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RichardNixon

WN9 candidate prototype

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17 minutes ago, NThirtyTwo said:

I don't know why work has stopped.

Because it's finished. WN9 is ready. No more WN9 dev work to be done.

What is left now is WN9 marketing work - totally different and maybe the powers that dev'ed WN9 are not that keen on marketing WN9.

Iirc all that needs to be done to implement WN9 is for some XVM guy to pull the codes from the jajaorg site and for Never to implement it into wotlabs. It's the final push, the final "this needs to be done NOW" - and this is missing. Happens quite often in projects - the work that one person or a small group can do on their own schedule is done. Now the results need to be implemneted by others but these don't care and the devs don't see it as their tasks to cajole everyone into doing it.

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Really the only stat win9 should count is position on team. This will give you an idea of how good a players no matter how bad the players team is. It will also offset unicum platoons a little because someone has to come 3rd and 2nd.

Of course I am not sure if the api releases stats for position on team per game and it wouldn't alleviate the per tank problem.

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4 hours ago, Acumen said:

Really the only stat win9 should count is position on team. This will give you an idea of how good a players no matter how bad the players team is. It will also offset unicum platoons a little because someone has to come 3rd and 2nd.

Of course I am not sure if the api releases stats for position on team per game and it wouldn't alleviate the per tank problem.

There is no such thing as win9 you moron.

WN9 <- WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU SEE THE "i" THERE
:nmad:

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6 hours ago, Acumen said:

Really the only stat win9 should count is position on team

So if I am top spot every game in my prem spam Pz IIJ I should be rated higher than, say, X3n4 because he sometimes is "only" among the top three rather than top spot each and every time?

Makes sense /s

Really: top spot is extremely paddable by low tiers and horribly bad regarding tank selection. It makes no sense whatsoever to a degree that even WN6 was a better metric.

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On 10/24/2016 at 4:12 PM, Stige said:

There is no such thing as win9 you moron.

WN9 <- WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU SEE THE "i" THERE
:nmad:

OMG so I miss typed you don't have to be retarded about it.

On 10/24/2016 at 6:19 PM, Jaegaer said:

So if I am top spot every game in my prem spam Pz IIJ I should be rated higher than, say, X3n4 because he sometimes is "only" among the top three rather than top spot each and every time?

Makes sense /s

Really: top spot is extremely paddable by low tiers and horribly bad regarding tank selection. It makes no sense whatsoever to a degree that even WN6 was a better metric.

Of course it will be tier based. All I am saying position in team is the one thing that can counter retarded teams.

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22 minutes ago, Acumen said:

Of course it will be tier based. All I am saying position in team is the one thing that can counter retarded teams.

Why would you counter retarded teams? Statistically, over like 1000 games, we all get the same teams. So accounting for teams in a rating does exactly NOTHING.

But NOT accounting for tiers/tanks opens the rating to heavily padding by tank selection. So if WN9 would "only count position" (which is impossible btw bc not in API) it would "solve" a problem that doesn't exist and ignore all the problems that actually make creating good ratings so challenging.

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3 minutes ago, Jaegaer said:

Why would you counter retarded teams? Statistically, over like 1000 games, we all get the same teams. So accounting for teams in a rating does exactly NOTHING.

But NOT accounting for tiers/tanks opens the rating to heavily padding by tank selection. So if WN9 would "only count position" (which is impossible btw bc not in API) it would "solve" a problem that doesn't exist and ignore all the problems that actually make creating good ratings so challenging.

I do get that but are you actually saying that wn8 and then possibly wn9 are not paddable by tank selection?

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WN8 is quite paddable by tank selection troughout tiers and classes (LTs) though less than WN7 was so it could be considered a step ahead. In this it is/was better than any other rating before it.

WN9 originally was MUCH less paddable by tank selection but it's current iteration is prone to high tier "padding" (if you want to call it like that). Still WN9 is by far the LEAST paddable rating so far as it mostly removes light tank and low tier padding.

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Would it be possible to have an updated table compiled of the most recent version of wn9, wn8 and percentiles of players for both overall and recent so I can better apply it to recruitment purposes.

also if it is easier a scatter graph that shows wn8 against wn9 for thousands of players would also work

even a formula for transforming wn9 into wn8 like numbers would work for me too

eg something like wn9 to the 1.5, times 2 (i know this will be wildly inaccurate but you get the picture)

my brain still works in wn8 despite my best efforts so I'm trying my best to find a workaround. in principle it shouldn't be less accurate than wn9 i just want to change the scale for personal use

@RichardNixon

Once again thanks and let me know if I can help out at all with wn9's implementation and "marketing" 

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I'd hate to see all the work go to waste. If WN9 is ready (as it looks like it) it should be put to use. You pretty much have to get XVM to implement it, the rest will surely follow soon after.

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We need someone to push/promote WN9 to the XVM guys. XVM is what makes or breaks WNx - if they implement it, it flies, if not it dies - period.

It's only other chance is that WN8 gets invalidate should WG ever implement even half of the sweeping changes they tested on Sandbox (small chance, I know). This would change tanks so much that history based WN8 would loose any meaning fast...

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On 11/7/2016 at 7:03 PM, Jaegaer said:

We need someone to push/promote WN9 to the XVM guys. XVM is what makes or breaks WNx - if they implement it, it flies, if not it dies - period.

It's only other chance is that WN8 gets invalidate should WG ever implement even half of the sweeping changes they tested on Sandbox (small chance, I know). This would change tanks so much that history based WN8 would loose any meaning fast...

You mean the buff all premium tanks changes that are coming?

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13 hours ago, Acumen said:

You mean the buff all premium tanks changes that are coming?

It wont stop there. E100 and Maus slready received some buffs and more will follow. New MM will also shuffle things together. All this might create a game that cant really be compared to what it was 3 years ago. 

But WN8 has no way in dividing old games from new ones and thus the changes will screw the expected values.

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4 hours ago, Jaegaer said:

It wont stop there. E100 and Maus slready received some buffs and more will follow. New MM will also shuffle things together. All this might create a game that cant really be compared to what it was 3 years ago. 

But WN8 has no way in dividing old games from new ones and thus the changes will screw the expected values.

What new MM? There is no new MM?

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5 hours ago, Stige said:

What new MM? There is no new MM?

WG is working on a new MM . For this to work LTs up to tier X are needed and these are currently in the making.

Actually new MM and rebalance are the top two things (besides arty) for WG now.

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1 hour ago, Jaegaer said:

WG is working on a new MM . For this to work LTs up to tier X are needed and these are currently in the making.

Actually new MM and rebalance are the top two things (besides arty) for WG now.

Neither of them are on the way in any foreseeable future. If they have meantioned them once, it doesn't mean they will ever come.

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11 hours ago, Stige said:

in any foreseeable future

As WG is chronically tight lipped about things (especially sonce Rubikon), the term "foreseeable future" doesn't mean anything. The specifics for the patch after the next for examply are totally unknown, so the tier X LTs could be added to Super Test with the next patch and released the patch afterwards...

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1 hour ago, Jaegaer said:

As WG is chronically tight lipped about things (especially sonce Rubikon), the term "foreseeable future" doesn't mean anything. The specifics for the patch after the next for examply are totally unknown, so the tier X LTs could be added to Super Test with the next patch and released the patch afterwards...

Won't happen, not for another year from now atleast.

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On ‎14‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:02 PM, Stige said:

Won't happen, not for another year from now atleast.

Tier X Lts in Supertest... it's just over one month later.

Now it's anyones guess wether WG will have new tank IDs for them or keeps the IDs. If the latter is the case then RIP WN8...

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On 2016. 10. 13. at 3:15 PM, Jaegaer said:

Because it's finished. WN9 is ready. No more WN9 dev work to be done.

What is left now is WN9 marketing work - totally different and maybe the powers that dev'ed WN9 are not that keen on marketing WN9.

Iirc all that needs to be done to implement WN9 is for some XVM guy to pull the codes from the jajaorg site and for Never to implement it into wotlabs. It's the final push, the final "this needs to be done NOW" - and this is missing. Happens quite often in projects - the work that one person or a small group can do on their own schedule is done. Now the results need to be implemneted by others but these don't care and the devs don't see it as their tasks to cajole everyone into doing it.

First WoTLabs could and should implement it to show trust. The biggest breakthrough would indeed be if XVM would start using it, but if WoTLabs is not using it, why would anyone else?

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I think the situation was also complicated by the emergence of WN8KTTC, which was dismissed by several prominent WoTLabs mathematics contributors as pure bullshit but nevertheless found its way into modpacks and also has its own stats site. So there is this contender too, and it's hard to explain ordinary people why WN8KTTC is problematic or why WN9 is better and how it is more accurate

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On 12/22/2016 at 0:15 PM, dirtyred said:

First WoTLabs could and should implement it to show trust. The biggest breakthrough would indeed be if XVM would start using it, but if WoTLabs is not using it, why would anyone else?

@Never Will Wotlabs be adding WN9 soon?  I don't mean Wargmaing Soon™, but actual soon.

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January first 2017. Should we call time of death on this one ? 

 

Ps: happy new year. 

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