Separate WoWS forum

[RansomMoney 1]

anyone think its only fair that World of Warships get their own forum instead of just a section? I mean armored warfare got a forum :/

[kolni 69,670,872]

AW is another developer, which means the fanbase is going to be different and the two WoT/AW crowds might not mix so well, which is why the split was a good call. 

Warships have their own sub-forum and since the interest in it is way lower than tanks a full forum is kind of unnecessary at the moment and nothing is stopping the sub-forum from expanding incase it hits big, but for now WoWS isn't popular enough

[ninjaman217 31]

I was thinking more of a separate warthunder forum but do remember that everything costs money

[Itchi 402]

Just need a few more sections, not a whole new forum. 

[OnboardG1 1,279]

I think a separate forum with its own identity would be beneficial (I've had a few people say "WoTLabs does ships? I never thought to look there"). That said Never has hosting costs and it's not something I expect him to provide.

[MntRunner 223]

There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own WoWSLabs forum. 

[OnboardG1 1,279]

There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own WoWSLabs forum. 

Just lack of technical expertise, time, inclination and desire to split a perfectly well integrated community.

If WoWS gets huge and the demand is there I might be willing to help bankroll WoWSLabs and I'd likely speak to Never about it because the "Labs" brand is very strong.

[MntRunner 223]

Onboard, 

I was referring to the original poster, not you. If the original poster really wants a forum he should build it instead of expecting others to make it for him. 

[Itchi 402]

Just lack of technical expertise, time, inclination and desire to split a perfectly well integrated community.

If WoWS gets huge and the demand is there I might be willing to help bankroll WoWSLabs and I'd likely speak to Never about it because the "Labs" brand is very strong.

As would I. I currently am waiting for an adequate API release to begin working on metrics for ships. Assuming that won't eat up all of my free/sane time - I would also be willing to co-champion a site. 

[OnboardG1 1,279]

Onboard, 

I was referring to the original poster, not you. If the original poster really wants a forum he should build it instead of expecting others to make it for him. 

Fair, but the "do it yourself" response is pretty much as helpful as the "Build me a forum" OP.

As would I. I currently am waiting for an adequate API release to begin working on metrics for ships. Assuming that won't eat up all of my free/sane time - I would also be willing to co-champion a site. 

There's a guy doing metric work on the RU and EU forums. I can see if he wants to drop by the math lab section.

Fun fact, iOS autocorrected that to "meth lab".

[FrodoTSolo 253]

Fun fact, iOS autocorrected that to "meth lab".

I want to believe that android devices trust you meant math, but iOS know that their users tend to be more into meth!

[MntRunner 223]

Fair, but the "do it yourself" response is pretty much as helpful as the "Build me a forum" OP.

Touche.

[Jarkorsis 92]

So, Itchi, what are you looking as a formula? I am just curious.

[Fenxis 76]

Just lack of technical expertise, time, inclination and desire to split a perfectly well integrated community.

If WoWS gets huge and the demand is there I might be willing to help bankroll WoWSLabs and I'd likely speak to Never about it because the "Labs" brand is very strong.

For now I don't know if you need a full server and forum experience... why not just have WoWSLabs.com point to the WoTLabs server?

[Itchi 402]

So, Itchi, what are you looking as a formula? I am just curious.

It will ultimately depend on what is provided in the API, most likely similar to wn7. 

 

Vbaddict has has a skeleton system set up for ships data, but until there is a significant data set, it will be hard to do a expected value based system akin to wn8. 

I'm leaning towards expected damage per class & tier, but would need individual stats from the feed to determine if that distribution methodology would work. 

At the mercy of the API unfortunately 

[RansomMoney 1]

There is nothing stopping you from setting up your own WoWSLabs forum. 

Very expensive...

[MntRunner 223]

Very expensive...

So it's expensive for you, but you have no problem asking someone else to make it?

[Storm 821]

So it's expensive for you, but you have no problem asking someone else to make it?

Well, Never *is* making money from wotlabs (it's basically his job), so assuming there was enough interest in it I don't see why he couldn't do it, there was enough interest in AW to create ArmouredLabs after all.

Right now I don't think another forum is feasible, depending on how some things pan out in the future it could definitely be an option however.

[RansomMoney 1]

Well, Never *is* making money from wotlabs (it's basically his job), so assuming there was enough interest in it I don't see why he couldn't do it, there was enough interest in AW to create ArmouredLabs after all.

Right now I don't think another forum is feasible, depending on how some things pan out in the future it could definitely be an option however.

After all, once interest for WoWS grows a bit more, a forum for WoWS could be very profitable and soon be self sustainable 

[How_Terrible 529]

Well, Never *is* making money from wotlabs (it's basically his job), so assuming there was enough interest in it I don't see why he couldn't do it, there was enough interest in AW to create ArmouredLabs after all.

Right now I don't think another forum is feasible, depending on how some things pan out in the future it could definitely be an option however.

Wrong, at best Never might break even on Wotlabs and its associated forum, but even that is doubtful. Given the amount of server space and bandwidth used this site probably costs between $500 and $ 1,000 per month to operate. And that isn't even considering the untold number of hours he has spent coding Wotlabs, and then adding, maintaining, and upgrading the forums. If never wanted to make a shit ton of money he would have found something else to do with his time, because he almost certainly isn't doing that here.

 

I PM'd Never and Solono. Hopefully one, or maybe even both, of them will swing by to comment on how expensive it is to actually run a site like this.

[Solono 5,518]

I cannot comment on current costs of Wotlabs to run, but it is at least $750 a month at the most conservative.

The amount that ad revenue pulls in isn't enough to sustain it, that is why the Patron program was even created. I would say a lot of people would be shocked at how little is pulled in via the ads. For example, unless my memory is faulty, the forum cannot even survive off revenue alone when you factor in license cost, plug-in costs and server rental.     

Right now, Ships isn't big enough to warrant its own section, although I suspect it will get there sooner rather than later. Plus I would personally wait until release before giving it one.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Solono

[Storm 821]

Wrong, at best Never might break even on Wotlabs and its associated forum, but even that is doubtful. Given the amount of server space and bandwidth used this site probably costs between $500 and $ 1,000 per month to operate. And that isn't even considering the untold number of hours he has spent coding Wotlabs, and then adding, maintaining, and upgrading the forums.

I could have sworn I read a post by never saying he makes a certain amount of money an hour, though I forgot the specifics and it was a while ago, so things might have changed.

Though if he wasn't breaking even, not sure he would be able to run wotlabs, as running an internet tanks forum is not quite as important as food and other necessities. 

[Itchi 402]

Wrong, at best Never might break even on Wotlabs and its associated forum, but even that is doubtful. Given the amount of server space and bandwidth used this site probably costs between $500 and $ 1,000 per month to operate. And that isn't even considering the untold number of hours he has spent coding Wotlabs, and then adding, maintaining, and upgrading the forums. If never wanted to make a shit ton of money he would have found something else to do with his time, because he almost certainly isn't doing that here.

 

I PM'd Never and Solono. Hopefully one, or maybe even both, of them will swing by to comment on how expensive it is to actually run a site like this.

Wrong. 

Never makes 3x Brazil's minimum wage from Labs. Asked him during his stream recently 

[Fenxis 76]

The amount that ad revenue pulls in isn't enough to sustain it, that is why the Patron program was even created. I would say a lot of people would be shocked at how little is pulled in via the ads.

I've seen that from some people who used to blog for a living... ads no longer are sustainable forms of revenue as companies are figuring out that between adblock and us not clicking on them a whole lot it isn't worth buying them for general web; there's still some money in "sponsored stories" though.

[Never 7,717]

Ok, I'll give you guys some figures. Spoiler alert though: Another forum isn't feasible.

An IPB license costs $175. This is a one time payment, but every 6 months is has a renewal of 30$. WoTLabs has a larger renewal cost (arond $80 every 6 months, don't remember the exact number) because of the Chat, the Blog app and a few more mods we use that cost money and have to be renewed.

The server for the forum costs $160 a month. What Solono said is spot on, the forum doesn't make even nearly that amount in ads and is unable to support itself.

But that's WoTLabs Forum, let's talk about ArmoredLabs:

ArmoredLabs is a little bit different than WoTLabs. Instead of buying a license, ArmoredLabs is being hosted by IPS (Invision Power Services, the developer of IPB) themselves, for a cost of $30 a month. That's the bare minimum possible, and right now it works because ArmoredLabs has a small userbase. $30 per month will only support 40 users online, so if the forum grows I'll have to either increase my plan with IPS (very expensive) or buy a license (BIG one time cost) and host it myself. ArmoredLabs itself is pretty much a bet at this point. It costs more than it has any right to for the amount of traffic it gets. I'm hoping that by release (or at least Open Beta) the forum will grow more.

So, WoTLabs Forum and ArmoredLabs can't pay for themselves in ads, what's keeping them alive? Essentially, WoTLabs and Patreon. This is what WoTLabs costs:

Database server "Sherman": $350 a month. Has 4 500gb SSD's in RAID 5 for fast storage that is essentially half the cost of the entire server.
Application server "Swinton": $250 a month.
Forum server "Curtana": $160 a month.
TeamSpeak server: $20 a month.
ArmoredLabs (Software and Hosting): $30 a month.
WoTLabs Forum (Software only): $13~ a month ($80 twice a year).

It's no secret that I'm doing this full time, so that means I can cover my basic necessities. Now, this is only possible because I live in Brazil, and thanks to currency conversion and cheaper living costs compred to the US, I can afford it from WoTLabs. If I was in the US, I'd be making less than the minimum wage. I'm not making a shitton of money, but I'm making enough so I can live by  I could certainly get a job that paid much more, but then I'd have pretty much no time to work on WoTLabs, which takes up a lot of time as it is.

Also, WoTLabs is the #1 reason why I fuck up my sleep schedule so often. I've never pulled so many all nighters in a job before.