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Heavy Tank No. VI

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So is this tank shitgift worthy or is it actually good?

On paper, compared to the KV-85 (using 100mm), T-150, and gold-spamming 105 equipped ARL 44, it's overall a better tank.  Highest hp pool coupled to the best overall armor package.  Best overall gun stats with second highest dpm.  No idea about mobility (you have to test to really know this).  Highest view range, by far.  The one weakness it has is pen (132/171).

I find it hard to believe that players have suddenly gone cheap and stopped using gold rounds for this thing to be overshadowed by the O-I (which, on paper, only has the Japanese Tiger beat in some areas).  I was really expecting folks to jump all over this because a Tiger one tier lower, even with the short 88, should be a beast.

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On paper, compared to the KV-85 (using 100mm), T-150, and gold-spamming 105 equipped ARL 44, it's overall a better tank.  Highest hp pool coupled to the best overall armor package.  Best overall gun stats with second highest dpm.  No idea about mobility (you have to test to really know this).  Highest view range, by far.  The one weakness it has is pen (132/171).

I find it hard to believe that players have suddenly gone cheap and stopped using gold rounds for this thing to be overshadowed by the O-I (which, on paper, only has the Japanese Tiger beat in some areas).  I was really expecting folks to jump all over this because a Tiger one tier lower, even with the short 88, should be a beast.

It's the gun-handling that is the big breaker, at least for me.

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The gun bloom is .20 turret, .18 track. The turret bloom in particular is pretty horrific, for comparison that turret bloom is the same as the KV-85 gets with the 122mm, and almost double what the actual Tiger gets with its 88. I wouldn't mind that kind of bloom if I had a 300+ damage gun, but with the short 88? I think I'll pass.

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Turret bloom kills it imo from trying it on test. Shots go everywhere unless you full aim, which takes forever. Low pen AND bad gun handling is a terrible combination. They might eventually buff it, it reeks of arbitrary nerf meant to keep it from being accidentally too good on release which could be easily changed later.

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Huh?  The gun stats are overall the best out of the good tier 6 heavies.

It's the soft-stats you don't see in garage, as these two here point out:

The gun bloom is .20 turret, .18 track. The turret bloom in particular is pretty horrific, for comparison that turret bloom is the same as the KV-85 gets with the 122mm, and almost double what the actual Tiger gets with its 88. I wouldn't mind that kind of bloom if I had a 300+ damage gun, but with the short 88? I think I'll pass.

And

Turret bloom kills it imo from trying it on test. Shots go everywhere unless you full aim, which takes forever. Low pen AND bad gun handling is a terrible combination. They might eventually buff it, it reeks of arbitrary nerf meant to keep it from being accidentally too good on release which could be easily changed later.

For a gun of that caliber and penetrating power, you're relying on accurate shooting, but if you have to fully aim each and every shot to make sure you're not missing the lower plate of that T150 just 100m in front of you and this action taking more than 1 or two seconds after you came to a halt (not to even think about shooting on the move), you have a problem. The Tiger J's armor is good for the tier, but the tanks you are fighting are tanks designed to fight Tigers and it shows and the last thing you want, is sit in front of their guns and aim in for 3+ seconds. Also, long range shooting, which you should focus on really, tends to be derpy as fuck. 0.38 accuracy is fine, if you have a 90+mm gun that can penetrate 150mm of solid steel without much thought. If you have trouble penetrating an angled Easy 8 frontally on more than 50% of it's frontal area and try to snipe, you'll be in for quite some frustration.

Edited by Madner Kami

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It's the soft-stats you don't see in garage

I was accounting for them.  Tier 6 heavies don't really have exceptional gun stats.  The Tiger, despite the flaws, has probably the overall best gun stats across the board.  That coupled with all the other factors where it's superior to the other tier 6 heavies should make it one of the best, if not best, in that class at that tier.

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is it atleast a fun pub tank?

platoon up 3 of them and DPM everything down in tier 6, gang up on tier 7 tanks and be scavenging bastards in tier 8.

Can be fun in platoons, but solo... Not so much.

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I was accounting for them.  Tier 6 heavies don't really have exceptional gun stats.  The Tiger, despite the flaws, has probably the overall best gun stats across the board.

How? The M6's 90 is unquestionably better. The KV-85's 100mm is better. The VK3601's 88mm is slightly better. The O-I's 152mm and the O-I and ARL 44's 105mm are realistically better. The JP Tiger's gun doesn't even beat out the mediums; things like the 3001P, T-34-85, and Rudy all have better guns.

The JP Tiger doesn't have an exceptionally good gun, it's pretty middle of the road. The only way I could imagine someone thinking it has the "Best overall gun stats" is if they had a HUGE boner for things like the accuracy rating, which is one of the least important stats on a weapon.

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How? The M6's 90 is unquestionably better. The KV-85's 100mm is better. The VK3601's 88mm is slightly better. The O-I's 152mm and the O-I and ARL 44's 105mm are realistically better. The JP Tiger's gun doesn't even beat out the mediums; things like the 3001P, T-34-85, and Rudy all have better guns.

The JP Tiger doesn't have an exceptionally good gun, it's pretty middle of the road. The only way I could imagine someone thinking it has the "Best overall gun stats" is if they had a HUGE boner for things like the accuracy rating, which is one of the least important stats on a weapon.

VK P has vastly worse bloom stats though (and is also faster, making it even worse) (if tanks.gg is correct)

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How? The M6's 90 is unquestionably better. The KV-85's 100mm is better. The VK3601's 88mm is slightly better. The O-I's 152mm and the O-I and ARL 44's 105mm are realistically better. The JP Tiger's gun doesn't even beat out the mediums; things like the 3001P, T-34-85, and Rudy all have better guns.

The JP Tiger doesn't have an exceptionally good gun, it's pretty middle of the road. The only way I could imagine someone thinking it has the "Best overall gun stats" is if they had a HUGE boner for things like the accuracy rating, which is one of the least important stats on a weapon.

When did bloom from turret rotation become the most meaningful stat?  I cropped these together from tanks.gg:

Japanese Tiger > KV-85 w/ 100mm > O-I (derp) > O-I (105) > ARL (105 w/ gold round)

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Japanese Tiger > 3601 > 3001P > 34-85 > Rudy

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When you compare it to all the tanks you mention the Japanese Tiger is up there, if not the best, in aim time, accuracy, movement dispersion, and rotation dispersion.  DPM is also just below the best tanks. 

The weak points are the turret bloom, alpha (when compared against heavies), and pen.  I haven't heard of mid-tier Germans being unplayable so the latter two don't really seem an issue.  Overall I don't think it's a stretch when you compare the pros vs cons to call it one of the better guns in a tier 6 heavy.

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Bloom on turret rotation is the most important gun handling stat, yes. Its influence on how good a gun actually handles dwarfs that of track traverse bloom, so having terrible turret bloom is a gamebreaker. If you look up every tank with "bad" gun handling, you'll see that telltale gigantic turret bloom.

What you can get from that chart is that the Tiger's gun is a dead average, nothing-special short 88 with mediocre to poor bloom. I don't think it's fair at all to say that gun is good, especially when we take into account the chassis behind it. If I could stuff a 107mm onto the Tiger, I would.

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From my observation turret rotation feels to have about twice the impact of fire on the move for overall handling. As in, 0.02 in turret is like ~0.04 on movement. And unlike fire on the move, turret rotation can never be negated by staying stationary, so it hurts you in all situations. 0.20 on turret is damn near crippling.

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Kinda a shame though, because the tank looks nice, and the playstyle could be ok, i have some hope that WG will simply buff that turret bloom a bit, once the mass starts buying and playing it (and they will prob do bad with it), its the easiets thing to buff afterall...

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I bought this one during the recent sale... despite a few of my friends did the same and informed me it is scrap. I am not one to judge tanks on what I hear without testing things myself, but so far I do not get off where some have said its armor is OP.

 

I am finding EVERYTHING cuts through the armor like butter. 100 games into it, and nothing has changed. And YES PEOPLE, I know what a DIAMOND formation is, lol.

 

I do not think this is just bad luck anymore... and I'm only looking at my tier 6 games here, don't even get me started on anything higher you get put into. I also find it laughable when people say in higher tier games, just keep up with the mediums and scouts to support their roles.  Umm... WHAT!??

 

And as for the armor, something seems still very bugged with the mantlet. I do know the 0-mm bugs were SUPPOSED to have been fixed after release when purchasers made it public. However, the mantlet still is acting very weird to me. I'm getting constant tier 6 and lower HE spamming whores doing full pen rolls right through it constantly. What is going on here even still? Wasn't this snafu fixed?

 

I honestly think most people who give this tank good reviews don't even have a single game played in the thing. 

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Am I glad I saw this topic before purchasing! I can't believe they put in a short 88 at tier6 with worse turret bloom than the 3001P, god damn.

At least when you put the DCA 45 on the ARL or the 122 on the KV-85 it's your own choice and you get something out of that Faustian bargain that's better than 132mm pen/220 alpha. I only barely tolerate it on the T-150 either, and the 107mm Zis-6 is a great tier6 gun.

See, I have this crazy need to try and lead moving targets because it's better than hoping pubbies will kill fast targets, so I'm allergic to turret bloom. 0.16 is the most I'll put up with without whining about it, and usually only because it's in tiers where most tanks aren't doing much better than that anyway. I'm spoiled by the M6's 0.12 turret.

I sure like the short 88 but it already barely justifies 0.16 turret bloom on the 3601H, 3001P and Skoda T40.

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25 minutes ago, Psykmoe said:

Am I glad I saw this topic before purchasing! I can't believe they put in a short 88 at tier6 with worse turret bloom than the 3001P, god damn.

At least when you put the DCA 45 on the ARL or the 122 on the KV-85 it's your own choice and you get something out of that Faustian bargain that's better than 132mm pen/220 alpha. I only barely tolerate it on the T-150 either, and the 107mm Zis-6 is a great tier6 gun.

See, I have this crazy need to try and lead moving targets because it's better than hoping pubbies will kill fast targets, so I'm allergic to turret bloom. 0.16 is the most I'll put up with without whining about it, and usually only because it's in tiers where most tanks aren't doing much better than that anyway. I'm spoiled by the M6's 0.12 turret.

I sure like the short 88 but it already barely justifies 0.16 turret bloom on the 3601H, 3001P and Skoda T40.

It's worth considering that the Japtiger has terrible turret traverse which offsets the bloom somewhat. The traverse and movement bloom on the chassis are also better than the 3601's. And unlike the 3601 it can sidescrape.

It's essentially a superior clone of the 8.8 toting 3601, but that doesn't mean that it's good - as the M6 exists. At the very least, what I can say is that you might find solace in the fact that it's not as bad as the 90 mil on the ARL-44, which belongs in another world altogether, and is generally best left unspoken.

The thing about leading moving targets is that the short 88 has pretty bad shell velocity. If you're going to attempt something of the sort then you might as well get yourself a 3601, slap on the Konisch and pretend you're still a medium.

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Has anyone figured a workable approach to drive the JPTiger? I've been advised to drive it like a VK3601H with the 88, but I don't really know what that entails since I've never driven one.

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On 2016/2/1 at 4:45 PM, Sabrechien said:

Has anyone figured a workable approach to drive the JPTiger? I've been advised to drive it like a VK3601H with the 88, but I don't really know what that entails since I've never driven one.

basically you don't go solo. it can't tank a corner against multiple tanks like a T-150 could, and while the gun handling is better than Russian, you still need to fully aim to ensure hit and damage, since at most ranges (especially close range) missing can be costly

on the Asia server everyone gets to rent this tank for 30 days

and oh boy now i know why. its sh*t.

132 AP pen, and 171 APCR pen. i've had to fire sprem at the front of an equal tier HT like the O-I, and I still have to aim at the turret weakspots. but that's mostly to do with the OP O-I

for a box tank its is extremely squishy. it has the same armor thickness of the KV-1, but the KV-1 was at tier 5, and it still has those troll armor zones that can still bounce shots. that doesn't happen in this box. 

the speed is ok, but turns like a whale. both the hull and turret

the tank is adequately not OP. and that's fine as a premium tank at tier 6. but i've heard that it's such a bad premium tank and that no one buys it anymore. 

and now these things are flooding tier 6, becoming food for most other tanks

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