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Victrix

Is 4k the new 3k?

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Seems like through the times, people have gotten better, and are aiming for 4k wn8 and 70% WR like they used to aim for 3k/65% when I started playing.

Is this because the majority of the non retarded playerbase has been improving, and finding new ways of getting better?

Is it because WN8 is irrelevant and broken/easy to pad?

Or is it simply because so many players are able to reach 3k much easier making it much less of an achievement, therefore making people try harder...

 

Im pretty interested about this entire topic, so lets have some discussions. What are your thoughts?

 

 

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People got better AND WN8 is broken and easy to pad. It's been stated many times over the years that WN8 is primarily designed for people in the sub-2000 range (the average player) and once you go beyond unicum it starts to break down. 3k was already considered a point where WN8 was mostly useless so if you're at 5k, you've just broken it even harder. You have essentially broken the barrier of skill that can be measured (ability to left click well, decent winning plays) and gone far into the skill areas that can't (high map awareness, strong ability to flex, great sense of timing), The solution to that in WN8 is crazy high scaling with extra damage and kills, simply because it cannot detect the areas you really improved in: After all, it's not like a green or blue can't left click you to death just as easily if you're in a bad position, it's simply that you just don't take many bad positions anymore.

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I think he means more recently as opposed to wn8 in general. 

And yes, people are getting better at this game. More time practicing, and (probably the main cause) more competitiveness between peers to flaunt numbers. 

Kinda nice that wn9 will scale back some of the high end numbers and set ~3k as the end-all top level. 

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slow_clap_citizen_kane.gif

Crab nailed it. Some of us have been talking about this for a while, as I did in my modest proposal a while back. And we caught quite some flak for it, mostly from a certain Pokemon-themed clan.

WN8 is calibrated for mid-range. It loses statistical validity the higher you go. While you can be reasonably certain that a 2K WN8 player is better than a 1K WN8, and still somewhat certain that a 3K WN8 player is better than a 2K WN8 player, it is not at all certain that a 4K WN8 is THAT much better than a 3K, or a 4.5K vs a 3.5K-- at that level, the noise from artifacts such as tank selection and individual playstyle exaggerate numbers to the point of uselessness. Just looking at my own potato stats (or potats™ for short), tank selection can alter my short-term WN8 by up to 600 points. At the higher end, I'm sure 1 or 1.5K swings are not out of question.

It's not that the 3K+ WN8 players aren't incredibly skilled-- they undoubtedly are. Most if not all of them are top of the charts on PR and other metrics. It's just that it is harder to discriminate between players at that level by just looking at the little 4-piece stat block.

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Irony is when you make a metric, tell everyone that its not valid for cherry picked tanks (only for overall accounts played under a "normal" pattern)  or rerolls and then 2 years later when everyone is cherry picking tanks and re-rolling, they tell you its broken. Broken is when something isn't working as it was designed. And there is no getting around the limits of WG's marginally useful over-all data.  You're (generalized and plural) just illiterate, willfully ignorant cunts. 

That said, 3k is still 3k in tanks that don't go 50kph, have good pen or alpha, easy stock grinds or decent armor. Those attributes make the general population decent in them, or keep higher skilled players from hanging out on the right tail of a gamma distribution. 

And I don't deny that players are learning to damage better, win the maps more, or adapting. WG makes meta shifts and it takes time for those adaptions to be innovated and disseminated. Streams make that faster and widespread compared to 2 years ago. Websites like this one make collections of resources and direct answers easier to find. I know that because of WoTLabs I myself have been able to improve on my gameplay (beyond the illusion of tank restriction). 

It wears thin to hear "WN8 is broken" just like it wears thin to hear people complain about RNG. By playing this game, or looking at WN8, you accept the limits, implicitly or explicitly. 

Quoted for truth and also because nobody will listen anyway. Don Quixote all over again.

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ayyy

And yes I do think that as time goes on the level of "good" will keep getting higher, as well as more and more padding tanks emerging.

WN9 though sounds interesting with its scaled down scale.

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Rly?

On long term most teams are like this...

-snip-

Ur text choice is bad.

Also, that is literally 23 seconds into a match. Most pubs don't actually commit to a flank until 30s in, so I literally have no idea what that is trying to say. (Plus that actually looks half decent, provided a heavy or 2 go middle with the 54LT)

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Ur text choice is bad.

Also, that is literally 23 seconds into a match. Most pubs don't actually commit to a flank until 30s in, so I literally have no idea what that is trying to say. (Plus that actually looks half decent, provided a heavy or 2 go middle with the 54LT)

i can alrdy tell you nobody will go forest based on that screen (unless some people turn back (haha, kidding, ofc they wont))

The enemy does most likely hard camp forest, and will push their sooner or later, meaning GG, u lost (unless the Panther II hes team also goes turtle mode, and all hug hill / rail / mid, while the enemy sends nobody to hill)

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Ur text choice is bad.

Also, that is literally 23 seconds into a match. Most pubs don't actually commit to a flank until 30s in, so I literally have no idea what that is trying to say. (Plus that actually looks half decent, provided a heavy or 2 go middle with the 54LT)

Just look at WN8 list. That's what i'm trying to say.

 

BTW i love Courier :)

Y'all can thank me later--SR

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Crab nailed it. Some of us have been talking about this for a while, as I did in my modest proposal a while back. And we caught quite some flak for it, mostly from a certain Pokemon-themed clan.

WN8 is calibrated for mid-range. It loses statistical validity the higher you go. While you can be reasonably certain that a 2K WN8 player is better than a 1K WN8, and still somewhat certain that a 3K WN8 player is better than a 2K WN8 player, it is not at all certain that a 4K WN8 is THAT much better than a 3K, or a 4.5K vs a 3.5K-- at that level, the noise from artifacts such as tank selection and individual playstyle exaggerate numbers to the point of uselessness. Just looking at my own potato stats (or potats™ for short), tank selection can alter my short-term WN8 by up to 600 points. At the higher end, I'm sure 1 or 1.5K swings are not out of question.

It's not that the 3K+ WN8 players aren't incredibly skilled-- they undoubtedly are. Most if not all of them are top of the charts on PR and other metrics. It's just that it is harder to discriminate between players at that level by just looking at the little 4-piece stat block.

 

Tank selection is monumental for WN8 at higher levels. I love looking through my history and seeing the dips from when I've punched through TDs versus the rise when I start a new medium.

That's why I'm still impressed by the non-padded people who play everything instead of being "specialists" in mediums/lights.

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