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Chieftain, FV215b replacement

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Wow, way to be a condescending jackass. I think it is pretty known by now and most people are well aware that the 120mm ufp stated in books like Ogorkierwicz's Cold War Hot Science, 2001 isn't the true armor value of the tank. This is not new information and has already been discussed ad nauseam.

 What I WAS referring to by saying it had Russian bias armor values was the tendency of Wargaming to choose a tank and absolutely and categorically insist that that tank must be real and have its historical armor values even to the extent of sending people multiple times to get the most accurate readings possible. All while doing things at the same time like buffing the lfp of the IS-7(not to mention magic "30mm" spaced armor), both plates of the Vk. B, and the ufp of the IS-3 etc. Look, it's quite simple, they turn a blind eye to historicity for popular tanks i.e. most commonly Russian ones (just look at their demographics) for game play/balance reasons but yet require historical armor values on tanks such as this one even to the detriment of game play in said tank. And I bet you can guess which nation's tanks aren't the ones with the absolute most historical armor values that could ever possibly be assigned to them.

FYI if WG wanted to go full historical accuracy on the IS-7, you'd have to face 350mm+ effective UFP AND LFP at the same time. In reality the prototype had a shit-ton more armor than it has in-game (edit: actually the turret got bumped up to 350mm front, 240mm everywhere else in its 1947 iteration. topkek). Don't get me started with its mobility, which it once had (drag-racing with T-54s, fun days) before it got nerfed for balancing.

Don't get me started with what WG could've done with the Obj 907's armor, because I'm sure you'd enjoy 162mm UFP raw thickness + 150mm LFP raw at 50 degree angle... on a MT. Maybe even jump down to low tiers with the KV-1E, because I'm sure a tier 5 with 105mm of hull armor + 120mm turret + an 85mm is going to be completely balanced should WG bother to give it that hull.

And don't forget, T-54 had its turret armor nerfed to butter for "historical" HD model reasons. It used to be a hell of a lot better, but now any scrub with 220 pen or higher can cheese through the face.

Plus not only Russians have "unhistorical" armor profiles. Easy Eight and Jumbo Sherman exist with armor behind gun mantlet, and T29 is often contested to have an overbuffed gun mantlet. So the USSR is just like any other nation: some are overbuffed, some are completely fine, and a few are even worse than they were.

...

Back to the Chieftan, I'm completely fine with this tank's armor values. As long as the side isn't x3 overpenned by a 150mm I'd be willing to drive this to a close-range battle.

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FYI if WG wanted to go full historical accuracy on the IS-7, you'd have to face 350mm+ effective UFP AND LFP at the same time. In reality the prototype had a shit-ton more armor than it has in-game (minus turret, which in comparison is paper at ~210mm). Don't get me started with its mobility, which it once had (drag-racing with T-54s, fun days) before it got nerfed for balancing.

Don't get me started with what WG could've done with the Obj 907's armor, because I'm sure you'd enjoy 162mm UFP raw thickness + 150mm LFP raw at 50 degree angle... on a MT. Maybe even jump down to low tiers with the KV-1E, because I'm sure a tier 5 with 105mm of hull armor is going to be completely balanced should WG bother to give it that hull.

And don't forget, T-54 had its turret armor nerfed to butter for "historical" HD model reasons. It used to be a hell of a lot better, but now any scrub with 220 pen or higher can cheese through the face.

Plus not only Russians have "unhistorical" armor profiles. Easy Eight and Jumbo Sherman exist with armor behind gun mantlet, and T29 is often contested to have an overbuffed gun mantlet. So the USSR is just like any other nation: some are overbuffed, some are completely fine, and a few are even worse than they were.

...

Back to the Chieftan, I'm completely fine with this tank's armor values. As long as the side isn't x3 overpenned by a 150mm I'd be willing to drive this to a close-range battle.

...........Did you even bother to try to understand the point of my post? 

 

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Your clan tag, ORLY, is perfect for my opinion of this. Then I remember to ask when you ground the BP, because when I did it about half a year to a year ago, it was very, very meh at best and at worst mind-blowing to play.

Did you know that there was a terrorist attack at a French airport (in Paris) called Orly Airport once? My reaction to that was also "O rly?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Airport_attack

wat-meme.jpg

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...........Did you even bother to try to understand the point of my post? 

 

Yes.

They don't turn a blind eye to popular tanks. T-54? turret buttered despite people saying "russian bias". Jagdtiger? MG weakspot removed despite "anti-german bias". Pershing? UFP buffed. Super Pershing? Buffed. etc.etc.etc.

A lot of your post heavily implies that the game is biased to Russians. Point is, it's not. Russians aren't the only ones who get the blind eye treatment (T29 turret best, Das Jagdtiger 8.8 still keeps stronk anti-175 pen LFP, etc.), nor are they immune to "historically accurate armor" nerfs (T-54 RIP TURRET), or even immune to weakspots inherit to their design (turret cap of the 430 and 140 anyone?). Every nation, yes even the Russians, have their share of unhistorical and historical armor.

The heavy implication being found in this quote:

And I bet you can guess which nation's tanks aren't the ones with the absolute most historical armor values that could ever possibly be assigned to them.

while talking about the IS-3 and IS-7 before that.

And remember, armor isn't the only balancing mechanic WG can twist around, because if they felt like it they can give the SU-100 330mm penetration HEAT on top of 190mm+ AP because it could fire that IRL out of the D-10T.

As a final parting statement, your statement that WG wants "the absolute most historical armor values" could mean the Ferdinand gets a 100mm thick hull, because technically only the Elefant (variation of the original Ferdinand) had it. But they didn't, because WG does not stick to that rule for any of the nations, not just Russians.

Oh yeah, IS-6 had 120mm of hull armor on front and sides. WG could've also done that, but they didn't.

Point stands, no Russian bias in armor. I'm completely fine with the Chieftain's current armor if the gun stats stay. 

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2300 buff is really solid, as this would put it as a viable city brawl tank while also giving it an option to play 3rd line support.

 

Also, the fact that it has such an insanely dominant advantage in aim/dispersion means you can actually get away with VS and use something else without penalty.

 

Right now the general setup for fv215 is VS/Rammer/vent with Repair/food/AFE, crew death sometimes can severely ruin a game, if the transmission is no longer front mounted, you can definitely do away with AFE and get medkit back. Hell, you can even go Rammer/vent/Spall and keep AFE since Spall would reduce crew death to a manageable level while providing some HE resistance.

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https://thearmoredpatrol.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/more-chieftain-mk-6-stat-changees/

Engine buffed from 720 to 750 HP

Power-To-Weight buffed from 13,09 to 13,64.

Rate of fire buffed from 7,449 to 7,584

Damage Per Minute buffed from 2979,6 to 3033,8

Reload time buffed from 8,055 to 7,911

Ummm.... k. Cause it needed even more DPM.

Engine buff takes its effective HP/ton from 10.5 to 10.9. Not noticeable.

 

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https://thearmoredpatrol.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/more-chieftain-mk-6-stat-changees/

Engine buffed from 720 to 750 HP

Power-To-Weight buffed from 13,09 to 13,64.

Rate of fire buffed from 7,449 to 7,584

Damage Per Minute buffed from 2979,6 to 3033,8

Reload time buffed from 8,055 to 7,911

Ummm.... k. Cause it needed even more DPM.

Engine buff takes its effective HP/ton from 10.5 to 10.9. Not noticeable.

 

They are trying to make amends for the past 4 years of ignoring the Brit heavies. 

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https://thearmoredpatrol.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/more-chieftain-mk-6-stat-changees/

Engine buffed from 720 to 750 HP

Power-To-Weight buffed from 13,09 to 13,64.

Rate of fire buffed from 7,449 to 7,584

Damage Per Minute buffed from 2979,6 to 3033,8

Reload time buffed from 8,055 to 7,911

Ummm.... k. Cause it needed even more DPM.

Engine buff takes its effective HP/ton from 10.5 to 10.9. Not noticeable.

 

It's sexy as fuck, has an awesome gun, armor seems lacking at some part but hell yeah, I want this tank badly. If you look at it you don't even need to expose yourself a lot because the gun is like a rail gun.

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Yeah, I definitely want this tank, will grind for it. RUmed/STB DPM on a heavy with laser accuracy and a hard turret with depression? Yes please. In case they do bring down the nerf hammer at some point, this line will still be worth grinding because of the Conqueror anyway.

On another note it's funny how underwhelming the Type 5 Heavy is in comparison to the Chieftain despite the tanks being released one patch apart.

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So why is Churchill VII still Cromwell on McDonald's diet, Black Prince a majestic shit and Caernarvon fatty Centurion?

That is old world shit. We need a new date system like the Jesus folk  

BC - Before Chieftain would encompass all the turds you mentioned  

 

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Good lord its cracked 3k base DPM, crew+ equipment not involved. 

At this point its already a better MT than the FV4202, and I wouldn't be surprised to see its mobility buffed above a Centurion's.

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That is old world shit. We need a new date system like the Jesus folk  

BC - Before Chieftain would encompass all the turds you mentioned  

 

Correction: "Before Conqueror"

That 120mm ain't no turd at all.

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APDS works like AP or APCR ? 

It should work like APCR.

On topic - dunno, it seems they are making Chieftain a gimmick, a DPM & hull-down gimmick. Or it's just me wanting tier 10 that isn't limited in one role. Not that I don't want one :D. Also I think it's now highly susceptible to nerfs and further rebalance so I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Wow, way to be a condescending jackass. I think it is pretty known by now and most people are well aware that the 120mm ufp stated in books like Ogorkierwicz's Cold War Hot Science, 2001 isn't the true armor value of the tank. This is not new information and has already been discussed ad nauseam.

 What I WAS referring to by saying it had Russian bias armor values was the tendency of Wargaming to choose a tank and absolutely and categorically insist that that tank must be real and have its historical armor values even to the extent of sending people multiple times to get the most accurate readings possible. All while doing things at the same time like buffing the lfp of the IS-7(not to mention magic "30mm" spaced armor), both plates of the Vk. B, and the ufp of the IS-3 etc. Look, it's quite simple, they turn a blind eye to historicity for popular tanks i.e. most commonly Russian ones (just look at their demographics) for game play/balance reasons but yet require historical armor values on tanks such as this one even to the detriment of game play in said tank. And I bet you can guess which nation's tanks aren't the ones with the absolute most historical armor values that could ever possibly be assigned to them.

so when RU tanks are historical its bias, and when nonRU tanks are historical its bias again? Say what?

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