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So, *something* is gonna happen with premium ammo.

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From today (http://ritastatusreport.blogspot.nl/2015/05/more-insider-news-perks-penetration.html):

 

 

 

The idea the developers got is the following:

- TD's are to have 240-250mm and above
- HT's are to have the second best penetratio between 232 and 250mm
- MT's are third with 202 to 240mm
- LT's would be the last with 175-220mm at max

 

I will miss my Leo.

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"A noob's dream is to drive the "perfect tank that can penetrate all its shots and bounce everyone else's", so its either up-armor everyone's tanks or reduce the penetration - obviously, the penetration change IS sekected for the sake of bringing armor into value again and because having an IS-7/IS-4 with 400mm armor would only make it ridiculous, driving top tier doesnt mean you have to penetrate every of your shots, that's why armor exists."

 

So is this their new design philosophy?  

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So is this their new design philosophy?  

It always was.

For the average Joe playing WoT, the biggest problem are good / unicum players.

They destroy him every game, no matter how strong his armor is (average Joe plays E100 or TD).

Either from "unfair / invisible" positions or with "gold noob" ammo.

Artie does not bother Joe. Joe is angry because he only has 44% winrate und has no fun.

And Joe is the one who fills Wargamings wallet the most...so what will Wargaming do?

Exactly. They remove "unfair positions", "gold noob" ammo and balance unicums by precision guiding unaimed artillery shells on them (kappa). And give them "bad karma" (Whatever that means exactly).

That's what happens. They do everything for Joe to make him happy.

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MT's need nerf, no surprise here. In EU server we are now and then getting matches where 2/3 of each team is T10 meds as peoples are gravitating towards best tank type in meta. Just like before big td nerfs peoples were gravitating to playing td's and we had matches where 2/3 of each team was T10 td's.

 

Currently heavies like IS7 and E100 are vulnerable against t10 med normal ammo pretty much from every direction, there might be small invulnerability zone around 30-45 degrees from front but that is small. T10 meds simply have too much penetration compared to heavy armor. 

 

This would be also pretty big change in overall game, I can remember during beta or early release before T10 meds how hard it was to deal with IS7 using E50. Then it needed real flanking to kill heavies, not like nowadays when "flanking" means moving 10 meters and shooting straight through angled T10 heavy front sprockets or low front plate. Or loading gold.

 

Still not sure if this would be good for overall gameplay, guess thats why devs are testing it many times in supertest. Risky changes.

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The developers continue to be retarded. Aside from TD pen, where has anyone ever complained about normal ammo pen at high tiers?

 

Thank goodness they don't balance based on complaints...

 

VEN_zpsajkmnn7m.png

 

They didn't explicitly state a change in premium ammo in this post, but it is fair to assume that it will be nerfed as well, since previous status report posts have had premium ammo nerfs.

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Crux of the problem: people complain that MTs can destroy HTs from the front and that they should flank (rather forced to because crappy pen). But that doesn't work because most flanking routes (at least early on) are deathfields covered by TDs etc.

 

If they nerf med pen then they really need to look at boosting the accuracy so that (with sufficient aiming) you can snipe weakspots more easily.

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It honestly pisses me off (well almost) when people just mindlessly repeat the mantra: 

 

"Mediums have to flank, that's the textbook definition of how to play meds"

 

No it's bloody well not, the definition of a medium tank is to be flexible and be able to fill many roles if needed. If mediums were relegated to pure flanking, they would be useless for the first third of the game when there's no openings to exploit and the only thing you have shots at are the fronts of tanks.

 

If you want to complain about getting penned frontally in a heavy tank go take it up with the tank destroyers who can just lol their way through you armor with their high penetration values, not the goddamn mediums that are actually aiming at weakspots and playing intelligently... 

 

Same with TDs:

 

"Tank destroyers must camp!"

 

It boggles my mind where people get these impressions. Tank DESTROYERS.  You don't destroy tanks by camping in the back. You destroy tanks because YOU HAVE THE BEST DAMN FIREPOWER

 

This isn't hard to understand people...

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No it's bloody well not, the definition of a medium tank is to be flexible and be able to fill many roles if needed. If mediums were relegated to pure flanking, they would be useless for the first third of the game when there's no openings to exploit and the only thing you have shots at are the fronts of tanks.

 

I like playing mediums because they are flexible and can perform many roles. 

If you take away a role, I'd be sad, especially if that role is not easily replaced in certain phases of the game because there is nothing more annoying than knowing that I need to help, but not feeling like there is a meaningful job to do.  

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If you want to complain about getting penned frontally in a heavy tank go take it up with the tank destroyers who can just lol their way through you armor with their high penetration values, not the goddamn mediums that are actually aiming at weakspots and playing intelligently... 

 

 

 

The main issue right now is that a lot of meds *arent* aiming for weakspots and playing intelligently. Quite a few of them have sufficiently powerful HEAT or premium APCR to not bother with such nuances as enemy weakspots on just about anything short of the most powerful enemies they will ever encounter, like the Maus. 

We'll have to see what the final values are. Right now the tested values for standard ammo are definitely way too low, I agree on that. High tier med pen will probably be reduced to about the level where you actually can still pen heavies frontally by aiming for weakspots. The Mauschen is just about the only exception I can think of.

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Remember the first round of TD view range nerf tests?  The view rangers were finally nerfed, but no where near as much as that first test.

An internal test at a severe level allows them to get a better handle on how things would change.  Its a little early to complain about how they are handling this before we see what actually happens.

 

I understand that when snipers are being trained to change the sighting of their weapons, they are told to crank the sights HARD for the first adjustments between shots.  This allows them to see the impact clearly, and have a better idea of what the smaller adjustments will do.  After they are oriented, they can use fine adjustments.  

Everyone needs to calm down and read this.

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Sorry man, I wish I had the tits to calm, but I don't :P

 

In all seriousness, I'm sperging because from the latest update on rita's blog regarding this issue, it seems that the devs are half-set on nerfing pen values. They already said that penetration is now a balance value (but I mean... I've lost count of how many times they've eaten their words and done things that they said would never do).

 

I really really fucking hope that these pen nerfs don't take place, or take place on a much smaller scale, but I'm preparing for the worst. 

 

Oh Armoured Welfare! Where art thou!

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Sorry man, I wish I had the tits to calm, but I don't :P

 

In all seriousness, I'm sperging because from the latest update on rita's blog regarding this issue, it seems that the devs are half-set on nerfing pen values. They already said that penetration is now a balance value (but I mean... I've lost count of how many times they've eaten their words and done things that they said would never do).

 

I really really fucking hope that these pen nerfs don't take place, or take place on a much smaller scale, but I'm preparing for the worst. 

 

Oh Armoured Welfare! Where art thou!

From rita's blog by an insider.Solono has already hinted that stuff this insider says is inaccurate. Rita's blog is also connected to silentstalker, and it isn't like he has a vested interest in driving people to armored warfare. Wait until it appears in another source, since right now it is shaky.

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Sorry man, I wish I had the tits to calm, but I don't :P

 

In all seriousness, I'm sperging because from the latest update on rita's blog regarding this issue, it seems that the devs are half-set on nerfing pen values. They already said that penetration is now a balance value (but I mean... I've lost count of how many times they've eaten their words and done things that they said would never do).

 

I really really fucking hope that these pen nerfs don't take place, or take place on a much smaller scale, but I'm preparing for the worst. 

 

Oh Armoured Welfare! Where art thou!

Pen nerfs are 100% going to happen, if we're to believe Storm.

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Pen nerfs are 100% going to happen, if we're to believe Storm.

 

and thats about time, WG should have never given those tier 10 meds so much penetration, nerf pen, both AP and gold, and buff all sorts of soft stats, we now have a whole bunch of gimped tier 10 mediums, because they all have high pen, STB with 240 pen and normal gun handling? Fv42 with some turret armor and normal top speed? (and no trash bloom) M48 with some usefull armor instead of the stuff it has now? etc

 

WG can then also give tanks like leopard and amx 30 a clear advantage, give them more penetration, then you have real variaty...

 

ps: buffing soft stats and not nerfing gold ammo is the most idiotic thing WG can do, so they have plenty of room to screw stuff up, but  i guess they are not that stupid.... or are they?

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Quite frankly, the first published list of credit round nerfs they announced awhile back, that was acceptable. Roughly 10~ pen loss on all standard rounds. Not that I feel like they need the nerf, personally.

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The idea the developers got is the following:

- TD's are to have 240-250mm and above

- HT's are to have the second best penetratio between 232 and 250mm

- MT's are third with 202 to 240mm

- LT's would be the last with 175-220mm at max

 

I don't know who this "developers" are, but they have no freaking clue about the current meta.

It's probably the same guy that in the internal mail said Arty was so poor and Underpowered that you could not even get 50% winrate in it and everyone who said something else was clearly lying.

 

 

Normal ammo in its current state is fine imho, a little nerf here and there might be okay, but overall it's okay.

If you hit weakspots usually you pen, if you don't usually you bounce, that is how the game should be, that is how the game is fun.

I have zero interest in having to highroll with penetration every time i shoot an Lower plate of an E-100/Is7

 

T10 heavys are fine, i'm even getting some slightly better results in my E-100 and Is7 then in my T10 meds because despite what WG or some baddies claim armor still works.

At least until people throw nothing but prem at you..and this will not be fixed by this nerfs... it will probably get worse.

 

Wg needs to fix Premium ammo and leave normal penetration alone, but instead they cater to the average 48% tomato who died his way to his T10 heavy and now is mad that he does not bounce 90% of his shots when he Battleships his Is-7 around a corner into other T10 tanks.

 

I mean T10 tanks being able to penetrate T10 tanks?

What a preposterous concept right?

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I don't know who this "developers" are, but they have no freaking clue about the current meta...

What a preposterous concept right?

 

No. YOU have no clue.  

 

This was confirmed on status report today.

 

- Storm (angrily) replies yet again that the penetration nerfs on supertest are all tests and experiments, too early to talk about finalized version

 

In order to test things, you often go beyond the values you think are reasonable to get a handle on how they would change things.

Its ridiculous that they can't test things out without the player base panicking.  A general understanding of how development works would go along way in the player base.  

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Retards play mediums and Retards play autoloaders.

 

Retards are the main customer of Wargaming.

 

The same thing will happen that has happened since open beta, retards will be buffed since retards make them money.

 

Expect them to nerf heavy tank penetration another 10 mm after they nerfed it 10mm already after promising to put medium tanks into line since launch (promised to in open beta as well).

 

You have to remember that the heavy tank penetration nerfs happened right after they promised to nerf tier 10 medium tanks.

 

http://ftr-wot.blogspot.com/2013/05/086-supertest-hightier-penetration-nerfs.html

 

Working as intended.

 

Notice how the best tier 10 heavy for pubbing currently is the one that never gets nerfed (it actually got buffed numerous times).

 

That's because the E-100 sells premium time so successfully for Wargaming.

 

All buffs/nerfs are done purely for profit since the patch that brought the French autoloaders.

 

Stop discussion without that squarely in mind.

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All buffs/nerfs are done purely for profit since the patch that brought the French autoloaders.

 

Stop discussion without that squarely in mind.

 

Buffs and nerfs improve improve balance and gameplay.  Improved gameplay increases profitability.

 

Its probably fair to say that your statement is technically correct, but it misses a crucial middleman.

 

How did nerfing HEAT increase profitability?  Certainly not by encouraging people to buy more HEAT.  

 

Similarly, nerfs to medium and TD penetration that increases the viability of heavy tanks probably serves the game well, and would increase profitability.  

 

Why go to that level?  The goal of bettering the game is a fine one to keep in mind.  Most of the time, the buffs and nerfs directly serve that purpose, and only indirectly serve the bottom line.  

 

If a patch comes that nerfs std ammo and buffs premium ammo, then that clearly doesn't help balance, and we can point directly to finances.  But for every buff or nerf that fixes a problem, why not just talk about the direct reason for the change?

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Buffs and nerfs improve improve balance and gameplay.  Improved gameplay increases profitability.

 

Its probably fair to say that your statement is technically correct, but it misses a crucial middleman.

 

How did nerfing HEAT increase profitability?  Certainly not by encouraging people to buy more HEAT.  

 

Similarly, nerfs to medium and TD penetration that increases the viability of heavy tanks probably serves the game well, and would increase profitability.  

 

Why go to that level?  The goal of bettering the game is a fine one to keep in mind.  Most of the time, the buffs and nerfs directly serve that purpose, and only indirectly serve the bottom line.  

 

If a patch comes that nerfs std ammo and buffs premium ammo, then that clearly doesn't help balance, and we can point directly to finances.  But for every buff or nerf that fixes a problem, why not just talk about the direct reason for the change?

 

Any nerf to HEAT for tier 10s that leaves it above 300mm is a direct increase of profitability for wargaming because people are still going to use it.

 

They are just going to shoot more of them.

 

You have to look at the entire economy and every factor to determine benefit to Wargaming. Something that they do very well, and most of the posters on this forum obviously do not.

 

Now that i have answered all your rhetorical questions, I'm not going to do so again.

 

State and then defend or gtfo.

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ps: buffing soft stats and not nerfing gold ammo is the most idiotic thing WG can do, so they have plenty of room to screw stuff up, but  i guess they are not that stupid.... or are they?

 

That's exactly what I fear for.

 

However, lately their balancing has been allright. Let's hope they don't fuck it up.

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If they're playing around with the values for supertesting, fine. They're testing. That's fine by me. 

 

My problem with this whole fiasco is the fucking reasoning behind it. WG has absolutely no rational, rock-solid reasoning to back up why they're nerfing regular ammo penetration. Because right now, the way they're testing, it's set up in a way where the main focal point isn't the nerf to premium ammo, it's how much they're testing nerfing the regular ammo. And that's totally flipped. The main point should be how premium ammo was nerfed.

 

There was no real reason to tinker with the regular ammo. All they've done is stir up the hornet's nest, when the hornets were leaving you alone. All you had to do was cut off a dying branch that wasn't even remotely in the same tree, and they still managed to fuck up.

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No. YOU have no clue.  

 

This was confirmed on status report today.

 

 

In order to test things, you often go beyond the values you think are reasonable to get a handle on how they would change things.

Its ridiculous that they can't test things out without the player base panicking.  A general understanding of how development works would go along way in the player base.  

 

After the numbers were leaked i would agree with you.

But the post that i quoted doesn't sound to me to me like they are experimenting, it sound to me like "we think those numbers would be okay"

Sure they might still change, but it just didn't sound like a "we are just going crazy with numbers don't mind us!"

 

And i know how development works.. in a competent company.

 

Remember the WTE-100 ? Unnerfed release version?

Where everyone who whined about it being Op was told "It's only a test not final, they will never bring it live like that, relax!" when it appeared on the test.

 

Remember what happened next?

Yeah it came live.

 

So excuse me for being a bit paranoid about WG fucking up.

They have quiet a track record in that discipline.

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