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Please kill me.

 

OVERVIEW

This is a self-imposed challenge to play one of the worst kinds of tank in the game - those that can only equip autocannons - and see how successful they can be across hundreds of solo random battles.

 

BACKGROUND

I've never played any of these tanks before, not even on the test server. I think they're all total garbage because I see autocannons as one of the worst kinds of guns for several reasons and these tanks can only use autocannons. The things which ruin autocannons the most are their poor range, poor penetration, poor accuracy, and long between-clips reload that leaves you unable to effectively fight back or threaten opponents, all of which is the cost for some burst. Each drawback is costly - poor range and accuracy shuts you out from hitting targets at a (safe) distance, long reloads leave you vulnerable to retaliation and make dealing with rushes infeasible, and weak penetration straight-out ruins your ability to penetrate some tanks while jeopardizing your burst against even some meagerly armored targets. This does not lend to a play style which I think can consistently perform well, and this challenge is an active effort to prove myself wrong.

 

THE CHALLENGE

The challenge will cover my playing 100 battles in each of the Pz. I, Light VIC, T7 Combat Car, Pz. II D, and Pz. II in that order. I chose this order primarily to start with what I consider to be the worst of the bunch and move towards the best.

The goal will be to obtain a 66% win rate overall (previously considered 70%, but felt it was too ambitious) under the following conditions:

  • Pure solopub
  • Any equipment/consumables/camo
  • No more than 25% loadout of gold ammo
  • 75% crew to start with (with exception to the Pz. II that will inherit the crew of the Pz. II D)

Replays of each set of 100 battles and a record of my performance in each battle will be posted when finished with each tank.

 

THE RESULTS

Pz. I

INITIAL THOUGHTS

Playing this is going to be a disaster. I consider this to be the worst tank of the tier, and on re-examining my tier list and trying to understand its place below the Light VIC, I think I remember why: underwhelming firepower. There's little point in trading off so many good things about a standard cannon for a garbage autocannon if the burst that you get out of it is weak, which is precisely the case here. Another big concern is the slow turret traverse. It's not as though this tank is going to win any kind of brawl, but having a slow turret sure isn't going to help the matter. Also, since this is not a premium tank, unlike the three I will play after this one, my 75% crew is not going to get up to speed very quickly at all.

My plan for this tank is to leverage the one advantage I know this tank has: view range. I will try to do what I can to reach positions where I can spot many enemies for my team to hit, but not being able to do much damage from a distance and leaving that up to my team worries me that it won't be a consistently winning strategy. At the very least, this already lends well to my current playstyle and will allow me to ease into figuring out how to make the autocannon do work.

 

SETUP

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The setup for each tank is almost completely the same, so I'll break it down here once.

There are seven options for equipment available on each tank. Two tanks also can use torsion bars/springs, but that's not important enough. Right away, I think I can rule out camo net since I'll be moving around a lot and toolbox because it doesn't do enough. I also think vents and GLD are easy picks to do what little is possible to improve my damage. This leaves spall, optics, and telescope. I gave consideration to spall for the Pz. I since there are only two crew members and it would help prevent sudden knockouts, but decided that dying to damage was likely enough that spall wouldn't be of much impact.

Despite not wanting to run a camo net, using binocs is worth considering, particularly on the Pz. I with its 320m view range, because that edge in extra view range can be valuable for allowing my teammates who are all likely to be running better tanks to have shots on spotted enemies, even if I don't. I went with the optics anyways because I'd rather rely on making myself effective and not worry about pubs who probably wouldn't utilize the advantages I present them anyways.

The only other thing worth mentioning that is a difference from other tanks is that I'm running a large medpack instead of an auto extinguisher. The spall may not be worth the equipment slot, but the med pack certainly feels that it is.

 

BATTLE RESULTS

Replays

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FINAL VERDICT

 

I did way better with this tank than I could have expected.  Ultimately, I believe I was carried pretty hard in this by my teams, which seemed most evident after the last set of 25 battles wherein my teammates kept doing dumb shit and I couldn't recover the wins, resulting in a bad series of matches that brought my winrate down from ~77% to 68%.  It also helped to fight so many T7 Cars which, while having a sloped front that can bounce many shots, still has weak armor overall that can be easily penetrated elsewhere.  I killed T18s second-most, which was only ever possible by spamming gold through the lightly armored upper plate or getting good side shots.

Speaking of spamming gold, boy howdy is there a lot of that in tier 2.  I couldn't believe how many times my damage announcer would tell me that I was being hit with gold ammo, which doesn't seem like it would ever be necessary against the Pz. I.

The outcome of the battle often felt out of my hands in this tank, though there were still times when I was able to do great work.  The gun was horrible.  I didn't realize the burst on this was so slow.  The one nice thing about it was how comfortable I felt in reloading it often when I wouldn't get out a whole clip on something.  The view range was a godsend, workable enough to enable my team to do some damage when they were feeling up to it.

Despite the overall satisfying result, I still say this is the worst tank of the tier, but perhaps will need to revoke statements about the preferential matchmaking not helping.  It absolutely wouldn't be playable without that.

 

Light VIC

INITIAL THOUGHTS

The greatest problem I face with this tank is the low ammo count. The bust is good, but only having ten full bursts worth of ammo, no chance of shooting gold, and a long reload between clips means that I will have to play extremely conservatively and efficiently to make good on this tank.

I still will have decent enough view range to be playing this as a support spotter, so I may start with that. On the other hand, the burst and speed of this tank will probably be good enough that I can make some aggressive plays, though only in certain areas where I can count on hard cover. I think this tank has the greatest chance of defying expectations in a good way.

 

SETUP

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See Pz. I setup for more info.

 

BATTLE RESULTS

Replays

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FINAL VERDICT

This tank stands up pretty well as long as you aren't caught in the middle of a reload and don't face any French armor or T18s.  The view range was still sufficient to do some passive scouting, but not great enough to have confidence in winning the vision game against better suited tanks.  I figured the biggest issue with this tank would be the low ammo count, but without spamming shells needlessly or blind firing, I never really ran into such an issue.  The only problem with the ammo is that no amount of it will make this tank stand up against something that bounces >95% of its shells.

What stood out most was the inability of this tank to close out games.  I had four draws on Province, and I felt each time that I could have closed out the game if I'd had more view range to be confident enough to move out of cover, or had more maneuverability to get up and down slopes more quickly.

My average damage and frags were each better than I did with the Pz. I, and I attribute this to the gun's burst being much better than that of the Pz. I.  It's hard to choose between the two, one being capable of taking everything down slowly, or the other being capable of taking down only weak targets quickly.  The best choice is, of course, not to be playing with autocannons in the first place.  In any case, the extra strength of the burst was not enough to make a greater impact on the game, or at least enough to counteract the loss of view range, because my winrate was hardly better than with the Pz. I.  I would actually say I was worse off with this tank because of how incapable I felt in playing Province sometimes.

 

T7 Combat Car

INITIAL THOUGHTS

This tank seems like it has enough ammo that I can choose to spray targets as much as I like, though the long clip reload still means I have to be careful about what I engage, when I reload, and how deep into a clip I'm willing to manually begin another reload.

There's no great view range for this tank, so I'll have to play it aggressively. I'm going to count on the fear factor of a 50-round clip to carry me through playing this one.

 

SETUP

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See Pz. I setup for more info.

 

BATTLE RESULTS

Replays

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FINAL VERDICT

This started out as the worst experience yet.  I want to blame it on my weak crew causing my reload to take nearly three seconds longer than it would at full proficiency, but it likely has more to do with this tank being marginally worse than the VIC in several significant ways such as view range, reload, turret traverse, and size.  Signal range also felt lacking enough that I picked up Signal Boosting on my radioman to make it not so awful.

I eventually got the hang of this tank, and playing it wasn't much different from how I played the VIC, though the most significant difference in results probably came from the difference in view range.  I ended up taking much the same spotting positions as I did with the VIC despite this, because those were still decent positions from which to dump a clip and get into cover.  This tank is just as bad at closing out games, if not worse.  I probably could have had two or three more draws if I'd been any slower at getting to the enemy cap before running out of enough time to finish the capture.

I was inclined to say that this was actually the worst of the bunch, but looking back at how I performed in the Pz. I and how lucky I was to get such a good win rate with it, I should reaffirm that the Pz. I is still the worst.  What made me sure of this was comparing the amount of assisted damage in the Pz. I and the T7.  The Pz. I did only 11 more damage in this way while being 45 damage behind in direct damage.  I would have expected the 320m view range to go further in being able to spot enemies and provide support to the team, but that simply did not materialize and did not contribute more to the team's overall damage than the T7's burst capability.  Based on how I performed, I think my win rate in the Pz. I is higher than it should have been and my win rate in the T7 is only slightly worse than it could have been.

 

Pz. II D

INITIAL THOUGHTS

This tank will bring two new things to me: having armor to work with to bounce some enemy shells, and playing against tier 3s who won't give a thought to that armor. What surprised me the most about this tank was that I somehow didn't realize that the penetration on this tank is the worst of the bunch. Being able to fire gold ammo to compensate compared to the other two premiums is likely what made me forget. The health pool being so large seems nice, but it's probably just another distraction to make me forget that the frontal armor isn't quite the same bouncy front as the Pz. II has.

Lessons from the Pz. I in spotting for my team and in the two previous premiums in being aggressive should give me enough experience to figure out what direction I want to take this tank in. It will probably be some blend of playing aggressively in battles of the same tier and passively against tanks of higher tiers. Still, the weak penetration of this tank concerns me, and makes this tank the most likely of them all to defy expectations in a bad way.

 

SETUP

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I initially wanted to set 20% as the limit for gold ammo use, but I felt that this tank would be too risky to play with only three clips worth of semi-reliable ammo, so I upped it to 25% just to get another clips worth on this.

 

BATTLE RESULTS

Replays

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FINAL VERDICT

Man, fuck this tank.  I can't believe that I thought this was nearly on the same level as the Pz. II.  My reason for thinking that was purely based on this having some amount of armor akin to the Pz. II, but it's all-around worse, particularly in the turret.  It's so much worse that it hardly even counts as effective armor, bouncing practically nothing that I came across except other Pz. II Ds.  My biggest mistake in first evaluating this tank was not paying attention to the penetration, the worst of anything in the tier from what I can recall, though only narrowly being beaten by the D1.  You can solve this problem by spamming gold ammo in this tank, but that's never a good solution and still doesn't make up for things like the low ammo capacity or the bad and vulnerable engine.  Speaking of this tank's engine, it gets busted often, same as its ammo rack, and crew members are similarly easy to lose.

If you compare this tank to the Pz. I, which I previously held as being the worst tank of the tier, it's easy to see why I now think this tank is the worst.  The most significant differences are the penetration and premium matchmaking.  I'm a little hazy on my history, but I believe this tank was released around the same time that WG was starting to not want to put out any more tanks with preferential matchmaking.  It was also some time during or after the T7 Car and Light VIC had their penetrations buffed to 27 from whatever low 20s values they were at before.  The preferential matchmaking for those tanks seemed sensible with how low their penetration was, and they are still deserving of it at 27mm penetration, especially with their lack of gold ammo.  It's strange though that the Pz. I doesn't have nearly as bad standard penetration, has gold ammo, and gets preferential MM while the Pz. II D has worse penetration in both regards and no preferential MM.  Starting with a Pz. I, the compensation given to the Pz. II D for having to face tier 3s is to lose 4mm penetration on standard ammo, lose 1mm penetration on gold ammo, take one second more to reload, lose .06 on accuracy, cut signal range by 100m, and lose a quarter of its ammo capacity and effective horsepower.  But at least it gets some 30mm plates that tier 3s give no fucks about and 50 more health to feed into tier 3s' damage dealt.

Absolutely rotten tank, absolutely rotten experience playing it.  If this had preferential matchmaking, I'd be willing to place it on par with the Pz. I as a more tanky yet less powerful option, but as it stands, this is certainly the worst tank of tier 2.

 

Pz. II

INITIAL THOUGHTS

This is, by far, the king of tier 2 autocannon tanks. Penetration is decent and there's enough shells to be relevant for the whole battle. View range is top of the line and speed is decent. The front provides fair protection from other autocannon tanks and even from some of the weaker cannons. As an added bonus for this challenge, the crew I use in this tank (probably) won't be so severely gimped, so I should get to feel the real power of this tank right away.

This is my last hope and catch-up tank. If I fail miserably with any of the other tanks, this will be my best chance at redeeming myself, and I'll have all the knowledge gained from playing everything before it to figure out how to best succeed. Also, if there is any chance of making me feel like autocannons and the tanks that use them aren't all absolute shit, this would be the tank most likely to change my mind.

It probably won't succeed at that.

 

SETUP

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BATTLE RESULTS

Replays

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FINAL VERDICT

I have mixed feelings about the results with this tank, which all revolve around how a universally better performance in everything that seemed like it would matter did not result in a better win rate than I had done in the Pz. II D.  It disappoints me in and of itself that better performance did not result in a better win rate, and that despite similar exposure to the same standard matchmaking with better averages in kills and damage, my win rate did not similarly improve.  On the other hand, it provides a rather satisfying result, given the meta at the time of playing this tank.  The introduction and flood into tier 3 matches of the BT-7 art presented a contender which the Pz. II does not match up well against.  The frontal armor of the Pz. II is sometimes and somewhat capable of preventing a BT-7 art's shell from simply being a one-shot, commonly dropping the damage down to the 30-60 range.  However, the superior mobility and health pool of the BT-7 art has a great tendency to win out against a Pz. II in any one-on-one engagement (which could simply be seen as natural, given their assigned tiers).  Also, because of the nature of these two tanks, I often had to play on the front lines against many of these of tanks, which were also often played on the front lines, resulting in having rather limited options to contend with or trade well against them.  The overall impact of this tank on the meta for me was a negative as it provided an easy means for many people to do damage to me that they may not have otherwise been able to get away with in other tanks.

Stepping back to compare it to the other tanks of this challenge, this tank is the clear winner in terms of raw performance, as anyone could have guessed from the very start.  I feel though that in terms of degree, I was not able to demonstrate how much better this tank truly is than the next best tank, which again goes back to the meta.  I was surprised at first that I did not provide as much assisted damage in this tank as I had in the premium variant, but that can likely be explained by this tank actually having the penetration to do its own damage instead of relying on everyone else most of the time.

 

Stats Breakdown

TANK WIN RATES

Pz. I - 68% (1 draw)

Light VIC - 69% (4 draws)

T7 Combat Car - 65% (3 draws)

Pz. II D - 63% (3 draws)

Pz. II - 63% (4 draws)

Total - 65.6% (328/500) - CHALLENGE FAILURE

 

MAP WIN RATES

Himmelsdorf - 60.2% (59/98)

Mines - 69.9% (72/103) (1 draw)

Malinovka - 69% (69/100) (1 draw)

Province - 61.3% (76/124) (13 draws)

Ensk - 82.6% (19/23)

Karelia - 56.3% (9/16)

Prokhorovka - 62.5% (10/16)

Shittentard - 70% (14/20)

 

SHOTS FIRED

Pz. I - 84.3 average (35.1%), 216 max (90%)

Light VIC - 141.9 average (35.5%), 370 max (92.5%)

T7 Combat Car - 144.9 average (10.7%), 410 max (30.4%)

Pz. II D - 71.6 average (39.8%), 174 max (96.7%)

Pz. II - 81.0 average (25.3%), 206 max (64.4%)

 

CONCLUSION

If you had asked me when I set out to do this challenge whether I thought I would be successful or not, I would have had no doubt in my mind that I would be.  Granted, I first set out a goal of hitting 70%, which I realized in the days after was more than farfetched, and so knocked it down to a more reasonable 66%.  I felt good about my chances after the Pz. I was done and even better past the Light VIC, a tank which I'll even admit was sometimes enjoyable to play.  The T7 Car was a hiccup and the Pz. II D a miscalculation.  Still, going into the Pz. II, I would have been sure from my experience of the last four and in seeing other people playing this tank that I could still reach a successful outcome.  In fact, had I not been so worried about when 9.9 was going to drop and had I not waited an entire month between the Light VIC and T7 Car to continue this challenge, I'm sure I would have finished successfully and without much interesting happening or to come away with.

Instead, I ended up running into a bit of a gamechanger.  Truely, I had not correctly anticipated the arrival of the BT-7 art, although anyone who had been paying any sort of real attention to the calendar could probably have told me that it would be something I'd run into if the challenge went on this long.  To add further pressure, WG announces that they're changing up a fundamental mechanic - the size of the low tier map pool.  Since they don't appear to have any intention of telling me this time either when they're going to drop 9.10, I was faced with having to choose between diving face-forward into the new flavor-of-the-week derp tank at its highest population before something even more wild and game changing struck, or waiting for players to tire of the new tank long enough to get a more normal meta while risking 9.10 dropping and having to play in a more unusual (and stale) environment.  I opted for the former, and the impact of that decision, while I think primarily responsible for the challenge ending how it did, demonstrated for me that everything I'd always felt was terrible about these autocannon tanks was wholly true.

Some time in the next couple weeks, I will be going back and updating my thread of tier 2 tank ratings.  At that time, I will go more in depth about how my feelings towards rating the tanks has changed.  For now, it's enough to say that I rate tanks on a basis of "versatility", which is a quality that autocannon tanks are universally lacking in.  It makes sense on paper - low penetrations, low firing distance, horrible accuracy, and risky downtimes between clips.  It makes sense in battles - 3-4% draw rates on maps that would be no issue to close out given the proper tools, lack of a good answer to being rushed down by a tank with any reputable armor, and generally worse damage and trading across the board.  Most vividly now though, it makes sense after experiencing them during a meta shift.  The Pz. II just doesn't match up well against the BT-7 art, and it suffers greatly as a result.  The French Hotchkiss, on the other hand, is rather resilient against the BT-7 art when paired with a spall liner and benefits greatly from the shift.  A single comparison between two different tanks and how they match up against one other tank says little about how good or bad they are, but demonstrating how strong the impact of the addition of one tank to the game can be for this type of tank is enough to show how lacking in versatility is it.  Tanks I rate as top tier such as the Cruiser III, Pz. 38H, or T2 MT would look at the BT-7 art and simply deal with it they same way they deal with everything else already - spot and keep it at a distance and snipe it down before it gets a chance to become a major threat, and there is little about the BT-7 art that would have me believe this approach would not work as well as with any other tank.  Autocannon tanks on the other hand (and specifically the Pz. II and Pz. II D) will have to deal with those tanks from close up just to get the most out of their own tanks, which makes for much more favorable engagements for the BT-7 art by comparison.  A similar thing may take place when the T18 moves to tier 3 and the T3 takes its place in tier 2, though it is yet to be determined whether the extreme mobility of the T3 can be leveraged better against autocannon tanks than the T18's extreme armor (not likely).

In the end, the greatest takeaway for me from this challenge has been getting an accurate impression of where these five tanks stand in relation to each other.  Everything else was fairly well understood.  Autocannons are garbage.  Tanks that are restricted to these types of guns are garbage.  Their ability to perform is not consistently high enough to warrant playing for any extended amount of time.  There is little that this challenge has shown and I probably could have just skipped doing it altogether.  The bonus round of playing the T1E6 is not happening; I am already fairly certain where it would end up.

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Good luck with the Pz I and Pz II D.  They're both horrible.  And the amusing thing about the T7 is that about half the tanks in any Tier 2 match these days are T7's thanks to the recent give away.

 

There are good autocannon tanks though.  The german 30mm autocannon is pretty awesome on the Pz II G, Luchs, and the Leopard.  The Leopard is the best stat padding tank I've driven so far. 

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I have the PZ 2 D, T7 and Light VIC. The PZ 2 D is my least favourite out of those for sure. Will be interested to see how you get on. 

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The Reverse Stat Padding is real.... also good luck with your challenge I am curious how much you can do.

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I have a 66 % win rate in my Pz.Kpfw II, in 1779 battles, and I'm an average player, but I do know that it's the best auto-cannon tank in the game.

It's designed for auto-cannon play, fast aim time, decent accuracy, fast turret traverse, decent armor, mobility is average, which makes it risky, which makes it fun.

 

Pz.Kpfw II isn't a tank you play to carry, it's what you play when you want your risk to be rewarded properly.

If you can't get close, you're likely to get slaughtered without dealing much damage because you're terrible at long range engagements but when you play it right, the reward is glorious.

 

Do you realize that 25 % premium shell for a Pz.kpfw II cost 32 000 credits ?

Which puts the potential cost for 100 games at 3.2 million credits!

 

Valachio is also a fan :

 

 

As for the Pz.Kpfw I, I feel your pain for those 100 miserable games, that tank is absolute garbage, perhaps the worse tank in the game for it's tier.

Bad armor, same mobility as the Pz.Kpfw II, less accurate gun with horrible penetration, awful turret traverse, it's camouflage is probably insane, but what good is that if you can't snipe ?

The very definition of useless.

 

 

Good luck to you.

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Tj9UI6o.png

 

First 25 battles.  I have to say, this is turning out far better than I expected.  I think I'm even mildly enjoying myself.  I don't even get mad when I lose because I've already accepted how bad this tank is, as opposed to when supposedly good tanks present their drawbacks to me at unexpected times.

 

I did have one draw already, and that sucked.  Apart from that, I'm looking forward to finishing this, in a weird and twisted way.

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Autocannons do suck, but that's because seal clubbing requires you to stay at a distance and out snipe with superior knowledge of vision and camo mechanics. The few tanks that I have used autocannons in have all been sub par besides the T1.

You can still engage effectively from around 200m~ or so which is not bad. I think the Vic has the best pure autocannon of the tanks you mentioned, but the low ammo count will hurt.

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BRB, GOTTA GO GET CARRIED KICKING AND SCREAMING TO A SUCCESSFUL CHALLENGE OUTCOME

 

Any chance you can post some replays of your best battles ?

 

Like that 9565 WN8 one.

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Any chance you can post some replays of your best battles ?

 

Like that 9565 WN8 one.

 

I will provide a link to the set of 100 replays after I'm done playing the tank.  I'm keeping a highlights folder for battles where I think something particularly interesting happens.  The 1k XP battle is definitely in there.

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The forum update broke most of how I liked organizing the first post, so I'm likely going to break off each tank section into separate blog posts that I link to.  I don't like jamming all of those images into one post and not being able to collapse it somehow, so the next best thing is to link to somewhere else that has the info.  That will create the issue where people have to jump to different pages just to see the result content, but I don't see a better solution right now.

I'll take care of that when I'm done playing the VIC.

 

Things are fine after all, but I'm going to take some extra time to make sure all of the spoilers line up just right before updating with the new results.

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A month later now, and 9.9 is finally out so I can get this finished with.

The Reverse Stat Padding is real....

Holy shit, I had no idea that the T7 would be this unfun to play and detrimental to my win rate.  It's pretty bizarre how much a 50 damage and .6 frag drop is tanking my ability to swing games.

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Why not go buy a large beam, saw, compressor and nail gun and then crucify yourself?

 

Wouldn't that be more fun?

The 2nd Nail always gives me trouble.....

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A month later now, and 9.9 is finally out so I can get this finished with.

Holy shit, I had no idea that the T7 would be this unfun to play and detrimental to my win rate.  It's pretty bizarre how much a 50 damage and .6 frag drop is tanking my ability to swing games.

The T7 is super fragile.  You can be killed with a harsh look. 

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T7 Car is done.  Next week, I begin playing the Pz. II D.  I'm not thrilled at the prospect of having to go up against tier 3 tanks now.  The amount of time spent in the matchmaker trying to get into a game leads me to believe that I will be spending lots of time in tier 3 games with my last two tanks.

In terms of being on track for my goal of 66% win rate, I'm still four wins ahead of that, so barring a significant performance hit, I think I will hit my goal at the end of this.

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Many of these tanks have obscene ammo capacities.  Besides the VIC, are you EVER firing more than 1/4 of your total capacity?  I feel like you could have that requirement, and still fire almost exclusively gold if you wanted to.  

I'm actually pretty impressed that you are doing this with 75% crews.  

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