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Sgt. Pepper

Tiger 2 - the harder and slower Tiger 1

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I'd like to know (1) why and (2) how you quoted a post within itself.  Recursive poasting is an arcane and dangerous Internetting practice that requires advanced understanding of Timecube mathematics, and could collapse the Internet into a tiny subatomic speck, requiring Al Gore to speak it into being again.

That said, KaTie is one sexy girl.

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New Model is much like old one, but crisp, clean, it's like a little black dress.

 

Frankly I hope the tank does not get any armor buff. I don't want people realizing my special snowflake is in fact special, This would invite Soviet nerf hammer.

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Sorry for thread necro, but I've got a question that's not really worth its own thread.

Is the engine upgrade on the Tiger 2 worth it? +0.65 HP/ton seems like a really poor improvement for 18k xp. Does it make any difference in game or should I just bank it to make my way to E75 goodness faster?

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Definitely get the top engine.  Makes a difference.

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On 4/1/2016 at 5:50 PM, megaflex4000 said:

Sorry for thread necro, but I've got a question that's not really worth its own thread.

Is the engine upgrade on the Tiger 2 worth it? +0.65 HP/ton seems like a really poor improvement for 18k xp. Does it make any difference in game or should I just bank it to make my way to E75 goodness faster?

Yes, you'll feel the "difference".

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You mean the engine that you can unlock in the tier 6 in the medium line, or the top engine on the Tiger??

Do not drive the Tiger without the top engine. It is a sin. It is also a keeper tank...even if you do not keep it, spend some time in it (or in Tiger 2), grind 3 skill crew for E 75. 6th, ss, Full repair+bia+ gunnery skills

besides, 700 vs 650 hp is a difference...but 260 vs 200 engine hp is a difference too...

And i wondered how I knock down Tigers engines with just one shot from 75/76 mm guns...

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On 4/27/2016 at 4:47 PM, Felicius said:

You mean the engine that you can unlock in the tier 6 in the medium line, or the top engine on the Tiger??

 

I was talking about the Tiger 2 top engine, not Tiger 1. It gives a good boost in HP but also weighs almost twice as much.

In any case, I ended up getting the engine and the difference is... maybe there? Kinda? I suppose I would notice it if I kept switching between the engines but as it is it feels like a waste of xp.

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All tigers have the same engines, no matter the tier.

16 minutes ago, megaflex4000 said:

 

 

Even Jagdtiger.

Also, you will use the same engine in med and TD line. Just like fug 12 - half the German tech three has it. Or long 88 at some point(not same version on TDs, though). Rmb is your friend.

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42 minutes ago, Felicius said:

All tigers have the same engines, no matter the tier.

 

Even Jagdtiger.

Also, you will use the same engine in med and TD line. Just like fug 12 - half the German tech three has it. Or long 88 at some point(not same version on TDs, though). Rmb is your friend.

Sorry but no they don't. The only tanks that use that engine are Tiger, Tiger 2, GW Tiger and E75(on which it's stock). The hard TD line uses the Panther top engine up to t9 while the soft line has a bunch of weird, mostly exclusive, engines.

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Indeed, but the Tiger and Tiger 2's top engine are still exactly the same engine, so his main point is still right. You should of unlocked that on the Tiger I, not the Tiger II.

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I got the Tiger 2 through the Panther. I know this question isn't applicable to most people, but just in case someone else has switched over to the heavy line from the mediums, I'd say the top engine is probably not worth it's xp cost.

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On August 22, 2015 at 1:36 PM, FlorbFnarb said:

Well, you know, I took the equipment and crew off the KT a good while ago and moved them over to the E 75 because I was really really impatient to get the E 75 going.  It hasn't been a winning machine for me, really.  About the same DPG as my M103, but 47% WR compared to the M103's 54%, despite the E 75 being platooned considerably more often.  In short, I've been missing my KT a lot, in part since my other two regular 8s are the T32 and Pershing, both of which are usually expensive tanks for me to run, while the KT was a credit-maker, plus just having good AP pen is fun.

Then I saw this thread:

View PostNecrolegion, on Aug 18 2015 - 15:41, said:

So this weekend happened, I was swimming in silver, went to the tech tree and saw this beautiful E-75 all alone in the corner. I bought it some equipment pieces and consumables, one thing led to another and I ended up bringing the E-75 over to my place and you know what happened next....

 

I unloaded the crew from my Tiger II onto the E-75

 

As you can see from my siggy, the E-75 is my first step into tier 9 territory. I now have this empty Tiger II with no crew. Should I sell it and pretend that affair never happened, or keep it as my side b****? I have a disposable B2 crew laying around. Should I transfer them to the Tiger II? What do I do?!

 

Thanks

 

And I got dem feels.  Sentimental about a pixeltank?  Yeah, that's me in spades.  I'm not a tank-selling kinda guy, really.

 

My response, slightly amended :

 

View PostFlorbFnarb, on Aug 18 2015 - 21:58, said:

 

 

 

Well, if you're me, you start out thinking you're trading up when you get an E 75.  Same sexy curves angles as the KT, except the E 75 has even more up front, you know?  I mean, she's really stacked, the kind of tank where you wanna show her off in town and make your buddies envious.  When you first hook up, it's easy-peasy, and once the relationship progresses to the elite stage, you definitely have a couple crazy, wild, break the bed MM kinda nights, where afterward you just sit back in awe of your own studliness, thinking "Man, I really aced her good.  I aced her so #$&%ing hard, probably harder than anybody has ever aced her before."  And for a while you just have fun playing with those big ol' glacis plates, you know?  Cuz let's admit it: the E 75 has a really massive pair of glacis plates.

 
But eventually, you end up realizing there's more to a tank than just the size of her glacis plates.  I mean, don't get me wrong, here: big is good, and the E 75's glacis plates are both large and pleasantly shaped.  But still...you notice that you're giving miss E 75 your best efforts, but you aren't getting that much in return.  Just getting her, ummmm...into action, so to speak, is a slow, laborious process, and even once you get her going, you find that she isn't always the amazing ride rumor makes her out to be.  A few crazy nights later, you realize that she just isn't that satisfying. Yeah, sometimes you had those wild, crazy nights where it was one awesome match after another, she was taking everything you gave her, until you woke the neighbors with your cries of YEAH!  OH YEAH!  OH GOD YES JUST LIKE THAT as you blap one enemy after another, until the match ends and you finally hit the sack and turn the light out, spent and slightly exhausted from the effort.  Unfortunately, those nights are very rare.  More common are the nights where you go the extra mile, put out all that effort and attention to getting her oh so slowly into action...and then armor or not, you get four-shot, and after only getting two shots off.  Sixty seconds after actual contact and you're done, spent, finished, your load shot, leaving you frustrated, a little angry and a lot embarrassed, and when she says "it happens to every tanker sometimes" she somehow makes you feel even worse about it.  You could just exit the match and play another battle, but somehow you find yourself turning in early, suspecting that it wouldn't be worth the effort.  Your evenings together start ending like this more frequently.  What's worse, the E75 is an expensive date, and to top it off, the whole thing is becoming embarrassing enough you don't dare double-date platoon with friends anymore; she's embarrassed you in front of your friends far too many times.
 
Then you start thinking about the good ol' KT.  KaTie, or Brunhilde the Valkyrie as you called her.  No, she didn't give you those ace matches...but neither did she embarrass you in front of your friends.  When you were ready for action, she would actually get up and go, like the only place she wanted to be was in the fight with you.  As soon as the countdown ended, she was moving, practically purring in your ear, "I'm ready to do this with you all night long."  Ace matches or not, she was a fun ride, she moved just right, and she knew exactly where you wanted her shots to go.  You ended a night with KaTie exhausted but satisfied
 
Poor KaTie that you left alone in the garage, with no crew or equipment; how badly you treated her when you got all hot in the pants for the E 75.  I mean, she didn't expect you to be hers exclusively; nobody does that in WoT.  But stripping her of her crew and equipment to give to the E 75?  Real classy, man.  It isn't as though she's the 3601; the 3601 got slow and fat for some reason, yet you didn't see fit to move her crew and equipment.
 
So you feel kinda sad, and more than a little guilty at how shabbily you treated a classy lady like KaTie.  She never let you down, and yet you ran off after a tank with a bigger pair of glacis plates.  Honesty, although KaTie isn't quite as generously endowed up front millimeter-wise as the E 75, she still has the same sexy angles - maybe even better, depending on taste.  So what was it you were after?  Honestly, you have a hard time remembering.
 
But in the end...KaTie is still in your garage.  Bereft of equipment and crew, but still there, waiting patiently.  She holds no grudges, and never judges.  She knows you're currently having a fling with that Russian IS-3, or Natasha as you think of her, although KaTie just calls her "The Black Widow".  KaTie knows your little black book still holds the phone number of that petite little junior college tank, T1na Cunningham, and she doesn't mind at all (although she does hope you checked her ID first, for goodness' sake.)  She knows you drop by and see all three of the Pershing Sisters (Regular Pershing, Super Pershing and T32 Ultra-Pershing) fairly often.  Hell, she knows you still drop by and see her own country cousin, the Tiger I, and she doesn't mind.  (You call her Helga for fun. Yeah, she's a little flat in front, but she knows how to move, and she likes to go out in a field somewhere and just do it out in the open.  Remember those lazy Sunday afternoons you and Helga would find a nice sunny hilltop on Redshire or Westfield and DPM each other's brains out?  Yeah, so does she.)
 
KaTie doesn't care.  Save up for some equipment and a crew, or just take them from the 3601.  Hell, buy KaTie some nice, slinky camo, take her out for a night on the town (or in the country; she's flexible like that) and show her a good time.  Maybe peel off that utilitarian old AFE (KaTie's too young for hot flashes anyway) and give her a bite of Chocolate; you know that stuff really gets her going.
 
Make her your Brunhilde liebchen again.  You know you want to.
 
 

So yeah, now I'm basically grinding credits to put some equipment back on ol KaTie, move a crew in, give her some sexxeh camo, and take my Brunhilde liebchen for a ride.

:tank:

Also, just to be clear: comparisons to the IS-3 are absurd and pointless.  Of course the Tiger 2 doesn't measure up to the IS-3.  Nothing in the tier does, really, not the T32 that has always impressed me, not the Pershing, not the Type 59, not the IS-6 that is so beloved (even by me) and not even (I feel ashamed to admit) the damned Super Pershing.  The IS-3 is just undeniably over-fucking-powered to a ridiculous degree.  I never really thought it was when I was facing them - I never found it too hard to pen unless it was hull-down, and I knew which of my tanks could tank its shots under what circumstances, which could flank it successfully, etc. and so forth.

Then I got one myself, and saw the truth.  I only have a relative handful of matches in it, but the thing is just ridiculous.  It's got just about everything - armor, pen, alpha, workable accuracy, good gun handling, and excellent mobility for a heavy tank.  The view range is poor and the DPM is weak, but not nearly enough to be a serious limitation.  The only serious downside is the gun depression.  You have to be extremely careful, because even the gentlest slope might be more than your depression can handle - nothing else means much.

So yeah, don't bother with the "It's not as good as the IS-3" argument.  Nothing in the tier is as good as the IS-3.

Bruh, I actually read the entire post and got slightly turned on. The feels.

 

Personally I'm currently with KaTie atm. And despite what some may say about her, she's a great fraulein. I have much more confidence going into battle with her than I do with most other tanks.

T32 can't take hits to her silicone front hull as reliably, and I have to open my wallet for her more often than usual to make her perform better in action. She is a bit thick in the head, which can be a good thing too since just like her sisters and cousins she can shrug off the abuse from others like a champ.

Natasha can be a wild ride, and she can be surprisingly forgiving of mistakes you may make. She doesn't need you to do too much for her to put out, but is always appreciative if you go the extra mile to keep her going. She may seem complex, sophisticated with her like nose and curves, but her methods are simple enough. 

But KaTie. Oh Frau. I love her. And she returns her love if you treat and use her right. She's a tall and proud lady, and that may scare off some suitors. But if you know how to pull her strings and appease her with some chocolate ( I've never given her any choco to keep her lean, but she don't mind though), she'll give you a good time. Her glacis plate is just the ample size to turn heads, and let's face it, being too top heavy can get in the way right?

i'll still take a swing at E-75, but I have a sinking feeling that KaTie knows that I won't easily get over her, like it took me awhile to get over Helga

 

@FlorbFnarb you've inspired me to write something similar regarding my current love affair with British mediums.

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I admit I had a ton of fun writing that.

I have changed my mind about the IS-3, however.  It's fun and a good tank but I no longer consider it some clear best in class/tier tank.

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I simply dont like this tank, because:

- side feels like a butter, dont sidescrape at autobounce angle = almost instant pen for guns with +200mm pen. Meanwhile, if you DO sidescrape at autobounce angle, you will expose small part of UFP which is pennable by... +220 pen i think?

- horrifying module damage. Engine gets damaged from everywhere, ammorack is large, driver dies often. 

- its huge af

- lowerplate means that you cant peek from corners either

Gun is fucking great, though. I probably cant use it right, but nah, im getting rid of this thing tomorrow anyway, especially with 5x for first win coming tomorrow.

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Gun is not great. It lacks both alpha and DPM. As a huge arty bait you are forced to brawl. ACC buff was the wrong one, especially in this meta. It would benefit from  better gun handling, too...since it is so soft you must keep exposure at minimum. Give it 2.3 aim time and 8 sec reload...it would still be worse than T32 or IS3. IS-3 turret dispersion ftw. Snapshot with shells

guided by hand of Stalin.

 

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Man, do people seriously not like the tank? It's so comfy to play. It doesn't have the best alpha, but everything else about the gun is absolutely fantastic. It's sidescrapeable against tanks your tier, and it even kind of cruises.

This makes me want an E-50/M...

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I love my KT.  It's one of my most comfortable tanks to play.

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On 5/26/2016 at 2:39 AM, Mami_Momoe said:

This makes me want an E-50/M...

This is a tank you will forget instantly when you but E 50/M.

Better sexy look, but real armor on a 2x faster medium. Some camo (but not to be relied upon). Great gun handling, alpha, and final acc...and armor that works in the role of a heavy much better than this one top tier.

Tiger 2 is not a terrible tank, but not great either. It has no strong points on armor - gold goes through your ufp, if you sidescrape your turret gets penned, it is huge and soft for arty hits (80 mm sides, and very tall - try to hit an IS-3 with arty...much harder).

I think i lost 30% of my hp on average just from arty while playing it...and forward deployment early game sucs, because IS-3s have already got there into their cozy hulldown/arty safe spot and are rdy preaimed to overmatch my turret.

Gun handling is again, not great. And dpm not really viable. Still miles better than Caern, but I would rather play a KV-4 for strong Stalin brick if I chose a slow as fuck 320 alpha heavy. At least arty click you for 250 dmg in that 150 mm side armor, and flanking lights can not pen your ass. No overmatch forehead, either...so you are at mercy of goldspammers and your roof penthouse.

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German tanks generally have two problems:

First, they have that "western tank"-problem, that permeates so many tech-trees: They're long range tanks in a brawling game (the whole point of the 88/L56 and 75/L70 was their high shell-velocity and relatively high penetration-value even at longer ranges, which allowed you to accurately target, hit and reliably penetrate tanks at ranges well beyond 1km). If this game would generally be played beyond 500m, german (and to some degree all western) armor would be a lot more useful than it is.

The second problem is, that a number of the middle tiered tanks in the german tech-tree are technically uptiered. They're tiered with vehicles that were designed to beat them. A good example of that are Tiger, Tiger II and Panther. Tiger I fights Black Princes and IS-1/2s, both tanks started their development in 1942/43, while Tiger is essentially a 1937/38-design. Tiger II is 1942-material, while IS-3 didn't even enter service before the end of the war. Same for Panther, though it's position is more in line with reality than Tiger I. Panther-design started in 1941. Meanwhile, Sherman-Firefly, the famed Tiger I-killer, is an ad hoc creation from 1944 and sits on Tier 6. Or T-43 is, as the name implies, essentially a 1943-tank. German tank-tiers are much more derived from their (unhistorical) guns, while their armor should almost consistently imply them being a tier lower, where it would be, totally not surprising, actually good.

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59 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

German tanks generally have two problems:

First, they have that "western tank"-problem, that permeates so many tech-trees: They're long range tanks in a brawling game (the whole point of the 88/L56 and 75/L70 was their high shell-velocity and relatively high penetration-value even at longer ranges, which allowed you to accurately target, hit and reliably penetrate tanks at ranges well beyond 1km). If this game would generally be played beyond 500m, german (and to some degree all western) armor would be a lot more useful than it is.

The second problem is, that a number of the middle tiered tanks in the german tech-tree are technically uptiered. They're tiered with vehicles that were designed to beat them. A good example of that are Tiger, Tiger II and Panther. Tiger I fights Black Princes and IS-1/2s, both tanks started their development in 1942/43, while Tiger is essentially a 1937/38-design. Tiger II is 1942-material, while IS-3 didn't even enter service before the end of the war. Same for Panther, though it's position is more in line with reality than Tiger I. Panther-design started in 1941. Meanwhile, Sherman-Firefly, the famed Tiger I-killer, is an ad hoc creation from 1944 and sits on Tier 6. Or T-43 is, as the name implies, essentially a 1943-tank. German tank-tiers are much more derived from their (unhistorical) guns, while their armor should almost consistently imply them being a tier lower, where it would be, totally not surprising, actually good.

Neither of your points is correct.  Go play a Chinede medium with a high-caliber gun with 175mm pen, then tell me turret armor and alpha are important but accuracy, gun handling, pen and shell velocity are not.  Your historical argument is meaningless; it doesn't matter at all what was "designed to defeat" what, it matters what the tanks' stats are in the game.

Also, western tanks are not "relevant"?  Only Chinese and Russian tanks are "relevant"?  That's funny; I think perhaps it's a little controversial to say that the T32, Pershing, Patton, 50 100, E5, E100, E50 and others are not relevant, while the T-43, T-44, IS-7, IS-4(!) and others are relevant.

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2 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Neither of your points is correct.  Go play a Chinede medium with a high-caliber gun with 175mm pen, then tell me turret armor and alpha are important but accuracy, gun handling, pen and shell velocity are not.  Your historical argument is meaningless; it doesn't matter at all what was "designed to defeat" what, it matters what the tanks' stats are in the game.

Also, western tanks are not "relevant"?  Only Chinese and Russian tanks are "relevant"?  That's funny; I think perhaps it's a little controversial to say that the T32, Pershing, Patton, 50 100, E5, E100, E50 and others are not relevant, while the T-43, T-44, IS-7, IS-4(!) and others are relevant.

I have to assume, that your reading-comprehension is somewhere between zero and non-existant. I am making an arguement about armor and I didn't even use the word "relevant" in the entire post.

But just to entertain the thought: Please, name me one german mid-tier vehicle (6 to 8), that is regularly and successfully used in organized gameplay (strongholds, team-battles and clanwars) outside of the RU-251. If you can't find a single one, think long and hard about why.

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T 54 lwt beats RU in 8 out of 10 times. RU Hesh is useless against 54, while 54 HE is more than enough for 20 mm of armor. IS 3 HE destroys RU in 2.2 shots, while 54 can bounce AP rounds with turret, so...

I like RU more in randoms, but in stronks 54 is the meta.

Actually, the only one "historical" german tank that is today relevant, is the Jagdtiger, the undisputed king of tier 9 tds.

Pz. 4 and Luchs, with their "unhistorical" guns (3 cm and 10.5 cm) are also solid contestants for the low tier padders, but T-34 with pure fantasy of laser pew pew 57 mm beats them both by a mile. At least in winning battles, both germans are more fun, especially top tier.

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1 hour ago, Madner Kami said:

I have to assume, that your reading-comprehension is somewhere between zero and non-existant. I am making an arguement about armor and I didn't even use the word "relevant" in the entire post.

But just to entertain the thought: Please, name me one german mid-tier vehicle (6 to 8), that is regularly and successfully used in organized gameplay (strongholds, team-battles and clanwars) outside of the RU-251. If you can't find a single one, think long and hard about why.

Sorry, you said "useful", rather than "relevant"...but I don't see how that changes anything.  The T32, T29, Jumbo, Pershing, AT 2, Super Pershing and JT88 don't have useful armor on a western tank?

I don't consider use in organized play the relevant metric in determining the quality of a tank; there's probably a thousand pub matches played for every organized match.  Still, since when are the T32, Pershing and E 100 not useful in organized matches?

Also, in both English and German, "armor" can mean "tank" as well as literally "armor". :P

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The thing with middle tiers of German tanks is their quite realistic designs. Comparing something like Panther prototype which was eventually embodied in Panther design and paper proposals like LTTB or 416 you can see the difference.

WoT doesn't care about some unconventional and radical designs(and their eventual flaws, which in the end lead them to not being accepted in service) you can see why Ze Germans loose the mid tier race.

In top tiers that kinda balances out, as you can see with Grille 15 or E-50 for example, where WG gave themselves space for imagination.

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