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Apparently Frontier is planning to nerf mining in a week or so.  Plans are to buff payouts from combat after that.

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Then I was just in time to try and abuse Painite :D

180 Ly to nearest Painite mining system and then another 180 to Baiawa system to sell for highest price. Mined 10 tons od Painite, but damn tha felt slow. Feels like I would have to sit all day to mine full Cobra of Painite :D

Is it like this for everybody or its just my lack of experience/equipment?

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13 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

Apparently Frontier is planning to nerf mining in a week or so.  Plans are to buff payouts from combat after that.

But we are still in 2020 so chances are there will be quirks, actually, it is Frontier afterall, it bound to have quirks.

So after... how many years? Combat will become the dominant credit earner (or not)? They just keep cycling the dominant methods since release, first it was REZ hunt,then it was jewllery smuggle, trade routes, then combat bond CG (farm with help of capital class), then trade mission, smuggling mission, then deep core mining, then surface mining... oh well.

At least it kept making all the ships useful from time to time.

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13 hours ago, punishersal said:

Then I was just in time to try and abuse Painite :D

180 Ly to nearest Painite mining system and then another 180 to Baiawa system to sell for highest price. Mined 10 tons od Painite, but damn tha felt slow. Feels like I would have to sit all day to mine full Cobra of Painite :D

Is it like this for everybody or its just my lack of experience/equipment?

To be honest, if you're flying something as small as a Cobra, it's gonna be more time-efficient to just sell to a carrier in the system you're mining in; they usually buy for around 715,000 per ton of painite.  Then you can restock on limpets and get right back into the ring.

11 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

But we are still in 2020 so chances are there will be quirks, actually, it is Frontier afterall, it bound to have quirks.

So after... how many years? Combat will become the dominant credit earner (or not)? They just keep cycling the dominant methods since release, first it was REZ hunt,then it was jewllery smuggle, trade routes, then combat bond CG (farm with help of capital class), then trade mission, smuggling mission, then deep core mining, then surface mining... oh well.

At least it kept making all the ships useful from time to time.

This is true.  I mean, it's kinda absurd that just now in 2020 Frontier is coming around to the idea that payouts should be properly scaled to the risk involved in the activity and the skill required.

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On 11/19/2020 at 9:46 AM, FlorbFnarb said:

To be honest, if you're flying something as small as a Cobra, it's gonna be more time-efficient to just sell to a carrier in the system you're mining in; they usually buy for around 715,000 per ton of painite.  Then you can restock on limpets and get right back into the ring.

This is true.  I mean, it's kinda absurd that just now in 2020 Frontier is coming around to the idea that payouts should be properly scaled to the risk involved in the activity and the skill required.

The idea on their head is $/hr, which is fine, because boring stuff will send ppl away, and certainly some activities are bound to be boring, do I put risk factor ahead of boring factor probably not, payout was never the issue for me even for combat related activities, just bored.

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12 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

The idea on their head is $/hr, which is fine, because boring stuff will send ppl away, and certainly some activities are bound to be boring, do I put risk factor ahead of boring factor probably not, payout was never the issue for me even for combat related activities, just bored.

Yeah, problem is that it sounds like (I'm hearing things second-hand) that they're aiming to make all activities generate money equally, which seems like an odd reward structure in a game; it really leaves little reward for skill if top-tier laser mining in a Cutter or Type 9 generates the same $/hour as Thargoid-hunting and other high risk activities.

But I agree that boredom is a factor.  I'm still only at like 1.4 billion in cash, I think, despite having a fully kitted Cutter devoted to laser mining, because it takes me a couple hours to fill all 512 tons of cargo space, and frankly, it gets old.  The first time was kinda fun, I just listened to Waylon Jennings on Pandora (country music is the most appropriate music for mining and such, I think) and zapped asteroids, but I was ready to be done with it by the time I was full.  The second time kinda dragged earlier on, and I haven't taken it out for a third mining trip, because HOLY SHIT it takes a long time to fill 512 tons.\

If they get it so I can start making 80 million an hour doing CZs or clearing HAZRESes or something, I'll be happy.  Hell, that would make me get a handle on Thargoid hunting; as it stands I've only ever killed Scouts.

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On 11/21/2020 at 10:36 AM, FlorbFnarb said:

Yeah, problem is that it sounds like (I'm hearing things second-hand) that they're aiming to make all activities generate money equally, which seems like an odd reward structure in a game; it really leaves little reward for skill if top-tier laser mining in a Cutter or Type 9 generates the same $/hour as Thargoid-hunting and other high risk activities.

But I agree that boredom is a factor.  I'm still only at like 1.4 billion in cash, I think, despite having a fully kitted Cutter devoted to laser mining, because it takes me a couple hours to fill all 512 tons of cargo space, and frankly, it gets old.  The first time was kinda fun, I just listened to Waylon Jennings on Pandora (country music is the most appropriate music for mining and such, I think) and zapped asteroids, but I was ready to be done with it by the time I was full.  The second time kinda dragged earlier on, and I haven't taken it out for a third mining trip, because HOLY SHIT it takes a long time to fill 512 tons.\

If they get it so I can start making 80 million an hour doing CZs or clearing HAZRESes or something, I'll be happy.  Hell, that would make me get a handle on Thargoid hunting; as it stands I've only ever killed Scouts.

Most of my current assets, were from Sothis, got my two Condas from there, and my first Cutter within a month. The remaining ones were from skimmers, and mining. Can't tell how bored I was when I did those, weren't as profitable as nowadays 100mil+ methods either. Those were only rougly 60mil/hr with a Cutter.

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I jumped Painite mine train and in several runs with Cobra(including 1 without shields for extra 16 tons), I made enough for nearly 4 Pytons.

Somewhere deep in conciousness it seemed that it was wrong. It just felt that it shouldnt be that really easy to get this rich and buy whatever ship I want(except faction ones)

Got Python and so far except for large cargo it doesnt seem that fun. Havent outfitted it really because low jump range surprised me. 

 

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10 hours ago, punishersal said:

I jumped Painite mine train and in several runs with Cobra(including 1 without shields for extra 16 tons), I made enough for nearly 4 Pytons.

Somewhere deep in conciousness it seemed that it was wrong. It just felt that it shouldnt be that really easy to get this rich and buy whatever ship I want(except faction ones)

Got Python and so far except for large cargo it doesnt seem that fun. Havent outfitted it really because low jump range surprised me. 

I have watched Elite long enough to know money grind should not be a thing at all. Not because of players should or shouldn't progress at a certain pace, is that smaller ships generally don't have an advantage over large ship (understably so.), you cannot balance a ship's cost and operational cost by yet another cost (rebuy). Think of jump range, nobody will say Conda's jump range is overkill in this 20,000+ Ly diameter Milky Way. The only noticeable different is when ships are in combat, other than that, no such thing small ships can do larger ships cannot manage.

CR was always a big issue for Elite because Elite itself was never intented to be focusing on that, but variety of activities not locked behind CR wall. That doesn't stop people liking their small ships and personally I prefer this as a state of game than, having large ships locked behind a 1000hr CR grind as it has taken away again, player's ability to choose what they want to fly with in this vast emptiness. Might not sound very good to the game's longevity, yet it doesn't stop AspX being the most flew ship among CMDRs, instead of anything bigger.

Python needs that Guardian FSD booster. Price tag wise, most expensive ship to run a Class 5 FSD, not the heaviest, rather light actually,, jump range sits right in the middle among all Class 5 FSD ships, but because it can hold the 2nd most cargo plus a few Class 7 modules, you start to lose quite a bit of jump range.

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11 hours ago, punishersal said:

I jumped Painite mine train and in several runs with Cobra(including 1 without shields for extra 16 tons), I made enough for nearly 4 Pytons.

Somewhere deep in conciousness it seemed that it was wrong. It just felt that it shouldnt be that really easy to get this rich and buy whatever ship I want(except faction ones)

Got Python and so far except for large cargo it doesnt seem that fun. Havent outfitted it really because low jump range surprised me. 

 

50 minutes ago, Unavailebow said:

I have watched Elite long enough to know money grind should not be a thing at all. Not because of players should or shouldn't progress at a certain pace, is that smaller ships generally don't have an advantage over large ship (understably so.), you cannot balance a ship's cost and operational cost by yet another cost (rebuy). Think of jump range, nobody will say Conda's jump range is overkill in this 20,000+ Ly diameter Milky Way. The only noticeable different is when ships are in combat, other than that, no such thing small ships can do larger ships cannot manage.

CR was always a big issue for Elite because Elite itself was never intented to be focusing on that, but variety of activities not locked behind CR wall. That doesn't stop people liking their small ships and personally I prefer this as a state of game than, having large ships locked behind a 1000hr CR grind as it has taken away again, player's ability to choose what they want to fly with in this vast emptiness. Might not sound very good to the game's longevity, yet it doesn't stop AspX being the most flew ship among CMDRs, instead of anything bigger.

Python needs that Guardian FSD booster. Price tag wise, most expensive ship to run a Class 5 FSD, not the heaviest, rather light actually,, jump range sits right in the middle among all Class 5 FSD ships, but because it can hold the 2nd most cargo plus a few Class 7 modules, you start to lose quite a bit of jump range.

To be honest, Frontier has never gotten balance right.  The payouts don't scale with risk and skill requirements, and people get locked into loops of dull gameplay (laser mining, Sothis passenger runs) where you do the same thing over and over and over again to get more money because all there is to do to give some variety and spice to the game is get new ships and kit them out differently.

So they're faced with the choices of (1) have money flow slowly and make people grind forever and a day to get the ships they want, or (2) have money flow slowly enough to be dull but still quickly enough that people can get any ship they want in very little time.

They chose (2) and there are consequences of that:

  1. Credits cease to be a balancing factor; once you start making real money mining or doing passenger runs, another rebuy means nothing.  I have 1.3 billion astro-dollars.  I could blow my Cutters up quite a few times before running short on space-monies.
  2. To limit how fast people can get serious ships, there have to be other resources to grind for: specifically, power reputation for the Imperial and Federation ships, and materials - both of which are deadly dull grinds.
  3. Combine those two points and you have a situation where people can get almost any ship they want in very short order and A-rate it completely, but two ships (Cutter and Corvette) are locked behind rep-grinds, and even with the other ships, an A-rated but unengineered ship absolutely sucks.  I'd put a properly engineered Vulture up against an A-rated but unengineered FDL any day of the week, given equally skilled pilots.
  4. Also: combat winds up being something you treat as a fun activity that makes no money, because that's what it is.   Potentially fun and complex game modes like smuggling are as thin as paper, to the point that there's little point in doing them, and a vast percentage of the man-hours being logged in the game are (1) going exploring to see one essentially identical system after another, and when that gets dull, (2) lasering rocks in Solo (not me, but other people) to rack up more money.

The game is damned fun in some ways, and a deadly dull rat race in others.  It comes off as shockingly unfinished and unbalanced for a game this old.

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Aaaarrgh, those damn flying times to reach location just take away fun for me. Whatever I try doing, requires staring at screen for minutes or doing something else besides game while my ship reaches location.

Game is ok, I just cant stand those fly times.

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5 hours ago, punishersal said:

Aaaarrgh, those damn flying times to reach location just take away fun for me. Whatever I try doing, requires staring at screen for minutes or doing something else besides game while my ship reaches location.

Game is ok, I just cant stand those fly times.

The very first Guardian module you should unlock is the Guardian FSD booster.  First engineer of course is Felicity.  I have an AspX that has a jump range over 60 LY.  Makes getting around a lot easier.

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I have engineered FSD to 4th class on Python atm. I get about 24ly jump range with outfitted Python which is enough for me. No problems with that. I dont think I need much more because not doing serious exploration and all the missions I get are within my jump range, except passengers but I ditched those.

I meant in-system flying times. 10k Ls distances (I have had several 100k Ls+) is long enough to start doing other stuff but I cant if Iam carrying cargo because of possible interdiction. Its fun to rip apart ships with 3x MCs when they interdict me (except condas so far) though.

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21 hours ago, punishersal said:

I have engineered FSD to 4th class on Python atm. I get about 24ly jump range with outfitted Python which is enough for me. No problems with that. I dont think I need much more because not doing serious exploration and all the missions I get are within my jump range, except passengers but I ditched those.

I meant in-system flying times. 10k Ls distances (I have had several 100k Ls+) is long enough to start doing other stuff but I cant if Iam carrying cargo because of possible interdiction. Its fun to rip apart ships with 3x MCs when they interdict me (except condas so far) though.

Oh man, I avoid 100k LS trips like the plague.  Has anybody told you you ought to make the trip to Hutton Orbital yet?  Avoid it.  It's like an hour trip to get there, just from the in-system flight.

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9 hours ago, punishersal said:

Yeah, I have heard about Hutton orbital and free Condas somewhere too :D

One of gaming press sites had article about it, iirc.

Ah yes.  The key there is you have to fly a large ship out to Hutton and exchange it for the free Anaconda.  I always tell the noobs to buy a stock Type 7 and fly it out there to exchange. :trump:

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