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RichardNixon

WN9 candidate prototype

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He is either simply busy, or got a nervous breakdown when he realized that Grille 15s and Skorpion Gs completely messed up WN9's assumptions.

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Assisted damage has been available in the API for some time now - but it is shown as a total - but is tracked only for battles after the patch where it was introduced...

So whenever you have a player with, say, an AMX 13 90, you can never tell wether his low assissted average is because he played a lot before the damage was tracked or because he is bad...

tl;dr No

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The only way that would work is if wn9 included assisted and only used stats starting from x point when assisted started being tracked. Basically a clean slate for everyone and if you want to see overall statistics from before that point you would still need to use wn8, but I think a lot of people wouldn't like having a hard reset on stats like that.

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7 minutes ago, SuperTheBoss said:

The only way that would work is if wn9 included assisted and only used stats starting from x point when assisted started being tracked. Basically a clean slate for everyone and if you want to see overall statistics from before that point you would still need to use wn8, but I think a lot of people wouldn't like having a hard reset on stats like that.

Why isn't there a meter like that already if you have been able to get assisted damage for ages now? This would make so much sense.

People need to stop making retarded meters based on old information and use new information for much more accurate metric.

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I don't know how many times this needs explaining but assisted damage in the API is only for your overall account since that was introduced. It's completely useless for anything because there is no per-tank assisted. We know it would be great to have. Tell WG to stop being retarded about it.

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With so many people leaving game, and many now not using xvm what is the point of win8/9? Seems a lot of work for nothing. Why not just use the figures from garage? It is nothing more than a poor video game after all.

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On 9/24/2016 at 10:02 AM, Kitten said:

I don't know how many times this needs explaining but assisted damage in the API is only for your overall account since that was introduced. It's completely useless for anything because there is no per-tank assisted. We know it would be great to have. Tell WG to stop being retarded about it.

Go release wn9 now u faggot 

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On ‎23‎.‎09‎.‎2016 at 7:34 PM, Stige said:

Why isn't there a meter like that already if you have been able to get assisted damage for ages now?

Also recents would double the server load for XVM that is already at the brink.

And because it is common consensus that a rating would only make sense if XVM can handle it, noone bothered.

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The problem I see with WN9 is that it comes too late. WN9 is no real advantage over WN8 for like 98% of the playerbase. Only the top 2% will see noteable differences in their epeen length. But epeen length comparing has all but stopped here on wotlabs in the last few months. Many of the best are going casual, noone really bothers over some padders any more.

Ofc WN9 is a HUGE advantage if you view it from a technical side. It's much easier to calculate and implement and more robust when it comes to new tanks and nerfs/buffs.

BUT, as everyone int he industry knows, workable solutions that are already implemented and thus no work will very often stay in place in favor of better solutions that take some implementation work.

If you want to implement WN9 you need to convince the XVM guys and Never needs to put work in it to implement it here. Not seeing that happen any time soon.

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22 minutes ago, Jaegaer said:

The problem I see with WN9 is that it comes too late. WN9 is no real advantage over WN8 for like 98% of the playerbase. Only the top 2% will see noteable differences in their epeen length. But epeen length comparing has all but stopped here on wotlabs in the last few months. Many of the best are going casual, noone really bothers over some padders any more.

Ofc WN9 is a HUGE advantage if you view it from a technical side. It's much easier to calculate and implement and more robust when it comes to new tanks and nerfs/buffs.

BUT, as everyone int he industry knows, workable solutions that are already implemented and thus no work will very often stay in place in favor of better solutions that take some implementation work.

If you want to implement WN9 you need to convince the XVM guys and Never needs to put work in it to implement it here. Not seeing that happen any time soon.

Exactly this. WN9 is just the same shit in a different bucket.. as the saying goes. When it had the platoon padding quotient or whatever they called it. It was interesting to me as it actually had a point of difference from wn8. They took it out and now WN9 is just the Armored Warfare of tank stats.

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15 minutes ago, Acumen said:

Exactly this. WN9 is just the same shit in a different bucket.. as the saying goes. When it had the platoon padding quotient or whatever they called it. It was interesting to me as it actually had a point of difference from wn8. They took it out and now WN9 is just the Armored Warfare of tank stats.

I suspect part of their challenge was they realised their toon estimation was never going to be very accurate, and hence it wouldn't prove a significant addition to a metric. Without that element wn9 didn't offer a great deal more than what we have, so hence or otherwise, the project appears to be on ice.

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It wasn't only the tooning. The anti padding measures were very strict at the start which put many players down by several notches by greatly limiting the amount of games counted in some tanks.

Feathers were ruffled and these effects were lessened by a great deal to a point where most people (apart from the most blatant padders AMX ELC style)  arrived at basically the same relative WN9 than their overall WN8.

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1 hour ago, Ezz said:

I suspect part of their challenge was they realised their toon estimation was never going to be very accurate, and hence it wouldn't prove a significant addition to a metric. Without that element wn9 didn't offer a great deal more than what we have, so hence or otherwise, the project appears to be on ice.

I didn't realise there were  anti padding measures. It is even a bigger shame they didn't keep that. 

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20 hours ago, Acumen said:

they didn't keep that. 

To a degree they did. Peeps who mostly or even only played AMX ELC or T67 will have much lower ratings. Peeps that padded in E50 though get away relatively unscathed. Though you can totally debate wether playing mostly E50 can be considered padding at all.

Again WN9 is totally superior to WN8, both in the results (people no longer ALWAYS have better recents than overalls) and in the technical aspects (much easier to compute) - but implementing it is probably too much an effort in a time when WG ups their client more and more annd more, negating the pressing use to fuss over mods. That and the change in the community of blunicums that are now MUCH less obsessed about getting purpl numbrs makes it seem unecessary to bother with a new WN at all.

The one thing that could force an implementation is if WG would ever implement some sweeping changes to tanks/balance. This would screw the expected per tank system that WN8 uses so much that WN8 would quickly become unusable while WN9 would probably still be solid.

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I don't know the full extent of the work that was needed to get WN9 to where it is now, but I assume it is very substantial.

The guys who did this did it on their own free time too; which at least to some degree suggests they cared about what they were doing.

I don't know why work has stopped. Might be technical issues, might be concept issues, might not have anything to do with WN9. Regardless, I hope the people involved @RichardNixon are okay.

About WN9, it is a direct (major) upgrade to WN8 in every way that I can think of. Considering the amount of time already used for its creation, it would be a real shame not to implement it.

Heck, even if you look at this project with a "damage control" perspective, it is clearly worth going through with it.

- It gives closure to the people who worked on it;

- It gives the community a far better (IMO) metric to use for tracking their own improvement, or evaluating other players;

- According to some, it lowers the calculation load for services such as WoTLabs that would use it;

- It should be more resilient to future balance shifts (i.e. require less maintenance).

Anyhow, I think WN9 should be implemented ASAP, and if some people want to work on improving it some more in the future, then fine; but even without that, it would be a net improvement over the current metrics!

 

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