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The Ask Ectar Some Questions Thread

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Recently on the NA server (unaware of issues on other servers) there was/is a bug going around which caused players to NOT load into a battle for the campaign. 

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/447118-players-not-loading-into-campaign-battles/

 

Is there discussion about penalties for said users/abusers of said bug, and compensation for those players being abused by it, and how would this be addressed in the future if a similar situation would appear which greatly skewed competition?

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I think the full repair cost they have to pay now is adequate punishment. It's not just arty players that do this however.

 

That's not a punishment, it's fixing an exploit. A punishment would be if suiciding had any extra negative consequences at all over being killed by the enemy team.

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What's your thoughts on the pen nerfs for mediums?

Personally I think it'll slow down game play and go hand in glove with the obvious corridor meta to remove layers of difficulty in the game

 

I think sometimes it's rather interesting to see how certain elements of the community react. Only recently people were complaining there is no point to playing heavy tanks as mediums have the speed/agility AND the guns.  Now it's not "Hey look at how this opens up other vehicles" but rather "Omg, this is so bad, lets look at all the negative stuff from it" -  Elements of the community will agree the game is unbalanced, but they'll blame different reasons.  Personally I always felt meds needed toned back somewhat as the advantages of heavies were being negated. "What use is armour when everyone can pen you?" was the common question.  Now the immediate usual grumbles just switch to premium ammo.  Next month arty is probably to blame and then I'm sure MM will get it's turn.  The circle never ends for some people.

 

I predicated ages ago when arty was nerfed that people would just turn to TD's instead. If TD's get changed then it's heavies which people will complain about and how having armour is unfair. If not that then it's unfair how lights are just as good as mediums. 

 

What are your favorite tiers to play and why?

 

I used to like tier 6 as it was the first tier that defined roles and had multiple different options and playstyles. Now it's probably tier 9 as I like the Conqueror, E75 and Cent 7/1

 

That's not a punishment, it's fixing an exploit. A punishment would be if suiciding had any extra negative consequences at all over being killed by the enemy team.

 

I didn't want to use those words exactly, but yeah I felt it was an exploit (more of a oversight on our part). I pushed hard to get that changed to stop players abusing it and was glad to see the change added.

 

Don't you ever get tired people whining about gold rounds?

 

I get tired of a lot of stuff recently. 

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I predicated ages ago when arty was nerfed that people would just turn to TD's instead. If TD's get changed then it's heavies which people will complain about and how having armour is unfair. If not that then it's unfair how lights are just as good as mediums. 

I appreciate that the game is living and changing.  You may have been right that the complaining would change to TDs, but the later TD nerfs did make the game better.

I miss the T-50-2, but I don't miss the days prior to sprem, or the early M4 derp days of sprem.  I certainly wouldn't want to revert to the early days just to drive the dash-2 again.  

Do you have a predictions/desires for the next rebalance after mediums become more reasonable?  How do you feel about the power level of lights in public matches currently?  

 

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I think sometimes it's rather interesting to see how certain elements of the community react. Only recently people were complaining there is no point to playing heavy tanks as mediums have the speed/agility AND the guns.  Now it's not "Hey look at how this opens up other vehicles" but rather "Omg, this is so bad, lets look at all the negative stuff from it" -  Elements of the community will agree the game is unbalanced, but they'll blame different reasons.  Personally I always felt meds needed toned back somewhat as the advantages of heavies were being negated. "What use is armour when everyone can pen you?" was the common question.  Now the immediate usual grumbles just switch to premium ammo.  Next month arty is probably to blame and then I'm sure MM will get it's turn.  The circle never ends for some people.

 

I predicated ages ago when arty was nerfed that people would just turn to TD's instead. If TD's get changed then it's heavies which people will complain about and how having armour is unfair. If not that then it's unfair how lights are just as good as mediums. 

this of course leads to the question that WG has never been able to even address: why do people with no understanding of the game have the ear of the devs in the first place? If someone doesn't comprehend the mechanics and their interactions with each other, what possible use could their input have in making the game more balanced and enjoyable?

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So... how come the devs don't come by wotlabs and learn something anway?

Do they think we're just a bunch of hackers or goldspammers??

No, my guess is that they are looking at it in a very shortsighted manner, since as far as this game is concerned they understand the causes and effects as well as a light blue at very best. They see it as "all these players are complaining about x so we should change x and they vastly outnumber the really good players saying that x is the result of y and we should change y." All it takes is a bit of critical thought, but they don't even bother asking why the best players say what they say; they just see us as a minority, an outlier, and therefore not a cash cow they can milk. That's my take on it, maybe Ectar is privy to a different perspective from the inside.

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No, my guess is that they are looking at it in a very shortsighted manner, since as far as this game is concerned they understand the causes and effects as well as a light blue at very best. 

Holy shit, can you get over yourself? They mine a massive amount of data regarding the game. You just happen to be good at playing it, which contrary to popular belief doesn't make you an expert in game design or remotely informed on anything beyond the interests of the top 0.1%.

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Holy shit, can you get over yourself? They mine a massive amount of data regarding the game. You just happen to be good at playing it, which contrary to popular belief doesn't make you an expert in game design or remotely informed on anything beyond the interests of the top 0.1%.

For some reason the forum is bugged and I can't neg shitters, but jesus christ.

Someone who knows the game well enough that they can directly observe trends in the field isn't better informed than an officeworker who tries to come to conclusions from vague data sheets that tell next to nothing besides how well the average pubbie can do in a tank? You get over yourself.

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For some reason the forum is bugged and I can't neg shitters, but jesus christ.

Someone who knows the game well enough that they can directly observe trends in the field isn't better informed than an officeworker who tries to come to conclusions from vague data sheets that tell next to nothing besides how well the average pubbie can do in a tank? You get over yourself.

No, they're not. Because all they have is their own experience, which is filtered through various biases and bears very little resemblance to the needs of the game as a whole. And I don't need to get over myself, I'm not claiming any great accomplishment for myself. I'm just saying that I'm far more likely to trust the successful publishers of the massively lucrative game who have access to all the data and have a vested financial interest in getting it right than some random on the internet whose only credential is playing the game well and who might be 12 for all I know.

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It boils down to this...

Does Wargaming want to cater to the lowest common denominator for extra profit?

Or do they want to follow the Blizzard and Starcraft method of balancing and balance for the top players?

Wargaming is gonna do what they think will get them the most profit. And that's their choice. And I'm ok with that. I play this game to have fun. If I stop having fun I'll stop playing and spending money on it. It's simple. Not something to get amazingly worked up over.

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Holy shit, can you get over yourself? They mine a massive amount of data regarding the game. You just happen to be good at playing it, which contrary to popular belief doesn't make you an expert in game design or remotely informed on anything beyond the interests of the top 0.1%.

No, they're not. Because all they have is their own experience, which is filtered through various biases and bears very little resemblance to the needs of the game as a whole. And I don't need to get over myself, I'm not claiming any great accomplishment for myself. I'm just saying that I'm far more likely to trust the successful publishers of the massively lucrative game who have access to all the data and have a vested financial interest in getting it right than some random on the internet whose only credential is playing the game well and who might be 12 for all I know.

So I just now saw this nonsense and in the spirit of civility, the only response to your rage I'm going to post is please at least make an effort to maintain some facsimile of objectivity in a place like this. We're here to discuss the game in an intelligent manner. Your hysterical white-knighting can go fornicate itself with re-bar.

As to the point I think you were TRYING to make, look at it reasonably:

The best players, for the most part, are the best because of their understanding of the mechanics and how they interact with each other. Everything from armor and pen mechanics, to the tendencies of every skill level player in specific tanks. Being aware of these factors is EXACTLY what makes the best stand out. Massive amounts of experience and a reflexive understanding of how the game works at all levels, from basic (spotting, camo, pen, damage) to complex (where X player in Y tank is likely to go on Z map) by definition means that we see the complex interactions of the mechanics much more clearly than an average player. The fact that these mechanics are so buried and difficult to work out in the first place is an entirely different issue with the game that WG is very aware of.

When we identify balance problems, it is usually the result of having exploited them ourselves, and there is no better source of information on the issue than those who know it first hand. A 45%er yoloing hill on prokh in a Maus is not someone who understands armor use or tactics, and is therefore incapable of giving useful feedback on how to improve the game in those respects. The 65%er sitting in the bush in a 140 spamming HEAT through his turret is much more qualified to say what is wrong with the game in that situation.

whose only credential is playing the game well and who might be 12 for all I know.

This is particularly troublesome to me. Completely ignoring the fact that my IRL identity is no secret around this place, from my age to my professional life, you flat out state that someone who is good at the game isn't the best resource for obtaining balance feedback from. Who the hell better to get it from? Someone who can't understand why his KV-2 got picked apart by the invisible hacker Hellcat? Or someone who knows how to be that invisible hacker Hellcat?

 

Sorry for shitting up your thread, Ectar. Would still be interested in your thoughts on the original question, if you feel like divulging any insight.

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Holy shit, can you get over yourself? Err...No

You just happen to be good at playing it,  <- someone to listen to??

which contrary to popular belief <- server average states that people should listen to those who are better than them

doesn't make you an expert Yes it does

in game design or remotely informed on anything beyond the interests of the top 0.1%. Again, makes that person an expert 

Would :downboat: is possible, but forum is broke

Shfty©

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So I just now saw this nonsense and in the spirit of civility, the only response to your rage I'm going to post is please at least make an effort to maintain some facsimile of objectivity in a place like this. We're here to discuss the game in an intelligent manner. Your hysterical white-knighting can go fornicate itself with re-bar.

As to the point I think you were TRYING to make, look at it reasonably:

The best players, for the most part, are the best because of their understanding of the mechanics and how they interact with each other. Everything from armor and pen mechanics, to the tendencies of every skill level player in specific tanks. Being aware of these factors is EXACTLY what makes the best stand out. Massive amounts of experience and a reflexive understanding of how the game works at all levels, from basic (spotting, camo, pen, damage) to complex (where X player in Y tank is likely to go on Z map) by definition means that we see the complex interactions of the mechanics much more clearly than an average player. The fact that these mechanics are so buried and difficult to work out in the first place is an entirely different issue with the game that WG is very aware of.

When we identify balance problems, it is usually the result of having exploited them ourselves, and there is no better source of information on the issue than those who know it first hand. A 45%er yoloing hill on prokh in a Maus is not someone who understands armor use or tactics, and is therefore incapable of giving useful feedback on how to improve the game in those respects. The 65%er sitting in the bush in a 140 spamming HEAT through his turret is much more qualified to say what is wrong with the game in that situation.

This is particularly troublesome to me. Completely ignoring the fact that my IRL identity is no secret around this place, from my age to my professional life, you flat out state that someone who is good at the game isn't the best resource for obtaining balance feedback from. Who the hell better to get it from? Someone who can't understand why his KV-2 got picked apart by the invisible hacker Hellcat? Or someone who knows how to be that invisible hacker Hellcat?

 

Sorry for shitting up your thread, Ectar. Would still be interested in your thoughts on the original question, if you feel like divulging any insight.

Rage? White-knighting? Please. I've been perfectly calm the whole time, I'm just pointing out that consuming something and creating it are not the same thing and do not imply the same skillset (Lewis Hamilton is not an auto engineer) or interests. Balancing the game means caring more about the "45% shitters" than you, because there are literally thousands of them for every one of you. I haven't dug up your IRL identity because unless your IRL work is directly applicable to what WG are trying to do it's completely irrelevant to me and to what we're discussing. 

WG have all the data your stats are built on and more besides. The best people to get balance feedback from are everyone, not the smallest statistically-insignificant minority who can't even remember what it's like to not be purple because the Dunning-Kruger effect cuts both ways and characterize other players as "45% shitters". That turn of phrase betrays a need to get over yourself. You totally fail to acknowledge that in order to be purple you've already made yourself a statistically-irrelevant corner case when considering game balance, and yet this forum is literally full of arguments that disproportionately serve the interests of the top 1%, like completely removing arty. 

If you've got something better to fall back on than "but muh stats" I'm happy to carry on the discussion elsewhere, for fear of further "shitting up Ectar's thread", as you so charmingly put it.

 

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At this point I can only assume that you are either intentionally ignoring the actual point I made, or incapable of understanding it in the first place. Either way, you've crossed well in to the realm of a waste of time. Enjoy your stay.

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At this point I can only assume that you are either intentionally ignoring the actual point I made, or incapable of understanding it in the first place. Either way, you've crossed well in to the realm of a waste of time. Enjoy your stay.

I'm ignoring it because you've been similarly unwilling or unable to justify its predicates: that your qualitative feedback is 1. accurate, 2. unbiased (unlikely, as I pointed out) and 3. of more use to WG than the quantitative feedback of the data they mine on all players. If you can satisfy those, then your experience and knowledge as a player may be of some relevance to the issue. If you can't satisfy those your point is irrelevant no matter how high your WN8, DPG or WR.

 

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@Ectar

My question is:
Are wargaming satisfied with, or even aware of, the amount of swearing, abuse and harassment which can be found quite regularly in public random battles? Does the server log abusive chat messages?
I say this because the amount of people wishing cancer on one-another in game is quite off-putting, to be honest.

 

(Lewis Hamilton is not an auto engineer)

Just to chip in on something that hasn't nothing to do with me - while Hamilton isn't an engineer, the engineer still listens to what Hamilton has to say about the performance of a car because he can feel where its lacking. You can't deny that or you don't listen/watch F1 at all and are making poor assumptions.
You don't ask someone who doesn't know how to best use a machine how to improve it -- you ask someone who, not only DOES know it inside-out, but is on the user end.

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@Ectar

My question is:
Are wargaming satisfied with, or even aware of, the amount of swearing, abuse and harassment which can be found quite regularly in public random battles? Does the server log abusive chat messages?
I say this because the amount of people wishing cancer on one-another in game is quite off-putting, to be honest.

 

Just to chip in on something that hasn't nothing to do with me - while Hamilton isn't an engineer, the engineer still listens to what Hamilton has to say about the performance of a car because he can feel where its lacking. You can't deny that or you don't listen/watch F1 at all and are making poor assumptions.
You don't ask someone who doesn't know how to best use a machine how to improve it -- you ask someone who, not only DOES know it inside-out, but is on the user end.

 

Besides the analogy is wrong. Average Joe doesn't drive F1 cars, he drives Toyota, Ford etc.

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Just to chip in on something that hasn't nothing to do with me - while Hamilton isn't an engineer, the engineer still listens to what Hamilton has to say about the performance of a car because he can feel where its lacking. You can't deny that or you don't listen/watch F1 at all and are making poor assumptions.
You don't ask someone who doesn't know how to best use a machine how to improve it -- you ask someone who, not only DOES know it inside-out, but is on the user end.

 

Absolutely, but only as a supplement to the car's telemetry. When the two contradict, he'll trust the telemetry. And Hamilton doesn't pretend he's better-qualified than the engineers to do their job just because he's a better driver, as per:

No, my guess is that they are looking at it in a very shortsighted manner, since as far as this game is concerned they understand the causes and effects as well as a light blue at very best. 

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 And Hamilton doesn't pretend he's better-qualified than the engineers to do their job just because he's a better driver, as per:

 

And could you point out where I or anyone else said the best players should be sat in front of the dev build to make changes themselves? Or are you finally starting to comprehend the point that was made in the first place?

I have no idea what I'm doing when I look at game code. Just like one of the devs would have no idea how most unicums are able to play the way they do. When the two work together, you get the best and most balanced end result for everyone.

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And could you point out where I or anyone else said the best players should be sat in front of the dev build to make changes themselves? Or are you finally starting to comprehend the point that was made in the first place?

I have no idea what I'm doing when I look at game code. Just like one of the devs would have no idea how most unicums are able to play the way they do. When the two work together, you get the best and most balanced end result for everyone.

And as many people have pointed out (thanks folks!) the analogy is flawed. Let's make it a little more accurate, then. You can still be Lewis Hamilton, because I can see you enjoy that. We're not talking about your race engineers any more though, because they're responsible for something that only you use. We can't even call them the track engineers at Monza, because they're responsible for something only unicums use. Let's make them the Monaco Highways Department, who maintain the roads all the 45% shitters in Monaco have to drive on the other 363 days of the year, just to put you in the proper perspective. How much are they obliged to pay attention to what you have to say about their roads, Lewis?

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