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Star Wars: Episode VII, The Force Awakens...

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On the second watch I *think* I figured out some of those things...

ok, i can buy that.  true or not at least it is the first thing that sounds plausible.  

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I really hope we see Jar Jar come back as a Sith lord. Dead serious. That said, the only part of this movie I genuinely enjoyed was when doctor lady told Chewy how brave he was. Made me laugh.

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Judging by some things I read, the saber was deliberately made to be the old blue.  The prop was constructed to be the same.  I doubt someone just forgot...

 

If memory serves, one of the EU storylines involved Luke's hand and saber being recovered and used to create a clone.  Even though those stories have been thrown out, they still establish a few ideas for the new movies to build on.  Hell, a Solo kid turning to the darkside was an EU plotline as well.  Some of your theories were in there as well.  

Joy. So you're saying I could have been an EU hack writer if I tried :-)

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Bespin is, after all, a gas giant planet so there would be literally no way to get Luke's first lightsabre back, it having been crushing by the pressure of the atmosphere further down.

it may not have fallen outside of Cloud City, might have just landed in a nook or something similar at the bottom somewhere out of sheer coincidence.

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it may not have fallen outside of Cloud City, might have just landed in a nook or something similar at the bottom somewhere out of sheer coincidence.

Seems like a bitch of a stretch...

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Seems like a bitch of a stretch...

Well, it's also a bit of a stretch to think that Luke would fly through a tunnel instead of getting splattered against the wall, gently land after a small slide, and then precisely where he stops there just happens to be a trapdoor/tunnel with an aerial directly beneath it.

It's not like anything is grounded in reality.

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Judging by some things I read, the saber was deliberately made to be the old blue.  The prop was constructed to be the same.  I doubt someone just forgot...

 

If memory serves, one of the EU storylines involved Luke's hand and saber being recovered and used to create a clone.  Even though those stories have been thrown out, they still establish a few ideas for the new movies to build on.  Hell, a Solo kid turning to the darkside was an EU plotline as well.  Some of your theories were in there as well.  

Yup and yup because the saber is mentioned as having been both Anakin's and Luke's. 

In the books the thing is also recovered, the clone Luuke wields it in the emperor's trophy house. Anthony Zahn wrote some pretty good books. 

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Yeah, I thought that was one of the Zahn books, but it's been 15+ years since I read it.

Thinking more on the saber, I'd say a better idea would have been to have recovering it be part of Rey's trials.  Maybe I'm thinking more in a video game than movie sense.  

 

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Zahn is worth re-reading!  

In book or game storyline that makes sense but in movie stuff has to move... to have a saber fight two parties need to have a saber and not 3 movies from now.

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He's automatically on the Dark Side for appearing with, working with, acting with, talking to, having any sort of interaction with, Lena Dunham.

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On the second watch I *think* I figured out some of those things. Some of this is guess-work but given the context I think it may be fairly accurate:

  • After ROTJ the Empire basically collapsed into its constituent parts.
  • Some of those parts remained loyal to the Empire leading to the First Order, a kind of mini-Empire with much less power than the old Empire.
  • The Republic was a single-system government derived from one of those parts run by people that had been involved with the Rebel Alliance from the original films.
  • Being derived from the Rebel Alliance, the Republic inherited its fleet and military components.
  • The Republic was bank-rolling the Resistance.
  • The Resistance is a small, deniable guerilla force the Republic was using to try and get more systems out from under the thumb of the First Order.
  • The Republic couldn't engage with the New Order directly as they lacked the necessary military force to do so and possibly some people within the Republic just wanted to chillax and enjoy their freedom.
  • The First Order got sick and tired of being poked continually by the Resistance and decided the best way to deal with them was to wipe out their backers, The Republic.
  • The First Order wiped out the Republic with the Starkiller, destroying the old Rebel Alliance fleet in the process and leaving the Resistance in a very tight spot.

I feel like this is a pretty logical explanation for the whole Republic/Resistance WTF as well as covering why the New Order decides to nuke the Republic and also dealing with the issue with the Resistance being pretty undergunned.

With that said, it is a bit of a stretch and there's some amount of inference going on.

On the subject of the lightsabre, I honestly think someone working on the film just forgot that Luke lost his first Blue lightsabre on Bespin and made his own Green one before ROTJ. As a result, the lightsabre in FA is just entirely the wrong colour. Bespin is, after all, a gas giant planet so there would be literally no way to get Luke's first lightsabre back, it having been crushing by the pressure of the atmosphere further down.

 

 

Judging by some things I read, the saber was deliberately made to be the old blue.  The prop was constructed to be the same.  I doubt someone just forgot...

 

If memory serves, one of the EU storylines involved Luke's hand and saber being recovered and used to create a clone.  Even though those stories have been thrown out, they still establish a few ideas for the new movies to build on.  Hell, a Solo kid turning to the darkside was an EU plotline as well.  Some of your theories were in there as well.  

Oddly enough, I remember something similar where Vader had recovered Luke's old lightsaber - an Ugnaught or somebody found it in the depths of Cloud City, and turned it in.  Vader had Kenobi's lightsaber as well.

The bit about Luke being cloned was in those Zahn books.  Appallingly enough, the gimmick there was they stuck an extra "u" in the middle of the names of clones - Luke's clone was named "Luuke", and so forth.  I just shook my head and thought "what if they cloned somebody whose name contains no 'u'?"

 But there's no reason to assume Luke's lightsaber fell out of Cloud City, as opposed to just falling into its depths.

 

Joy. So you're saying I could have been an EU hack writer if I tried :-)

Don't be redundant. :P

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I am also in the well-worth-seeing-but-not-great camp. I saw the original in 1977 and barely paid attention to anything after.I liked the relatively organic look of the present film. The new actors are all fine, especially Daisy Ridley -- a star is born there for sure. I liked the inspiring diversity of the present cast.

Others have pointed out various macro- and micro-quirks in the story. Personally, I am not concerned with how this film might not have meshed with various films that are unfamiliar to me. But I certainly agree that this film, in and of itself, was hard to follow at various points. I trust that much will be explained in subsequent entries.

One thing I haven't noticed in this thread, unless I missed it, was any comment on Harrison Ford. I thought that he was over the hill for the role and that his movements were painful to watch in the action scenes. (Spolier alert: I can see why he was killed off.)

Best line of the film for me: "You've changed your hairdo."

 

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"Hard to follow" is apparently a J.J. Abrams hallmark, if the two Star Trek reboots are anything to go by.  My theory is that he's good at being a creative guy in terms of inventing scenes and events he wants to see on the screen, but a shit writer in terms of doing the nuts and bolts work of knitting it all together in a way that flows.

He appears to have the artistic ability but little skill with his craft, which indicates laziness to me.

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Finally got around to seeing this and it was pretty much what I expected. Not amazing, but well worth the ticket price.

I rather like JJ Abrams' hyperactive style. Always figured it'd fit Star Wars better than Star Trek after seeing those, and this proved me right. Not sure where people are getting "hard to follow" with his films though. The plot is certainly not the priority and you have to make the occasional leap with it, but it works well in a movie that never wants to let off the gas for more than a few moments.

Acting-wise it was good, although I agree that Harrison Ford might wanna consider retirement. Or at least not doing action movies anymore, because goddamn. When Adam Driver first took the mask off I kinda immediately hated him and figured he could never pull off a convincing villain, but he really sold the (grand)daddy-issues wannabe baddie. Daisy Ridley was the star though and I'll be surprised if she doesn't have a great career ahead of her.

Edit: Also lol
 

uncle lando said my helmet made me look like a depressed lampshade and then everyone laughed and high-fived him i hate this family so much

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I really liked the traitor-bashing stormtrooper. Dude's body language when pulls out his cattleprod or whatever is just so happy. He probably got made fun of for not getting issued a blaster and he's all "who's laughing now bitches? LET'S FUCKING DO THIS!" over the comms.

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My theory: Ben was brainwashed.  Not tempted or seduced to the Dark Side, but literally brainwashed.  He isn't Snoke's trusted (well, mostly trusted) lieutenant like Vader was; that's Blondie McSpacenazi's role.  Kylo Ren is a tool to Snoke, nothing more.  When Snoke tells McSpacenazi to bring Ren back "to continue his training", he means for more brainwashing, because Ben hesitated before killing his father.

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