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Tupinambis

So, *something* is gonna happen with premium ammo.

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Heh. Guess long range sniper meds like the leo, that rely on the somewhat high pen and cant brawl close range like its russian counterparts, will be out of the market for a while.

 

Classic WG.

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People need to get a grip. 230 is a low test number like 250 was a high test number. Odds are they'll settle somewhere in between and mediums will be just fine. If you can engage tier 10s frontally with the 12.8 44 L/55 you'll have no issue engaging them with similar pen in tanks with more mobility, accuracy and aim time. People will simply need to learn weak spots to maintain stats or go broke as they rightfully should. Gold will not need to be spammed to be effective.

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Heh. Guess long range sniper meds like the leo, that rely on the somewhat high pen and cant brawl close range like its russian counterparts, will be out of the market for a while.

 

Classic WG.

 

who says they nerf those?

 

pure base on this number it seems all the paper snipers:

- leopard(s)

- brits

- amx-30

- STB

 

keep there high pen, while the heavy like meds M48 (gets armor buff) and E50m, aswell as the all-rounders (ru meds) get a nerf

 

I myself really hope WG will finally use pen as balancing factor (again), same on tier 9, M46, T54 and E50 have low pen and rest good, others have high pen and rest bad

 

gold ammo ruins this balance, but that can be fixed, but giving some tanks good armor / mobility and less pen, while others, like Fv42 are a worse platform, but get high penetration will make stuff much more interesting

 

leopard vs E50m, 270 vs 240 pen

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I think regular rounds in its current state is okay left alone. I wouldn't mind a 10mm~ nerf to pen across the board. So 140/62a/430 gets their penetration reduced to 250~, the nato 105mms to STB levels, etc. 

 

What I do think should happen, and I think very strongly about this, is to drastically nerf premium ammo pen. Nothing should have over 300mm of pen. Beyond that point, there's essentially no point to having armor. It becomes much more difficult to bounce and it punishes players who rely on armor because their enemy just threw a boatload of credits at the game. IT opens up so many more spots to penetration. That's not fair, that's not balanced. On the extreme, I think that tier 10 TDs should not have premium ammo, period, at least higher pen premium ammo. If you can't play with having the best penetration values in the game, that's not the fault of "Oh I don't have enough penetration to Lol through the superstructure of a JPZ E100" that's just you being lazy. Seriously. You have 290~ pen and you're bouncing shots, that's your problem and you're laziness. 420mm of penetration is simply ridiculous.

 

I agree with whoever in this thread said that premium ammo should be there to make weakspot penetrations reliable. Premium ammo should be there to guarantee that your shots will count, not so that you can just negate your opponent's efforts to bounce your shots. 

 

For example, I would make the T-54 HEAT round not the fucking retarded 330, but maybe around a 260~. That way, you can actually penetrate weakspots reliably, but you can't just lol your way through the turret face of an E100.

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who says they nerf those?

 

pure base on this number it seems all the paper snipers:

- leopard(s)

- brits

- amx-30

- STB

 

keep there high pen, while the heavy like meds M48 (gets armor buff) and E50m, aswell as the all-rounders (ru meds) get a nerf

 

I myself really hope WG will finally use pen as balancing factor (again), same on tier 9, M46, T54 and E50 have low pen and rest good, others have high pen and rest bad

 

gold ammo ruins this balance, but that can be fixed, but giving some tanks good armor / mobility and less pen, while others, like Fv42 are a worse platform, but get high penetration will make stuff much more interesting

 

leopard vs E50m, 270 vs 240 pen

 

This is from march, before patch 9.7, when penetration nerfs were first leaked:

 

 

 

-Most arties got a major view range nerf between of 30 and 50 meters;

-Foch 155 aim time buffed from 3 to 2,8s, penetration nerfed from 293 to 272mm;

-Batchat got a stabilization buff (accuracy on the move improved by 12 percent), penetration nerfed from 259 to 249mm;

-Leopard Prototyp A and Leopard 1 penetration nerfed from 268mm to 257mm;

-Leopard Prototyp A got a stabilization buff (accuracy on the move improved by 9-10 percent), and reload time got buffed from 11,1s to 10,9s;

-Leopard 1 got stabilization buff (22 percent);

-E50M penetration got nerfed from 270 to 259mm;

-Jpz E-100 penetration got nerfed from 299 to 278mm;

-Type 61 top gun and STB-1 gun penetration got nerfed from 258mm to 248mm;

-STB-1 got stabilization buff (12 percent) and the gun aimtime was buffed from 2,3 to 2,2s;

-Charioteer, FV4202 and Centurion 7 top gun penetration nerfed from 268mm to 257mm;

-FV4005 and FV215b (183) AP shell penetration got nerfed from 310mm to 288mm;

-Firefly viewrange increased from 360 to 370m;

-M48A1, M60 gun penetration got nerfed from 268mm to 257mm;

-M48A1 Patton got accuracy loss from moving turret buff (you now lose 33 percent less accuracy);

-T110E3 and T110E4 penetration got nerfed from 295mm to 276mm;

-T110E4 got accuracy loss from moving turret buff (you now lose 17 percent less accuracy), aim time was buffed from 2,9s to 2,8s;

-T-62A, Object 430, Object 907 and Object 140 penetration got nerfed from 264 to 253mm;

-Object 263 penetration got nerfed from 290mm to 270mm, stabilization got buffed by 12 percent and reload time got buffed from 10,7s to 10,5s;

-Object 268 penetration got nerfed from 303mm to 282mm;

-Object 704 and ISU-152 (top gun) penetration got nerfed from 286mm to 266mm;

-Chinese 121 tank penetration got nerfed from 258mm to 249mm, reload got buffed from 9,6 to 9,4s and there's also  accuracy loss from moving turret buff (you now lose 14 percent less accuracy).

 

I see no reason for them to simply nerf half of the high penetration guns and leave such tanks alone. It would only cause a shift in tank usage, tier X would be infested with leos and E50Ms would be rusting. I know WG is stupid, but doing that would be way beyond stupidity.

 

So yes, I guess we just don't have a confirmation yet.

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This is from march, before patch 9.7, when penetration nerfs were first leaked:

 

I see no reason for them to simply nerf half of the high penetration guns and leave such tanks alone. It would only cause a shift in tank usage, tier X would be infested with leos and E50Ms would be rusting. I know WG is stupid, but doing that would be way beyond stupidity.

 

So yes, I guess we just don't have a confirmation yet.

 

The march penetration nerfs made sense, sure, and I agree with your opinion that 50Ms would be let to rust and we'd have a paper med infestation. What I can't get is why "way beyond stupidity" is any reason for WG to not do something, because, well, WTF-100.

 

I'm hoping for 240-250 range for med AP, but with sprem nerfed down to 280-290 range, similar range (10mm more pen) for heavies, and TDs can be 260-280 AP and with sprem (not HESH) being about 300-320 depending on the vehicle... But, well, WG.

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Let's just hope whatever they're smoking runs out before they implement these changes.

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E50 with its 220 penetration is pretty fine against everything but heavily armored tanks frontally and some special cases like Maus. So would say ~230-240 pen is good enough for t10 meds, peoples just need to learn aim.

Intresting thing is also that russian meds possible getting 232 pen and e50m 240, that small difference starts to matter more than currently.

 

Would also make big difference in gameplay and meta. Probably would increase TD population lot as they would still have easy mode frontal penetrations against almost anything

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Gold shells are the only things needing a nerf; regular rounds are fine.

 

The funny thing is that by nerfing the regular shells they are going to cause more people to fire gold rounds. Thus making the gold spam even worse than it currently is.

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Gold shells are the only things needing a nerf; regular rounds are fine.

 

I agree with you in general, though ~265 might be a bit high for tier 10 meds.  

 

But, ~300 pen on the JPE, E3, E4 is fine?

You don't think that is a little crazy?

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It is. I think 270-280 pen should be where TDs sit, with only the 183mm TDs hitting 300mm. Heavies and meds with APCR should have 250-260 pen, meds with AP should have 240-250.

 

For gold ammo, TDs need a big nerf. They have absolutely ridiculous pen, which is even more bullshit when combined with HEAT rules. For example, a JPE can roll up to 525 pen. 525. That's enough to pen your E5's side at over 80 degrees. You can be fighting one of these tanks and be not even your side is even visible, let alone penetrable, and then have him whiff his shot, miss your front armor, and then pen your side at incredibly bad angles. It might not be as effective as the stupid amounts of APCR pen on other T10 TDs, but it's arguably even worse for the game.

 

Bring TD HEAT down to 370mm, APCR down to 340mm. Heavies and meds should have ~320mm HEAT, 290mm APCR. If WG made this the general rule and then forgot about nerfing standard ammo pen, I'd be completely content with them.

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My major beef was with the obscene APCR and HEAT that some TDs are packing. Barring those, I felt like I could for the most part still use the armor on my tanks if I was in an advantageous position. Something like an IS-4 in the right spot is a tough cookie... until someone autoaims you with 375 pen APCR for 1/3rd of your health.

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They'll never do a hardcap because it will interfere with their profits. Less gold spam = less need for prem time = less $$$

 

It's not really about shell sales directly driving purchases.

 

The main point of gold ammo is to serve as a credit sink.  The point of the credit sink is to moderate the rate at which people blow through game content.   People who don't have goals to work for get bored and stop playing.     The more people playing, the better the MM works, and the shorter the wait time is.   You can do everything else right, but if you screw that up you're not going to make the sort of money WG is pulling in.

 

People buying tanks or premium time to buy more gold ammo is just a bonus.   

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lel 113 is already useless as is, so lets give it tier 9 pen

the wz120 probably did need a pen nerf tho

 

wg doing it backwards again, lets fix the gold round problem by nerfing standard rounds.....

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How about instead of frankly silly high pen value HEAT for Tier 10 TD's, why not go the route the SU-100Y does with its lower pen, higher alpha AP?

Solves the ridiculous HEAT penetration with a somewhat gimped version of HESH. The current Jagzilla is about 290mm, if it gets reduced to say, 270mm, make the premium AP have 20-30% extra damage, but about 250mm of pen. Not enough to lolpen any tank, but high enough to be effective.

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How about instead of frankly silly high pen value HEAT for Tier 10 TD's, why not go the route the SU-100Y does with its lower pen, higher alpha AP?

Solves the ridiculous HEAT penetration with a somewhat gimped version of HESH. The current Jagzilla is about 290mm, if it gets reduced to say, 270mm, make the premium AP have 20-30% extra damage, but about 250mm of pen. Not enough to lolpen any tank, but high enough to be effective.

 

 

yeah lets just make the jpe another 183 ._.

 

 

And while we 're at it, I also want 0.4 acc and 3.5 sec aimtime on my GW-E - please, please, I promise to shoot many noobs! Thats only fair!

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The leaks are terrible but how ONE good thing they're trying to nerf/change tanks individually not doing a "blanket change" and that's something. Also the Jagdzilla needs the 420 HEAT, 299 pen on that thing is unrealible as fuck.

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yeah lets just make the jpe another 183 ._.

But unlike the Deathstar, non pen is a bounce for zero damage, rather than several hundred in HE splash. But yea. I see your point Rexxie...

Also, 299mm of pen being unreliable and it needs the 420mm HEAT? DAFUQ you smoking man?

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The question is: does TD X need gold ammo?

 

Personally I think they don't, but that's just me. This made me think of something else though... Does Mauschen need HEAT?

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