful of the download site this guy uses--it was misleading as snot (can't blame him, free hosting of large files is difficult).  I say that as a saavy internet user--it tries to make you download some accelerator--make sure you are getting the 'rar' file and not a "Download.exe"

 

Download is VERRRRRRY slow.  But probably worth it.

 

YMMV.

Edited by CrazyScientist

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