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Will you play WOWS on release?  

142 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you play WOWS on release?

    • Yes. I'm excited for the release and will play a lot.
    • Yeah, a little. But not as much as WOT.
    • I don't know/am not sure yet/it depends.
    • No, its not that interesting but I might dabble.
    • No, fuck this shit. Russian navy bias lol?


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I know one thing, and only one about CVs.  When coordinated, they are extremely OP.  My fear is this, once the game goes live, and you can do Team Battles or anything where you can coordinate your team, 2+ carriers will wreck shit.

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Honestly, auto-attack should be removed from CVs.  Force bad players to either adapt, or be complete shit - more even than usual.

no pls, I like it when they just auto attack.

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Higher tiers I'm liking the game less and less.  Torpedo spam is obnoxious.  WAAAAAAYYYYY too much capfast.  Still not seeing much depth, but I would still like to play organized teams and see how it goes.

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I know one thing, and only one about CVs.  When coordinated, they are extremely OP.  My fear is this, once the game goes live, and you can do Team Battles or anything where you can coordinate your team, 2+ carriers will wreck shit.

 

The other side of the coin is that in coordinated play, you will be able to sail in AA formations with people coordinating the timing of the AA ability so somebody always has one ready, for example.

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The other side of the coin is that in coordinated play, you will be able to sail in AA formations with people coordinating the timing of the AA ability so somebody always has one ready, for example.

2 carrier formations can have 4+ torp squadrons in the air.  What amount of AA will protect against that all coming in at once?  How much of your forces are you going to dedicate to AA because of this threat?

 

Do you see the problem yet?  Because of the overwhelming amount of well placed torps that multiple carriers can project, you are forced to protect against it. 

 

Carriers make the game unfun, no different than arty.  If DD's get their torps off and hit me, it is a well done to them for being gutsy and timing it right.  How can I congratulate carriers?  Congrats on manual aim I guess...

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Coordinated AA can be very effective against torp squadrons.  Each CA targets a different squadron, and a combination of the AA abilities can result in all four TB squads doing their 'panic spread' thing, which means at best a couple torps might hit.  The cost for that?

 

Most, if not all, of those torp planes.

Granted, this kind of coordination will only happen in Divisions or Clan type situations.

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Coordinated AA can be very effective against torp squadrons.  Each CA targets a different squadron, and a combination of the AA abilities can result in all four TB squads doing their 'panic spread' thing, which means at best a couple torps might hit.  The cost for that?

 

Most, if not all, of those torp planes.

Granted, this kind of coordination will only happen in Divisions or Clan type situations.

 

Already addressed in this very forum no less:

 

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Already addressed in this very forum no less:

 

 

and that's why you time it so somebody always has the ability ready.  only one cruiser in an escorting group needs to activate it to screw up EVERY squad's attack inside a 5 km radius.  we're discussing coordinated play, right?  and don't discount the fact that your team should have two carriers also, with at least one squad of fighters each (two if at higher tiers).

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and that's why you time it so somebody always has the ability ready.  only one cruiser in an escorting group needs to activate it to screw up EVERY squad's attack inside a 5 km radius.  we're discussing coordinated play, right?  and don't discount the fact that your team should have two carriers also, with at least one squad of fighters each (two if at higher tiers).

See and here is the crux:  If people think carrier torps are useless then nobody would field carriers, instead, you agree that your team should have 2 carriers as well... which indicates that they are NOT useless.  I know you did not argue with me tedster, I am using your response as ammo that coordinated carriers are so fucking OP that you have to design counters to it or die from it.

 

...

 

Think about this one, why did they remove the ability to division with 2 carriers?  Was it strictly because of number of carriers or my opinion in pub play... 2 coordinated carriers is NO FUN to play against.  Can a division of cruisers protect themselves, sure... the other players on your team are torp food.  Have fun of taking on the remaining opponents in your cruisers while the rest of your team is on the bottom of the ocean.

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I'm still not sold on carriers being all that OP.  I've been tracking top 4 XP per winning side where each team has at least 1 carrier for quite a while and carriers haven't started showing up near the top til upper tiers (7+).  Even then they're not showing up more often than they should given they make up at most 1/6 of the team.

 

First of all carriers are only dangerous to battleships and afk players.  If you're hit in a cruiser or destroyer you're just really bad.  Upper tier battleships (I'm at the Fuso currently) start to get decent enough AAA that they can interfere enough with incoming attacks to minimize damage taken (not prevent it, but minimize it).

 

The only time in a pub setting where I see a battleship truly screwed is where he's basically the lone survivor against 4 torp plane runs coming in at once.  That's not carriers being OP but that player, his team, or a combination thereof being bad and losing the match.  Early on in a game, with friendly cruisers and fighter coverage, such a run on a battleship should be hard to pull off.

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Most carriers are fucking terrible though.  And the skill ceiling for carriers is actually pretty high, as well as having a pretty low floor.  from what I can tell they have the widest gap between skilled and shit players,  arguably DDs have about the same, but the usefulness of a good CV outweighs the DD.

 

A terrible CV player is literally the least threatening thing in the game.  He's just going to lose all his planes and fire terrible spreads.  .

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First of all carriers are only dangerous to battleships and afk players.  If you're hit in a cruiser or destroyer you're just really bad.  Upper tier battleships (I'm at the Fuso currently) start to get decent enough AAA that they can interfere enough with incoming attacks to minimize damage taken (not prevent it, but minimize it).

False, You're assuming too many things for that statement to be true. If I'm in a CA/CL having to avoid only 1 torp spread then that's easy. If it's 2 then it's more dependent on the of the direction of the spreads and how well I am at timing with respect to the ship I'm driving to avoid them. If it's 3 or more, then I'm likely to eat a few torps; however, that clearly means I did something to become a high value target to the CV player. This is with AA ability on, and if the player is bad at manual drop. If they're good at manual drop and my AA ability is on, I may get away with no hits, but that depends.

 

Also, the AA ability only applies to cruisers tier 5-6 and up.

 

It's hard to get hit by torp planes or dive bombers in a DD, but it's possible if the CV player is good at manual drop and timing. Assuming of course the DD has their AA on when they see planes.

 

Fuso AA is OP at the moment, so I wouldn't use it to describe how good BB AA is.

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False, You're assuming too many things for that statement to be true. If I'm in a CA/CL having to avoid only 1 torp spread then that's easy. If it's 2 then it's more dependent on the of the direction of the spreads and how well I am at timing with respect to the ship I'm driving to avoid them. If it's 3 or more, then I'm likely to eat a few torps; however, that clearly means I did something to become a high value target to the CV player. This is with AA ability on, and if the player is bad at manual drop. If they're good at manual drop and my AA ability is on, I may get away with no hits, but that depends.

 

Also, the AA ability only applies to cruisers tier 5-6 and up.

 

It's hard to get hit by torp planes or dive bombers in a DD, but it's possible if the CV player is good at manual drop and timing. Assuming of course the DD has their AA on when they see planes.

 

Fuso AA is OP at the moment, so I wouldn't use it to describe how good BB AA is.

If an enemy CV is wasting multiple torp runs on me and I'm in a tier 4 cruiser or higher that's a good thing (it's like arty trying to hit a moving scout in WoT when friendly heavies are lit and not moving).  At lower tiers I'm maneuverable enough against the slow enemy torp planes that it'll take forever to get a good angle on me and also maneuverable enough to dodge most if not all that hit the water.  Higher tier I have enough AAA to kill several of their planes.  In some games I've seen carriers are lucky to get 2 torp runs off before a cap is underway by targets they'll struggle to hit.  When in that CV myself I make sure I go after what I know I have a high probability to hit in those early runs.

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A simple hammer and anvil torpedo attack will undo most BBs as they are ponderous in turning. One squad drops from port bow, the other on a slight delay from starboard bow, ideally once the target had committed to turning into or away from the 1st torps and you feed him the 2nd spread at an angle he is unlikely to be able to dodge.

 

one thing I find kind of wonky, if a TB gets shot down on the way to the target, that leaves a 'hole' in the spread, which in the case of smaller ships (CA/CL) gives them a pretty easy dodge window, even with a good co-ordination of drops. I guess the "balance" is, you get that one drop and then the planes have to fly back to their carriers. In the opening stages, I assume most carriers get to the corners of the map...if they stay there and don't move as the main battle line moves, they don't get as many strikes off as they could....but it is a balance of risk, get too close and a DD might come screaming in and torpedo you into oblivion....I think the CV's might be a little too robust, in reality, 3-4 torpedo hits delivered at the same time was often enough to sink one...

 

But there is a reason they stopped building BB's in the middle of WW2, air power is the be all and end of all of naval warfare.

 

I think carriers, like most things, are only OP in skilled hands...auto aiming drops is like auto aiming at a heavy in WoT...generally doesn't work out too well and does minimal damage.

 

In reality, carriers would hold their planes until the other carriers were spotted, they would never attack a BB if they knew there was a carrier in the vicinity.

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I'm finding that a decently led pair of torp drops will take out or cripple a BB, you have to drop at basically minimum range or they'll be able to avoid. Only issue comes in with the torps not arming at the start of the rectangle, so a couple of Fuso's have gotten lucky when my torps hit before arming. Source, at least 7 Fusos deleted before they were in range of anything.

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I'm still not sold on carriers being all that OP.  I've been tracking top 4 XP per winning side where each team has at least 1 carrier for quite a while and carriers haven't started showing up near the top til upper tiers (7+).  Even then they're not showing up more often than they should given they make up at most 1/6 of the team.

 

First of all carriers are only dangerous to battleships and afk players.  If you're hit in a cruiser or destroyer you're just really bad.  Upper tier battleships (I'm at the Fuso currently) start to get decent enough AAA that they can interfere enough with incoming attacks to minimize damage taken (not prevent it, but minimize it).

 

The only time in a pub setting where I see a battleship truly screwed is where he's basically the lone survivor against 4 torp plane runs coming in at once.  That's not carriers being OP but that player, his team, or a combination thereof being bad and losing the match.  Early on in a game, with friendly cruisers and fighter coverage, such a run on a battleship should be hard to pull off.

 

I'd check win rates rather than XP per game, but maybe I'm wrong on that? How reflective do we think xp/game is of performance at the moment?

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I'd check win rates rather than XP per game, but maybe I'm wrong on that? How reflective do we think xp/game is of performance at the moment?

Unfortunately there's no site like vbaddict to check win rates and other stats.  Tracking XP was something simple I could do myself while playing (and this was before I found out about the ability to look up others on your own CB server).  Initial impression seems to be that it's about as valuable a measure as it is in WoT (so... while it has its uses it also has plenty of flaws).

 

The results were pretty understandable (I stopped tracking about 2 weeks ago) given the current state of the CB: cruisers were the most dominant ship as measured by XP, then battleships, with carriers and destroyers even further behind.

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1. I think the CV's might be a little too robust, in reality, 3-4 torpedo hits delivered at the same time was often enough to sink one...

 

2. But there is a reason they stopped building BB's in the middle of WW2, air power is the be all and end of all of naval warfare.

 

3. I think carriers, like most things, are only OP in skilled hands...auto aiming drops is like auto aiming at a heavy in WoT...generally doesn't work out too well and does minimal damage.

 

4.In reality, carriers would hold their planes until the other carriers were spotted, they would never attack a BB if they knew there was a carrier in the vicinity.

 

 

1. Not necessarily so. U.S. carriers were mostly set on fire due to bombs or kamakaze attacks. And the U.S. had very little success with torpedos (witness the battle of Midway) against any ship. Torpedo bombers were slow and vulnerable, and had to get in very close to make very well aimed attacks with a lot of torpedos in the water, in order to get even a relatively poor hit ratio. Unescorted torpedo bombers were, for the most part, easy pickings for fighters, and once they were low and slow enough to get into a torpedo run, for anti-aircraft batteries. All of Torpedo 8 was shot down, with only George Gay surviving, at Midway, with no hits. Not sure the U.S. even scored a torpedo hit with any of the 3 torpedo squadrons. And the U.S. dominated that battle for the most part.

 

2. Actually, the later U.S. battleships were designed, and then regularly updated, to be anti-aircraft platforms. The most modern of them were good at it. It's one reason the U.S. sacrificed some armor for speed, in order to have battleships be fast enough to stay with carriers and screen for them. Destroyers didn't really even have enough firepower to defend themselves, cruisers were iffy, but later U.S. battleships could fill the air with a steel umbrella, eventually the Japanese resorted to suicide attacks of one form or another just to get hits.

 

3. If any player can consistently get reliable torpedo hits against a decent enemy player, provided the "victim" isn't alone or nearly alone, and very slow, then topedo bombers are fairly OP compared to reality.

 

4. That's somewhat true, in some cases. But, most often, carrier squadrons were launched a couple of scouts first, maybe, attack planes shortly after, and then fighters, to escort the attack groups. Then another wing of fighters usually launched even later, as a CAP (combat air patrol) to protect the fleet. Attack planes were regularly and often used to actively search for the enemy in likely areas. Outside of PBY scout amphib planes at Midway doing early spotting, it was attack planes that found the Japanese at both Coral Sea and Midway, for example.

 

By late 1942, the U.S. considered torpedo bombers to be almost completely obsolete. At best they were a decoy to keep the ememy from concentrating on the dive bombers.

 

I can see dive bombers being pretty powerful, but if torpedo bombers are all that and a bag of chips, then something is really wrong.

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I'm in the process of reading Norman Friedman's US CV book, and fairly certain some office calculated that an Essex had a high probability of sinking after 3 torp hits to one side, and some modification would increase that estimate to four huts on one side.

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