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Assassin7

Japanese CVs at low tiers. wait wat OMG TORPEDOES EVERYWHERE!!!

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last night I had a couple of games in ships, I haven't played very much at all with the US BBs and IJN carriers, (I played a couple games with my Fuso and Nagato before the wipe) but, I took out my Arkansas Beta last night, and noticed the Tier 5 Japanese carrier on the enemy team, the Zuiho. I didn't think much of it, continued on a rampage, soloing 2 enemy BBs while they were distracted by a friendly Myogi behind me that decided stopping was a good idea.

 

anyway, I kill one and the other has turned tail and was starting to run, I noticed a torp Squadron flying around me. I immediately went evasive to dodge whatever torps I had thrown at me, I managed to avoid all but one of the torps which just clipped my rear. used my repair kit to fix the flooding, and then Suddenly I get Dive bombed, and then Suddenly there is another spread of torps heading from the direction I had just turned from, and then theres ANOTHER spread of torps coming from the other direction. all right at me,  I got hit by about 6 torps in total, plus the dive bomb squadron, then the flooding took my last 1K health. and I was like "WTF" there was only one carrier on the enemy team, how can he have 3 torp squads and a DB squad at tier 5? except he can.

 

nothing against the CV player, he played perfectly, if I was on full health I would of died, compared to the 33K health I was on. but seriously? Having that many torp squads at such a low tier seems horrendously unbalanced. I did notice that he had no fighters for that loadout, and I can understand those sorts of squadron numbers at higher tiers, but at tier 5 where theres shit all for AA protection on a large number of ships? the CV players argument when I questioned him was that the IJN squads get less planes per squadron, sure, but the number of planes in the squadron aren't what kill enemy ships from my experience, getting ships into a position where they can't dodge the salvos is what kills them, avoiding 2 torp spreads from different directions is hard enough, but 3? I mean yeah right.

 

 

on the official forums there is a thread saying about how US CV fighters can obliterate japanese squadrons, and if there is an US CV on my team its perfectly fair or something along those lines. and thats all well and good, but when there isn't, there is nothing a SHIP can do. you have to rely on your own carrier knowing what to do, and to not be doing something somewhere else instead. and relying on random pubbies to do shit is obviously not going to go well.

 

I have watched CVs closely throughout Alpha and beta, and I was liking the more dynamic style of play than WoT arty has, plus it looked like it would take more skill to use and was easier to defend against. but after witnessing what just happened to me, Im losing faith. if a carrier picks your BB out, there is very little that you can do, not even like arty where you can hump a rock and avoid fire, especially at low tiers with crappy AA, theres even less you can do to avoid it than WoT arty besides hoping friendly cruisers follow you around all game...

 

opinions? am I completely wrong? am I just bad@ships?

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Basically, they screwed up the balance by going for such a large difference between fighter and bomber load-outs.  It doesn't work because you aren't guaranteed a healthy mix of carriers in a match.

US fighter setup reks the Japanese strike setup, so they give the Japanese strike setup retarded damage output.

 

The real answer would be to have more moderate setups and make Japanese fighters competitive.

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Patch 0.4 redid the full strike setups on the tier 9/10 US and IJN CV's to have at least 1 fighter squad by removing a DB squad from the US and a TB squad from the IJN CV's. I'm hoping they follow suit by doing the same to the rest of the CV's. Having more squads makes it easier to split up the AA/Fighter damage to your squads and it becomes stupidly OP as hell when played right.

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Yeah.  T4 and T5 are very broken particularly when there is only one carrier in game.  The CAs and BBs on the other side, sans a fully upgraded Omaha, can't do squat. With the number of Arks running around w/o AA that problem is magnified. 


Between the sheer number of bombers and the ability to drop as close as they do they way over influence matches.  In addition the health seems a little high.  I was in a Phoenix with two Omahas running together and a single flight of US bombers flew directly over us perpendicular to our formation.  We kill a total of 3 of their bombers.  That's silly.   Just a single Omaha should have been able to reduce it that number and two together, plus a Phoenix, should have wiped it clean.

 

Anyway that's why I'm running up the USN CA line first.  :)

 

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Low tier CVs are just clubbing machines because of the lack of any meaningful AA at tier 4-5. They're basically what happens when you combine a WTE-100 with arty-view and arty-shell arc in WoT.

If WG would get their head out of their asses and stop their "historical accuracy" bullshit (they left that long ago...) and add some goddamn HMGs/autocannon flak for low tiers, then you'd have a viable way of surviving attacks (turn your ship to the group with the most planes to run parallel to torps, focus AA to the squadron you're not turning to avoid, win)

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I tried running 2 Fighter squadrons and 1 DB in my Bogue, but when I wasn't matched up against an enemy CV I was basically useless besides scouting. Also the rewards for shooting down planes aren't really worth it when I could be nuking ships.

To be honest I'm thinking of going full asshole and platooning with an IJN strike carrier. That way I'm guaranteed to face off against at least 1 enemy CV I can lock down and allow my platoonmate essentially free reign to terrorize everyone.

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I honestly think having more than 2 torpedo squadrons is just bad, especially at low tier (I cant speak for high tier since I have never been above tier 7)  

 

the Zuiho shouldn't trade its fighters for an extra torp squad, it should trade them for an extra Dive bomber squad. 

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I honestly think having more than 2 torpedo squadrons is just bad, especially at low tier (I cant speak for high tier since I have never been above tier 7)  

 

the Zuiho shouldn't trade its fighters for an extra torp squad, it should trade them for an extra Dive bomber squad. 

Lol that's funny, dive bombers are already pretty useless as is and giving a CV an extra DB squadron is like adding 5 alpha dmg to a gun. Makes almost no difference. No one would go for a 0/2/3 loadut when a 1/2/2 would work significantly better for most people. If anything, drop all dive bombers and replace them with fighters (ye ol' USN CV loadout)

3/2/0.

Edited by Flametz
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I honestly think having more than 2 torpedo squadrons is just bad, especially at low tier (I cant speak for high tier since I have never been above tier 7)  

 

the Zuiho shouldn't trade its fighters for an extra torp squad, it should trade them for an extra Dive bomber squad. 

Lol that's funny, dive bombers are already pretty useless as is and giving a CV an extra DB squadron is like adding 5 alpha dmg to a gun. Makes almost no difference. No one would go for a 0/2/3 loadut when a 1/2/2 would work significantly better for most people.

its actually 0/3/1

 

no fighters, 1 DB squad, 3 torpedo squads. I was meaning instead of it being 1/2/1, its 0/2/2. 

 

I didn't get to play carriers much myself, I played the Langley and the Independence (before it was switched) but I was mostly a BB Captain, and so far BBs feel far, far less powerful since the wipe happened. 

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Lol that's funny, dive bombers are already pretty useless as is and giving a CV an extra DB squadron is like adding 5 alpha dmg to a gun. Makes almost no difference. No one would go for a 0/2/3 loadut when a 1/2/2 would work significantly better for most people.

its actually 0/3/1

 

no fighters, 1 DB squad, 3 torpedo squads. I was meaning instead of it being 1/2/1, its 0/2/2. 

 

I didn't get to play carriers much myself, I played the Langley and the Independence (before it was switched) but I was mostly a BB Captain, and so far BBs feel far, far less powerful since the wipe happened. 

I was referring to your proposed loadout solution, also no one, i mean NO ONE would take the 0/2/2 loadout when a 1/2/2 loadout exists. (apparently that's for Ryuujou, not Zuihou)

Still, TBs > Fighters > DBs. I still wouldn't take the "upgrade" any day.

Edited by Flametz
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0/2/3 is just worse than 1/2/2.  DBs suck.

The options should be 1/2/2 and 2/1/2, with buffed fighters to approach the USN standards.

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 I was referring to your proposed loadout solution, also no one, i mean NO ONE would take the 0/2/2 loadout when a 1/2/2 loadout exists. (apparently that's for Ryuujou, not Zuihou)

Still, TBs > Fighters > DBs. I still wouldn't take the "upgrade" any day.

0/2/3 is just worse than 1/2/2.  DBs suck.

The options should be 1/2/2 and 2/1/2, with buffed fighters to approach the USN standards.

Zuiho only has 4 squadrons

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Zuiho only has 4 squadrons

The stock 1/2/1 would still be better than the "upgrade" 0/2/2.

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Zuiho only has 4 squadrons

My bad, was thinking about RJ because she was the one around there I played with a lot.  Point still stands, 0/2/2 is just worse that 1/2/1.  1/2/1 or 2/1/1, with fighters buffed near US standard, is what the choice should be.

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Being told to "L2dodge", when you're hit with a 6 torp spread at <1km while evading 3 Torp bombers.... GG scrub... GG...

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Being told to "L2dodge", when you're hit with a 6 torp spread at <1km while evading 3 Torp bombers.... GG scrub... GG...

American CVs do that to yah, and it gets especially deadly at tier 8 when their dmg gets bumped up to 10k per hit.

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Does anyone know if the jap tb's have the same total torpedo spread width as the American tb's?

The total width is the same, yes, so there's much wider spacing between the torpedoes.  Makes them far easier to comb.

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The intention, once all is said and done, is for the IJN torpedo spread to be more of an 'arrow' shape, with the torpedoes intersecting at a specific point - such that, if you aim well, you'll nail them with all four.  Miss, and you miss with all four.

 

Word from a dev in one of the threads, don't have a link handy nor remember which one specifically though.

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The intention, once all is said and done, is for the IJN torpedo spread to be more of an 'arrow' shape, with the torpedoes intersecting at a specific point - such that, if you aim well, you'll nail them with all four.  Miss, and you miss with all four.

 

Word from a dev in one of the threads, don't have a link handy nor remember which one specifically though.

Something already similar occurs... but only on autodrop and only if the planes are coming in at a really retardly steep angle (like >120 degree turn before attack run starts)

Done it before in CBT with a Lexington's TBs.

60k dmg in 1 squadron gggggggggggggggg

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The total width is the same, yes, so there's much wider spacing between the torpedoes.  Makes them far easier to comb.

I'd say the spread is far wider, on top of having less torps.

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I managed to breach enemy lines once and find the two enemy zuiho's in my wakatake (tier 3 IJN DD). I actually lost that engagement-holy fk the torp wave nets are real. Dodging and weaving the whole time, finally getting hit by one after 2 frantic minutes, during which my slow Jap guns were never on target and the torps I hit weren't enough to kill.

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