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Elite: Dangerous - Anyone Out there?

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8 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

10% ship & module, single Elite. 12.25%

15% ship & module, single Elite. 17.13%.

10% ship & module, double Elite. 14.44%

15% ship & module, double Elite. 19.11%

10% ship & module, triple Elite. 16.58%

15% ship & module, triple Elite. 21.22%

It calculates more decimals than my calculator.

2.5% for each Elite, stacks with other discounts. So the formula goes 1-discount * (0.975 ^ EliteCount) If I recall correctly.

At some point the difference made can cover rebuy cost.

I've never heard that you get any discount for Elite ratings at all, just a 15% discount at LYR systems and a 10% discount at Shinrarta Dezhra.

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14 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

I've never heard that you get any discount for Elite ratings at all, just a 15% discount at LYR systems and a 10% discount at Shinrarta Dezhra.

It was there since the start of the game I think...

Discount also not always applied to both ship and module and not always system-wise. The 10% discount in Shinrarta Dezhra only applies to Jameson Memorial. 30% discount on weapons only applies to Attilius Orbital, Alioth's Irkutsk 10% discount only applies to AspX and Orca but not any module changes. LYR's discount are system-wise and both applies to ship and module. Elite rank discount applies regardless of other condition.

I should point out for myself CQC is the fourth Elite rank that I dont think it matters :kappa:

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6 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

It was there since the start of the game I think...

Discount also not always applied to both ship and module and not always system-wise. The 10% discount in Shinrarta Dezhra only applies to Jameson Memorial. 30% discount on weapons only applies to Attilius Orbital, Alioth's Irkutsk 10% discount only applies to AspX and Orca but not any module changes. LYR's discount are system-wise and both applies to ship and module. Elite rank discount applies regardless of other condition.

I should point out for myself CQC is the fourth Elite rank that I dont think it matters :kappa:

https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Discounts

 

Looks like you get ONE 2.5% discount on everything once you hit Elite in any field, but you don't get multiple ones.

Also, it's looking like there are no LYR systems that sell the Cutter, which sucks.  Fucking expensive ship to be buying at only a 10% off at Jameson, then a 2.5% off for Elite. 

 

tenor.gif

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13 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Discounts

 

Looks like you get ONE 2.5% discount on everything once you hit Elite in any field, but you don't get multiple ones.

Also, it's looking like there are no LYR systems that sell the Cutter, which sucks.  Fucking expensive ship to be buying at only a 10% off at Jameson, then a 2.5% off for Elite. 

You might be correct. 17.125% I'd still take it

As for the Cutter, there was, only one, Arjung, next to Harm, got eaten :minidoge:

 

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4 minutes ago, Unavailebow said:

You might be correct. 17.125% I'd still take it

As for the Cutter, there was, Arjung, next to Harm, got eaten :minidoge:

 

The discounts multiply, they don't add, so it's (price) x discount1 x discount2  - not (price) x (discount1+discount2).  Doesn't make a huge difference, but it's there.

6 minutes ago, Unavailebow said:

You might be correct. 17.125% I'd still take it

As for the Cutter, there was, Arjung, next to Harm, got eaten :minidoge:

 

Oh shit, Arjung and Azha come up with a 15% off for the Cutter.

AWESOME.

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15 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

The discounts multiply, they don't add, so it's (price) x discount1 x discount2  - not (price) x (discount1+discount2).  Doesn't make a huge difference, but it's there.

The formula didn't change, just minus the stacking 2.5% part. So 17.125% still applies

15 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

The discounts multiply, they don't add, so it's (price) x discount1 x discount2  - not (price) x (discount1+discount2).  Doesn't make a huge difference, but it's there.

Oh shit, Arjung and Azha come up with a 15% off for the Cutter.

AWESOME.

Thats why you don't jump into Open in that area, Harm, Arjung, Azha... etc. Btw, Arjung is high tech, Harm is industrial, you will get whatever you want there but they keep running out of stock. If you want a Corvette, Azha has it as well, just different station.

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8 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

The formula didn't change, just minus the stacking 2.5% part. So 17.125% still applies

Thats why you don't jump into Open in that area, Harm, Arjung, Azha... etc. Btw, Arjung is high tech, Harm is industrial, you will get whatever you want there but they keep running out of stock. If you want a Corvette, Azha has it as well, just different station.

I only play Open.  I've never logged into any other mode yet. :awyeah:

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Man, if you need Imperial rank, go do courier missions between Ngalinn and Mainani.  Ranks you up really fast.  Wish I had discovered this before being practically at Duke already.

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6 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Man, if you need Imperial rank, go do courier missions between Ngalinn and Mainani.  Ranks you up really fast.  Wish I had discovered this before being practically at Duke already.

I ranked up Imperial before they nerfed courier, those are merely occasional chances created by BGS, or some interestingly refers as "exploits". Shu Babasi if that calls out any memories.

Back in those days everybody didn't worry much about Federal ranks because Robigo and Sothis had a lot of headings to Federal space, not so much for Imperial rank, until they changed mission reward system and everybody went courier. Then a significant nerf, sparked a lot of discussion around FD not letting BGS to do its job freely. I recall going up Rear Admiral with courier missions took twice as long to hit Duke from respective previous ranks, it is that worse of a nerf. A lot of new players didn't know Elite was always cycles of, people discover something, regardless of it refers as "exploit" or not (a matter of morality), players benefit from it before FD nerfs it, repeat. i.e. Do it before it was cool. Every single cycle has led to conundrums of "The game should be played like this, or that..." and "FD should stop this and that..." while all the cool-headed Founders and Beta, early Gammas sit on their billions of credits laughing or just having their own game progression and care nothing. Early starters/adopters are unpunished (rightfully so), new players are infuriated for their much slower progression compare to the former, as much as we the early starters yelled to FD about lack of content, FD did better thing for the game which was spent time on new players' experience.

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On 9/8/2019 at 2:48 AM, Unavailebow said:

Then you might see a 747 exclusive airport :doge:

I still honestly have no idea what this means.

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:05 AM, FlorbFnarb said:

I still honestly have no idea what this means.

There was a spark in Cutter traffic in Arjung made people not able to dock because those large pads are full in most instances. :microdoge:

Cutter were often refers as 747 for its white, airliner liked fuselage around its launch, also a slight mock of it not ressembling the concept art, having egg-shaped fuselage (thick neck). Although Beluga came out worse :triggered:

Imperial_Cutter_concept_art_01.png

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That looks pretty close, the real thing is just a little narrower in the body.

And yeah, the Beluga looks to be considerably different.

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I have my Cutter pretty well kitted out for piracy now.  Stopped an NPC Type 9 in an uninhabited system and started hitting it with hatch breakers.  Kind of a pain - the loot gets spread out.  You literally make practically zero space-dollars pirating NPCs, although I do need to try and find some that are hauling more valuable commodities, like Void Opals or something.

Seriously, crime does not pay.  Gonna have to start pirating players.  NPCs just don't carry shit, and you can't negotiate.

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On 9/15/2019 at 3:48 AM, FlorbFnarb said:

That looks pretty close, the real thing is just a little narrower in the body.

And yeah, the Beluga looks to be considerably different.

The “wing” section was pushed back, made the body look even longer.

6 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

I have my Cutter pretty well kitted out for piracy now.  Stopped an NPC Type 9 in an uninhabited system and started hitting it with hatch breakers.  Kind of a pain - the loot gets spread out.  You literally make practically zero space-dollars pirating NPCs, although I do need to try and find some that are hauling more valuable commodities, like Void Opals or something.

Seriously, crime does not pay.  Gonna have to start pirating players.  NPCs just don't carry shit, and you can't negotiate.

Pirate NPC for materials and Thargoid commodities. Pirating void opal = pain trying to straight your cutter in asteroid, almost impossible because the way to fly a cutter is boost drift and boost turn, a thing non of the other ship at comparable size can do due to it sheer amount of main thrust and max speed. The lack of supercruise manoeuvrability to interdict will make your day worse trying to catch players. Cutter is more of a defensive and engagement control type of ship by shamelessly abusing that speed, shield and armour, gets away whenever it wants to with MLF. It gets toy around when it is the chaser, either it chases or it shoots, can’t do both at once.

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I've found other ships can boost away from it, but by doing so (at least NPCs) they tend to open themselves up to being shot in the ass repeatedly.  Three PAs and a pair of cannon do some damage when they do that.  Not that I'm 100% sure I'm sticking with those weapons.

I've been told player pirating is generally best done through intimidation rather than having to resort to the hatchbreakers.

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6 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

I've found other ships can boost away from it, but by doing so (at least NPCs) they tend to open themselves up to being shot in the ass repeatedly.  Three PAs and a pair of cannon do some damage when they do that.  Not that I'm 100% sure I'm sticking with those weapons.

I've been told player pirating is generally best done through intimidation rather than having to resort to the hatchbreakers.

PvP is a completely opposite universe. Shield doesn’t grant you any protection should one be hit by a damn good shot torpedo. There is something about “Multipupose” that is true among them, module made out of cheese in uncovered location. Silent torps are still best way to hunt large ships.

Chasing was never effective. 15 seconds it runs away, do anything to knock modules so nobody can leave. A Cutter can do 430 which is good for chasing somebody straight and pretty much it. So it all comes down to the initial blow, for that, it has KO modules, I doubt PAs are the best because slow projectile. There was an age of shield penetrating cannon, one click and it sits.

I mean, people wouldn’t mind losing their ship with the cargo than giving them away so I don't really know how open pirates make a profit out of it or how they cover the ship building cost. 

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1 hour ago, Unavailebow said:

PvP is a completely opposite universe. Shield doesn’t grant you any protection should one be hit by a damn good shot torpedo. There is something about “Multipupose” that is true among them, module made out of cheese in uncovered location. Silent torps are still best way to hunt large ships.

Chasing was never effective. 15 seconds it runs away, do anything to knock modules so nobody can leave. A Cutter can do 430 which is good for chasing somebody straight and pretty much it. So it all comes down to the initial blow, for that, it has KO modules, I doubt PAs are the best because slow projectile. There was an age of shield penetrating cannon, one click and it sits.

I mean, people wouldn’t mind losing their ship with the cargo than giving them away so I don't really know how open pirates make a profit out of it or how they cover the ship building cost. 

This is my target build: https://s.orbis.zone/4e_j

Not entirely sure about sticking with the weapons.  The Grom Bombs should suffice to keep people from jumping out, though.

Unfortunately you're right that a lot of people would rather die and lose all their cargo rather than give up 25% or whatever.  The worst of them just combat-log, even though task-killing in combat is a violation of the TOS.

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12 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

This is my target build: https://s.orbis.zone/4e_j

Not entirely sure about sticking with the weapons.  The Grom Bombs should suffice to keep people from jumping out, though.

Unfortunately you're right that a lot of people would rather die and lose all their cargo rather than give up 25% or whatever.  The worst of them just combat-log, even though task-killing in combat is a violation of the TOS.

The C2 hardpoints won't align with the C3/C4 and they will miss in close range. May as well replace resistance augment with heavy duty, you are not going to get the shield above 50% anyway with prismatic. I am not sure if hull reinforcement worth it instead of shield or module reinforcement. It is a Cutter and meant to get away in 5 seconds, do everything to keep the modules. Also you are likely to run into instant toasting with that thermal load, some extra cost that you have to pay before even taking down a ship.

I am not a fan of PvP nor pirating and shall never be. But my understanding told me Pris are not to go by for PvP becasue a bulkier shield meant that you have to constantly jumping away and reboot in any prolonged fight, taking down a 4,000MJ joual shield is not that hard, plus your cell bank are chaged based on MJ not percentiles, benefits of a larger capacity shield is neglected. I would say large capacity shield is less viable. For people who does quick PvP fights and fair fights, Prismatic is the only way if you assumed you will be shield rammed to death.

Before they nerf shield booster's engineering a heavy-duty full prismatic Cutter can easily go up to 10,000+MJs on thermal, it was variable due to the amount of time it can stay in the battle, reboot gives you 5,000 which is better than a pack of cell banks. The other being fast-charge resistance bi-weave, very low absolute shielding but effectively touching 6,000MJs on thermal, it was cell bank friendly becasue of the low absolute shield, plus with careful power distribution and controlled engagement those things will never run out. Mix and match between the two grant you immortality in PvE conflict zones. Full bi-weave were exclusively used by pirates in their smaller, agile and fast ships (If you consider FdL is small) because they start controlling the engagement by first carefully taking down modules, most importantly, they avoid rammings.

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On 9/19/2019 at 3:58 AM, Unavailebow said:

The C2 hardpoints won't align with the C3/C4 and they will miss in close range. May as well replace resistance augment with heavy duty, you are not going to get the shield above 50% anyway with prismatic. I am not sure if hull reinforcement worth it instead of shield or module reinforcement. It is a Cutter and meant to get away in 5 seconds, do everything to keep the modules. Also you are likely to run into instant toasting with that thermal load, some extra cost that you have to pay before even taking down a ship.

I am not a fan of PvP nor pirating and shall never be. But my understanding told me Pris are not to go by for PvP becasue a bulkier shield meant that you have to constantly jumping away and reboot in any prolonged fight, taking down a 4,000MJ joual shield is not that hard, plus your cell bank are chaged based on MJ not percentiles, benefits of a larger capacity shield is neglected. I would say large capacity shield is less viable. For people who does quick PvP fights and fair fights, Prismatic is the only way if you assumed you will be shield rammed to death.

Before they nerf shield booster's engineering a heavy-duty full prismatic Cutter can easily go up to 10,000+MJs on thermal, it was variable due to the amount of time it can stay in the battle, reboot gives you 5,000 which is better than a pack of cell banks. The other being fast-charge resistance bi-weave, very low absolute shielding but effectively touching 6,000MJs on thermal, it was cell bank friendly becasue of the low absolute shield, plus with careful power distribution and controlled engagement those things will never run out. Mix and match between the two grant you immortality in PvE conflict zones. Full bi-weave were exclusively used by pirates in their smaller, agile and fast ships (If you consider FdL is small) because they start controlling the engagement by first carefully taking down modules, most importantly, they avoid rammings.

The belly mediums work well enough with the nose huge hardpoint.  The wing mediums of course won't converge at all for fixed.

The heat really isnt bad.  The only real problem with this build is that it's insanely geared toward taking out large, less maneuverable ships.  I've killed Anacondas as fast as I've killed Vultures due to difficulties in hitting with fixed hardpoints on a Cutter.  The missiles aren't as viable as they might be, since you almost never wind up on anybody's rear.

I have noticed that my ship is death incarnate to NPC Clippers, though.  They're a big target and not agile enough to be hard to hit, but they don't have the firepower or shield power to be a difficult challenge.

In the end, though, piracy isn't panning out to be all it could be.  PvE piracy is a pain.  Most cargo ships carry trash, and small amounts of it.  They can't be bullied into a quick submission.  If you go PvE at a HAZRES, other pirates just harass you as soon as you steal anything.  They'd rather badger the player in the engineered cutter with 5 tons of methane clathate rather than the Harmless NPC mining Keelback with bromellite or whatever.

And finding players to pirate...just doesn't happen.  Frontier made a mistake including Solo and Private Group in a multiplayer game.  Finding people with cargo in Open is like a needle in a haystack.

I'm going to try again over the next week or so, and if it doesn't pan out, I might rededicate the Cutter to some other role, find a medium ship to pirate in, like an FAS, or I might just drop piracy altogether.  Frontier might as well just admit they intend to let piracy and smuggling die as feasible jobs in the game.

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22 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

The belly mediums work well enough with the nose huge hardpoint.  The wing mediums of course won't converge at all for fixed.

The heat really isnt bad.  The only real problem with this build is that it's insanely geared toward taking out large, less maneuverable ships.  I've killed Anacondas as fast as I've killed Vultures due to difficulties in hitting with fixed hardpoints on a Cutter.  The missiles aren't as viable as they might be, since you almost never wind up on anybody's rear.

I have noticed that my ship is death incarnate to NPC Clippers, though.  They're a big target and not agile enough to be hard to hit, but they don't have the firepower or shield power to be a difficult challenge.

In the end, though, piracy isn't panning out to be all it could be.  PvE piracy is a pain.  Most cargo ships carry trash, and small amounts of it.  They can't be bullied into a quick submission.  If you go PvE at a HAZRES, other pirates just harass you as soon as you steal anything.  They'd rather badger the player in the engineered cutter with 5 tons of methane clathate rather than the Harmless NPC mining Keelback with bromellite or whatever.

And finding players to pirate...just doesn't happen.  Frontier made a mistake including Solo and Private Group in a multiplayer game.  Finding people with cargo in Open is like a needle in a haystack.

I'm going to try again over the next week or so, and if it doesn't pan out, I might rededicate the Cutter to some other role, find a medium ship to pirate in, like an FAS, or I might just drop piracy altogether.  Frontier might as well just admit they intend to let piracy and smuggling die as feasible jobs in the game.

Sees a Clipper, ram it. Sees a Python, ram it. Sees a Conda, ram it. The fastest way to finish NPC is ram then all guns to powerplant.

Frontier did not make a mistake including Solo and Private Group in a multiplayer game, when were Elites even multiplayer? The gameplay was certainly not made fundamentally designed for multiplayer-only, look at the latency and synchronsation, if it ever was it would have had multiple servers isolating players into regional groups, resulting players like me, impossible to play the game. Why piracy is pain, should I say, piracy is masochism because it was more of a mental thing than it actually exist in the game by simply looking at how Combat ranks are progressed, contrary to earlier development claims. Yeah sure it exist on wikia and they did improve NPC carrying more cargo and so on, but ultimately, you do not gain Combat rank from piracy as it is against Pilots Federation ruling and considered crime, neither selling stolen cargo count towards Combat rank. Exploration, Combat, Trade, that is (haha CQC).

From my perspective this is a clever move, and same goes to the PvP conundrum, giving players ability to choose Open or Solo or Group makes few things way easier for Frontier and the game environment itself.

  1. Server, if you Ctrl+B and look at your internet traffic, you will find Solo demand way less data traffic due to instances. Because you don't have to receive and transmit your data (location, actions...) constantly, server doesn't have to relay those information to players in the same instances all time.
     
  2. AI, forced multiplayer made PvP piracy easier, so then increased crime rate where victims are players. Vicitm are highly likely to be died even before authority ship finished scanning, system with security meant nothing to chances of survival, victim has no choice over his fate to begin with.
     
  3. Balancing. This is crucial. We now have close to 30 ships and only passenger ships were forced to have a discrete role to a degree it is impossible to be crossed by ships by giving them unique modules. If the game only has multiplayer, first thing will occur is competitiveness and working efficiency of ships became too decisive most ships would be obsolete. when players are forced to defend themselves at any given moment guess who will be flying their Type 7 tomorrow.
     
  4. Forced progression and competition. As the game become multiplayer and open to all risk from other players, consider how easy it is to erase small ships from existence coupled with game's horrific learning curve and grind, everybody will sought after the biggest ship possible and bully the young.

With all that, game becomes a PvP MMORPG. Forced multiplayer simply put it, every single act affects players nearby, at some point it starts to take away other player's freedom to enjoy the game. This works on free-to-play model but Elite isn't, everybody paid their bucks in order to even start the game.

Nobody ever against the idea of having Piracy and Smuggling, but PvP Piracy is a different matter, rather, PvP is. Current state of the game is basically making sure everyone is safely enjoying their game and only take risk when they wanted to. As for PvP, is when both sides are equally will to take risk. I wouldn't letanybody come to my face randomly send me to rebuy then laugh at me becasue I paid $100 for my desired gaming experience. The idea of people wants to harvest other people and taking away their fun saying it is "realistic" is actually more illogic than reality.

Smuggling is always there, is it efficient? No, but it is there, there are still smuggling missions, legal smuggle and piracy is basically smuggling with a few more shots. Is it feasible? Yes, go PvE, same as any other roles, they are all feasible, just not as efficient as one and other. A 400+ Cutter is viable for doing smuggling missions, none of the spawn chasers has the speed to scan you before you get away, just have to line the mailslot carefully and brake precisely.

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The problem is that they haven't balanced the game properly in terms of income.  Higher risk should produce higher reward.  Piracy, smuggling, and bounty hunting should certainly pay out better than mining or trading, but they pay the least out of all trades.  Mining, then exploration, then trade is how you make money.  If the world worked like that, we wouldn't HAVE any criminals.  Making crime pay so poorly is effectively the same as saying they don't want people to pursue criminal trades, which seems rather deceptive given that their marketing specifically mentions these as viable professions in the game.

Ramming is a viable tactic for one or a few opponents for a Cutter; it isn't a viable approach for the long term in a RES, because of how slowly high power shields regenerate.  Given that NPCs never turn away when on approach and will intentionally ram you every time they face you, it's effectively a decision by Frontier to program all their NPCs to be suicidal and kamikaze you.  They're all effectively on the same team against the players; they don't care about their own survival, they just want you dead.

As for having non-multiplayer modes, I've never heard of another multiplayer game that does this.  I agree that they've facilitated it by having a ridiculous peer to peer architecture (which is also facilitating hacking, which they won't address) but that's just laziness.

As for the risk, the risks in the game should be managed, not eliminated.  No, everybody would not be flying the biggest ships and min-maxing them for combat.  People would certainly build them to be more survivable, rather than filling their Type 9 with 100% cargo holds and zero shields, but you can certainly build a cargo ship, miner, or explorer to survive an attack.  I've done that for a while now; I never fly paper airplanes.

As for choosing your fate, people certainly can choose their fate; they can build that cargo ship with shields strong enough to survive until they high wake.  Put good thrusters on so they can boost away while the FSD is charging.

Not sure how small ships would be erased; some of them remain very popular.

 

I get that being jumped might be annoying, but it isn't hard to work around, and given the rebuy system, it's far from a disaster.  I flew my FDL to Shinrarta, unwisely was low on fuel when I got there, had to low wake instead of high wake, and that ended up costing me a rebuy.  With mining that's just not a disaster.

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4 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

The problem is that they haven't balanced the game properly in terms of income.  Higher risk should produce higher reward.  Piracy, smuggling, and bounty hunting should certainly pay out better than mining or trading, but they pay the least out of all trades.  Mining, then exploration, then trade is how you make money.  If the world worked like that, we wouldn't HAVE any criminals.  Making crime pay so poorly is effectively the same as saying they don't want people to pursue criminal trades, which seems rather deceptive given that their marketing specifically mentions these as viable professions in the game.

In terms of PvE, the highest risk you can ever get is exploration. Nothing can beat the risk of holding a billion of exploration data only destroyed by a malfunctioning docking computer (it happened) and dodgy white dwarf exclusion zones. Mining poses little risk since people discover they can mine out of a res zone or even deep space mining, same goes trading. I don't know if this is intended but it seems FD gave chances for players to disengage unwanted combats regardless of game progress. It all comes down to player experiences, no risk are taken unless player are actively trying to put themselves into, so instead of you being hunted down by an Elite FdL while sitting inside a Cobra, they scales ship spawn based on players.

Also high risk should not strictly means higher reward, if Piracy is at such high risk it should pay more than mass trading, either that is morally incorrect or it is fantasy of real world happenings.  As a game of ESRB Teen it could hardly ever promote crime being (if not more) effective than legal ways of making credits. :microdoge: I haven't seen they talked about piracy being a profitable activity aside from "Trying to make every role as profitable as another." Which to a degree they did, they just didn't happen at the same moment. Legal smuggling was first, then mass manual plot trade routes, combat bonds, smuggling missions, trade missions, skimmers mission and now "gold rushes". High risk = high payout seems to easy to me, if you look at how people trade back in the early days you would rather earn fewer and go bounty hunting, risk is only one factor, all other work putting into an activities have their own values, take your time to chart exploration, repeating FSS scans and drop probe thousands of times. Not all interesting things grant you great credits, I have never done a single trade mission after I have gone Elite.

Deceptive, ARX is more deceptive than gameplay changes, not to mention it broke half more than of the game.

4 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Ramming is a viable tactic for one or a few opponents for a Cutter; it isn't a viable approach for the long term in a RES, because of how slowly high power shields regenerate.  Given that NPCs never turn away when on approach and will intentionally ram you every time they face you, it's effectively a decision by Frontier to program all their NPCs to be suicidal and kamikaze you.  They're all effectively on the same team against the players; they don't care about their own survival, they just want you dead.

If you are not carrying cargo and harassing by continuous fire Bi-weave is all it needs by abusing shield regeneration through power distribution in between engagements. A Prismatic requires only of 1 pip into SYS capacitor to not drain it, normal shield requires 2, bi-weave requires 3.  If the PD is charge/SYS engineered 2.5 pip is enough. For Cutter it is very noticable because of a massive Class 8 paired with Class 7 PD. If you want to carry cargo I wouldn't suggest getting into a res zone at all with that size, compromised nav beacon instead.

The NPC didn't try to ram, they tried to vertical strafe, mostly downward circle strafe until they hit a close proximity almost 100 metres then turn around and redo, in most cases you accelerate or flip the ship up so it hits. There used to be a code where if they take damage too quickly they ran away, didn't see them doing that in recent engagements. Wing minions still run away. If they ever did the same as players Corvette can officially go rust.

4 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

As for the risk, the risks in the game should be managed, not eliminated.  No, everybody would not be flying the biggest ships and min-maxing them for combat.  People would certainly build them to be more survivable, rather than filling their Type 9 with 100% cargo holds and zero shields, but you can certainly build a cargo ship, miner, or explorer to survive an attack.  I've done that for a while now; I never fly paper airplanes.

As for choosing your fate, people certainly can choose their fate; they can build that cargo ship with shields strong enough to survive until they high wake.  Put good thrusters on so they can boost away while the FSD is charging.

Not sure how small ships would be erased; some of them remain very popular.

Look at current state of the game, how many people actually fly an Asp Scout? Did you see how people react to Mamba's ninja nerf and going back to FdL instead? This will not happen. Why? Because there are better options out there. Nobody would want to fly a Type 9 instead of a Conda unless they are forced to. In which case, forced multiplayer will force them to because no matter how you kit out a Cow it will never be able to properly protect itself to a semi-competent player. When everything has to be put onto a scatter diagram of profitability * survivability which, forced multiplayer is exactly that, because ultimately there IS a better ship, nobody would be fine sitting in their Type 9 unless they are self-claimed masochist, it will all ended up like one particular online tank game. In simpler terms, metagaming, powercreep, or I can refer as, wasting developed content. Some ship will remain very popular, flip side how many ships will be stepped on to bring those kings and queens up?

Did they developed piracy? I assume not much, but did they developed 28 ships? Player Choosable progression? Enjoyable content without 100% demanding on other players? Let's just say if there is insufficient players to begin with, there can't be even PvP (piracy or whatever). PvP is secondary enjoyment, not primary things straight out of game content. You may have used to flying a more survivable build that is your preferences, or whoever shares the same preferences, does not apply to the whole playerbase. If the game turn multiplayer-only, good bye Frontier give me a refund I enjoy zero to get killed only because of my geographical location garaunteed bad internet. Only when people have their choices taken away they realise the opposite side of their ideals, in this case, I am certain some people are asking too much than respecting other players' preferences when it comes to PvP.

Survivability onion, you all probably more familiar than I do, why get yourself into trouble and make yourself high-wake when you can choose to not be there at all? Multiplayer means I have no choice other than praying everybody is offline. By kitting a ship to run away fast it is almost the core level of “if you be shot at, don’t die”. More importantly, why must somebody else gameplay has to do an effect on me?

4 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

I get that being jumped might be annoying, but it isn't hard to work around, and given the rebuy system, it's far from a disaster.  I flew my FDL to Shinrarta, unwisely was low on fuel when I got there, had to low wake instead of high wake, and that ended up costing me a rebuy.  With mining that's just not a disaster.

So... with mining you will never run out of fuel?:kappa:

I have chosen to NOT step in open anymore due to a lagging scumbag Conda rammed me in a mailslot during my second hour of this game, that's is. It wasn't any disaster by 2019 standard, I managed to wreck my 600mil Cutter from an exclusion zone last week. You do not get the discomfort from dying because of your own stupidity, but you do if there is somebody else involve, particularly you have done nothing illogic in common sense. Imagine you come back from your sweaty day job login to an anarchy station a group of FdL waited outside, boom. You got sent back to the station, go out, boom. I can bet you this will happen because kids probably thinks it is great fun to lock people inside a station and those inside it will ask for a refund. Then there are those Corvettes "I will kill you Imperial sums". Don't forget aside from the money grind, there are superfaction rank grinds, material farm, engineers, tech brokers. Those who have no interest in combat will hate the game the longer they play it.

Some are clearly missing the problems brought by competitiveness, telling people to build a better build is as convincing as just don't be poor. The key issue here being FD doesn't want to force a type of gameplay, profitability isn't all about Elite Dangerous yet people fell for it, once people earned enough, bought their ships and what will they do? Stay inside the bubble harassing other players? This pushes other players to progress, yet they have to progress on survival on top of their gameplay role. It is a game that player themselves set their own goals, undriven by meta-competiveness so only those who want to take part in it went into it and that is how some people like this game for.

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1 hour ago, Unavailebow said:

In terms of PvE, the highest risk you can ever get is exploration. Nothing can beat the risk of holding a billion of exploration data only destroyed by a malfunctioning docking computer (it happened) and dodgy white dwarf exclusion zones. Mining poses little risk since people discover they can mine out of a res zone or even deep space mining, same goes trading. I don't know if this is intended but it seems FD gave chances for players to disengage unwanted combats regardless of game progress. It all comes down to player experiences, no risk are taken unless player are actively trying to put themselves into, so instead of you being hunted down by an Elite FdL while sitting inside a Cobra, they scales ship spawn based on players.

Also high risk should not strictly means higher reward, if Piracy is at such high risk it should pay more than mass trading, either that is morally incorrect or it is fantasy of real world happenings.  As a game of ESRB Teen it could hardly ever promote crime being (if not more) effective than legal ways of making credits. :microdoge: I haven't seen they talked about piracy being a profitable activity aside from "Trying to make every role as profitable as another." Which to a degree they did, they just didn't happen at the same moment. Legal smuggling was first, then mass manual plot trade routes, combat bonds, smuggling missions, trade missions, skimmers mission and now "gold rushes". High risk = high payout seems to easy to me, if you look at how people trade back in the early days you would rather earn fewer and go bounty hunting, risk is only one factor, all other work putting into an activities have their own values, take your time to chart exploration, repeating FSS scans and drop probe thousands of times. Not all interesting things grant you great credits, I have never done a single trade mission after I have gone Elite.

Deceptive, ARX is more deceptive than gameplay changes, not to mention it broke half more than of the game.

If you are not carrying cargo and harassing by continuous fire Bi-weave is all it needs by abusing shield regeneration through power distribution in between engagements. A Prismatic requires only of 1 pip into SYS capacitor to not drain it, normal shield requires 2, bi-weave requires 3.  If the PD is charge/SYS engineered 2.5 pip is enough. For Cutter it is very noticable because of a massive Class 8 paired with Class 7 PD. If you want to carry cargo I wouldn't suggest getting into a res zone at all with that size, compromised nav beacon instead.

The NPC didn't try to ram, they tried to vertical strafe, mostly downward circle strafe until they hit a close proximity almost 100 metres then turn around and redo, in most cases you accelerate or flip the ship up so it hits. There used to be a code where if they take damage too quickly they ran away, didn't see them doing that in recent engagements. Wing minions still run away. If they ever did the same as players Corvette can officially go rust.

Look at current state of the game, how many people actually fly an Asp Scout? Did you see how people react to Mamba's ninja nerf and going back to FdL instead? This will not happen. Why? Because there are better options out there. Nobody would want to fly a Type 9 instead of a Conda unless they are forced to. In which case, forced multiplayer will force them to because no matter how you kit out a Cow it will never be able to properly protect itself to a semi-competent player. When everything has to be put onto a scatter diagram of profitability * survivability which, forced multiplayer is exactly that, because ultimately there IS a better ship, nobody would be fine sitting in their Type 9 unless they are self-claimed masochist, it will all ended up like one particular online tank game. In simpler terms, metagaming, powercreep, or I can refer as, wasting developed content. Some ship will remain very popular, flip side how many ships will be stepped on to bring those kings and queens up?

Did they developed piracy? I assume not much, but did they developed 28 ships? Player Choosable progression? Enjoyable content without 100% demanding on other players? Let's just say if there is insufficient players to begin with, there can't be even PvP (piracy or whatever). PvP is secondary enjoyment, not primary things straight out of game content. You may have used to flying a more survivable build that is your preferences, or whoever shares the same preferences, does not apply to the whole playerbase. If the game turn multiplayer-only, good bye Frontier give me a refund I enjoy zero to get killed only because of my geographical location garaunteed bad internet. Only when people have their choices taken away they realise the opposite side of their ideals, in this case, I am certain some people are asking too much than respecting other players' preferences when it comes to PvP.

Survivability onion, you all probably more familiar than I do, why get yourself into trouble and make yourself high-wake when you can choose to not be there at all? More importantly why must somebody else gameplay has to do an effect on me?

So... with mining you will never run out of fuel?:kappa:

I have chosen to NOT step in open anymore due to a lagging scumbag Conda rammed me in a mailslot during my second hour of this game, that's is. It wasn't any disaster by 2019 standard, I managed to wreck my 600mil Cutter from an exclusion zone last week. You do not get the discomfort from dying because of your own stupidity, but you do if there is somebody else involve, particularly you have done nothing illogic in common sense. Imagine you come back from your sweaty day job login to an anarchy station a group of FdL waited outside, boom. You got sent back to the station, go out, boom. I can bet you this will happen because kids probably thinks it is great fun to lock people inside a station and those inside it will ask for a refund. Then there are those Corvettes "I will kill you Imperial sums". Don't forget aside from the money grind, there are superfaction rank grinds, material farm, engineers, tech brokers. Those who have no interest in combat will hate the game the longer they play it.

Some are clearly missing the problems brought by competitiveness, telling people to build a better build is as convincing as just don't be poor. The key issue here being FD doesn't want to force a type of gameplay, profitability isn't all about Elite Dangerous yet people fell for it, once people earned enough, bought their ships and what will they do? Stay inside the bubble harassing other players? This pushes other players to progress, yet they have to progress on survival on top of their gameplay role. It is a game that player themselves set their own goals, undriven by meta-competiveness so only those who want to take part in it went into it and that is how some people like this game for.

No game like this should ever be designed so that people can eliminate risk.  It’s an inherent part of the game.

If risk and reward were calibrated in real life, we wouldn’t have any criminals at all.

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