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Whole_Nutmeg

Stick vs Auto

  

114 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of car do you drive?

    • Auto
      37
    • Manual
      67
    • I don't drive
      10
  2. 2. What kind of car do you prefer to drive?

    • Auto
      20
    • Manual
      88
    • I don't drive
      6


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Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah, that only works if you have a fair bit of space ahead of you. Most of the times you need brakes you kinda need them NOW and no amount of down-gearing and clutch play is going to make up for the fact that you're travelling too fast towards something that is either stationary or moving slowly. I guess you could always try the hand-brake and hope for the best tho.

 

Drop it into Reverse and punch it.  =D

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Auto have the nice feature of park, yeah you may wipe out your tranny, but that has to be cheaper than hitting someone

Probably will do nothing but make your transmission click furiously.  

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Majority of cars in the UK are manual although there are more autos now compared with 15-20 years ago.

 

Prefer a 'stick' as you call it on almost everything, what I am used to and prefer the direct drive if that make sense.

 

On my trucks I don't mind either, used to all of them from the old Eaton Twin Splitter (crash box) however the newer ones with the air actuated manual boxes, particularly the Volvo I drive are very good.

In essence a manual box and clutch controlled by computer, two pedals like an auto however it pulls away using the clutch like a manual. The Volvo is particularly good since it has very good clutch control enabling fine maneuvers on the clutch at low speed shunting.

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Auto have the nice feature of park, yeah you may wipe out your tranny, but that has to be cheaper than hitting someone

 

 

Probably will do nothing but make your transmission click furiously.  

 

 

Right.  Have tried it a few times in rentals.  Car either does nothing/clicks, or actively prevents you from putting it in P.  

 

 

 

As far as engine braking goes... it depends on the nature of the manual.  Older manual in the US still had one or two low gears you could lock the car into.  Not sure how well it would work if you shifted into one of them while going fast.  Newer, semi autos?  I drove down a mountain in my rental Challenger last weekend.  Used the manual override to keep it in second.  Let me maintain a nice, controlled 22-25mph (lots of narrow, blind curves, wouldn't want to go much faster) without riding the brakes.  Not sure what it would do if I downshifted like mad when at speed.  Brakes are big and powerful enough that I'd likely never try a downshift instead (or in addition to) braking.  

 

In the days of near-universal anti-lock brakes, I can't see a reason to engine brake.  You're putting wear on expensive to replace parts, instead of the much cheaper brake pads.  Unless you're on the track and braking affects your handling differently than downshifting (or you simply want to come out of a turn at high RPM), or maybe driving an industrial vehicle with a serious load...

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Also don't break long and easy like pussy, you will overheat brakes.

 

I don't buy this at all, it's a simple matter of conservation of energy.

 

You brake, the kinetic energy of the car gets converted to heat. Whether you brake over ten metres or one-hundred metres, you are still converting the same amout of kinetic energy into the same amount of heat. However, over 100 metres you have an order of magnitude longer for that energy to be radiated out of the brake pads/discs rather than all being dumped in there in the space of a second.

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Probably will do nothing but make your transmission click furiously.  

Depending on direction of movement, and how the locking pawl is designed, probably.

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Even trucks don't use only motor as break, they have other systems....

 

Brakes are cheap, use it.

 

Also don't break long and easy like pussy, you will overheat brakes.

Maybe Euro trucks don't, but US CDL training requires you to downshift ie use the engine as a brake.

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Maybe Euro trucks don't, but US CDL training requires you to downshift ie use the engine as a brake.

 

Key word was ONLY.  

 

Brakes+downshift, especially on city roads that might require you to drop from 45-50 pretty quickly at red lights.  But that's a large truck with a back-heavy load.  No point engine braking in cars.

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 But that's a large truck with a back-heavy load.  No point engine braking in cars.

 

Why use engine brake in cars:

  • Saves fuel. With the engine over 1500 rpm and throttle shut the ECU will cut off fuel completely
  • Saves wear on your brakes
  • Saves heat on your brakes -- if you're on a track or a curvy mountain road you're preserving your own braking power as the engine deals with excess heat much better
  • It's pretty fucking cool to spike the throttle and bump the engine to 5000 rpm to rev-match the gear you're about to downshift into then hear the whine as it decelerates
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I don't buy this at all, it's a simple matter of conservation of energy.

 

You brake, the kinetic energy of the car gets converted to heat. Whether you brake over ten metres or one-hundred metres, you are still converting the same amout of kinetic energy into the same amount of heat. However, over 100 metres you have an order of magnitude longer for that energy to be radiated out of the brake pads/discs rather than all being dumped in there in the space of a second.

 

Try driving a long (and I mean damn long, think Norway) steep downhill while keeping, say 80 km/h, and only use brakes softly to keep that speed. You'll notice during or by the end of the downhill, that your brakes aren't as effective because of that heat being retained through constant friction. If you're braking "hard and fast" that heat in discs/pads gets to cool down in between.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade#Controlling_fade_through_driving_technique

 

Auto's are capable of engine-braking and has been for some time. You'll have to go far back in time to not find it possible to select a lower gear and keeping it there. This has also been quite intelligent to prevent damage to engine/gearbox for some time.

Using the engine to brake in downhills doesn't wear all that much, and as a byproduct of engine-braking, you'll save on fuel. (Unless you're driving an older carburated car).

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Talking about trucks reminds me about the fact that the area I work in combines the following three features:

  • Industrial area, so lots of big-ass trucks around
  • Narrow roads (Like just barely 2 lanes, more often 1.5 lanes with all the cars parked)
  • Tight corners

As a result I've seen no small amount of trucks stuck in weird turns they can't get out of or manage to make crazy U-turns that look impossible :-)

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A friend of mine let me drive his 1969 land rover series 2a (defender before it was named that way) and that thing had 4 speed manual gearbox with unsynchronised gears. Im glad we dont have to drive that any more, double clutching and matching revs is PITA.

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I don't buy this at all, it's a simple matter of conservation of energy.

You brake, the kinetic energy of the car gets converted to heat. Whether you brake over ten metres or one-hundred metres, you are still converting the same amout of kinetic energy into the same amount of heat. However, over 100 metres you have an order of magnitude longer for that energy to be radiated out of the brake pads/discs rather than all being dumped in there in the space of a second.

It's a question of temperature: yes, it's the same amount of kinetic energy converted into the same amount of heat energy, but doing it faster means you reach higher temperatures.

Engine braking is done to reduce wear on brakes during long downhill grades; downshift and allow the engine to take some of the braking load instead of forcing the brakes to do it all. It's also a safety technique when in bad weather - especially when driving downhill in bad weather.

True FlorbStory™: I used to be a news photographer for a television station. It was a slow news day in the winter, and it was snowing heavily. Our story for the day was about the weather (snow accumulation was supposed to be significant). A producer asked me "Hey, can you get a live shot for us up on X Mountain?" X Mountain is a small mountain right on the edge of the city, and has a good overlook that has a good view of the city center, and we used to get live shots there all the time. I said "yeah", and we went up there to do the live shot. The snow was coming down pretty heavy and there were several inches accumulated by the time we were done with the shot, I believe. I dropped the microwave mast, my reporter and I packed up the gear, and I got back into the driver's seat.

And the first thought that entered my head and came out my mouth was What the fuck did I just do to us? <facepalm>

As I said, I had agreed to go do a live shot on a mountaintop, while it was snowing.

Fuck. "Put your seatbelt on, dammit." The truck is a regular old van, but it's overweighted with transmission equipment and editing equipment in the back, and a little topheavy with a microwave mast and dish. I put it in 1st gear - automatic first, not stick - and gingerly bring it down this curvy mountain road that is part of the U.S. Parkway system. I bet I never broke 10 mph coming down the twisty mountain road covered with snow, in an overweight, topheavy van.

I got back and told the producer "please don't ever ask for another live shot on X Mountain when it's snowing, because some dumbass like me might say yes. She looked at me and said "Oh...yeah. Good point."

Long story short: Learn when to use engine braking in an automatic.

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I loathe driving.

Have a car is basically required around here, but walking to work and around town is infinitely preferable.  

 

I can drive a stick, but will never buy one.  Even when driving in Colorado, running brakes down the mountains was unnecessary because there were sufficient gear limiting options on the cars I drove.  Well, usually.  Coming down from the mountains near Golden, there was a slope that required low gearing AND brakes, but only one.  

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Please do quick test, go to downhill road (you can take family car) and just put in second gear and lift off, watch RPM and tell me what you saw ;) it's ok for small declines but on greater declines it goes to red line. Again use brakes.

It's pretty cool if you can rev match, but again believe me, 99% people can't do that.

 

Bajaz001 confirms, I'm purple unicorn driver.

 

I used to drive my M3 on the track until I blew its engine. Not saying I did that on the street (only sometimes)

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I loathe driving.

Have a car is basically required around here, but walking to work and around town is infinitely preferable.  

 

I can drive a stick, but will never buy one.  Even when driving in Colorado, running brakes down the mountains was unnecessary because there were sufficient gear limiting options on the cars I drove.  Well, usually.  Coming down from the mountains near Golden, there was a slope that required low gearing AND brakes, but only one.  

 

I too am not a fan. It might have something to do with living in a city with notably terrible traffic.

 

I try to take the train to work. A monthly train ticket costs me R260 (About $20), while driving in for a while month costs over R2000 ($180 or so) in petrol. It's a no brainer.

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I live in Australia, so driving is a necessity. We don't have many hills but engine breaking is something I use in every day driving (with a "stick") it's easier then using the break.

I think most of us are forgetting, to do mad power skids/burnouts. A manual (stick) is required. (YouTube summernats burnouts for examples of burnt rubber and bogans)

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I tend to avoid driving as much as possible, but my reasons are mostly gas prices. It costs 1.50$ per liter of 95 oct gasoline (that is the cheapest one) or to put it in the terms of wrong imperial units, its 5.68$ per gallon. So i spend most of my commuting during spring, summer and fall on a bicycle.

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My Ute (Truck to you bloody Americunts,) is currently in the smash shop getting repaired. Insurance is paying for a loan car which arrived today, they said they would get me something similar to mine, nek minnut. Toyota Corolla in my driveway, petrol automatic and I feel like a vagina driving around in it.

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A friend of mine let me drive his 1969 land rover series 2a (defender before it was named that way) and that thing had 4 speed manual gearbox with unsynchronised gears. Im glad we dont have to drive that any more, double clutching and matching revs is PITA.

 

Now imagine an early 70's MB U406. 22 gear cascade transmission.

When driving that thing in some of the mountains around Arizona, you need four arms, or you go REALLY slow.

 

I'm going to bet that Landy had (at one time) a synchro box, but that the synchro clutches were long gone.  I had a 66 Nissan Patrol that was that way.

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But only if you push hard and don't have any electronics. Most modern cars have, so no biggie.

But that's again problem with drivers, and wrong reactions due lack of experience.

Best experience for me when I was learning to drive (I was 12 and living on my uncles farm) was to go 80-90kph in a paddock and forcibly lose control, and try to regain control whilst spinning and sliding. Taught me car control and how to react in an appropriate way. Ie don't slam on to the brakes. Mind you we have a lot of unsealed roads in Australia (in the "bush") so it's something I believe everyone should learn.

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