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VK 4502B: Troll or be Trolled Appreciators Guild

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18 hours ago, sr360 said:

No, that's actual damage blocked. The game keeps track of it. In-game it shows if you hover over your armor use value, and wotlabs shows it too.

I know but how do you calculate that ratio, damage TAKEN is not in the wotlabs, so what do you divide that damage blocked by?

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6 hours ago, Golem501 said:

I know but how do you calculate that ratio, damage TAKEN is not in the wotlabs, so what do you divide that damage blocked by?

Damage taken is in the API. That number is actual damage blocked from AP/APCR/HEAT rounds (HE excluded). Armor use is shown in-game as, IIRC, is damage received.

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2 minutes ago, sr360 said:

Damage taken is in the API. That number is actual damage blocked from AP/APCR/HEAT rounds (HE excluded). Armor use is shown in-game as, IIRC, is damage received.

RIGHT! got it so... for example my E75 I can check in VBA damage taken is 1,595 per battle. WoTlabs shows damage blocked is 1179 per battle ->  = 0.74 i.e. I am scrub and should hand in my WoTlabs membership :'( 

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Hi Everyone, wanted to resurrect this thread to ask a few basic questions.

There's an XP conversion sale coming up soon WG announced. I was planning on buying my way to the VKB since I have most of the modules unlocked through the e100/e75 line.  I have a 2 skill Tiger 1 crew waiting to be put to use somewhere.

1) are there any gems I should be stopping at to play through for fun besides the VKB?

2)This thing recently got an HD(buff?), anything besides "keep your front to the enemy at all costs" I see a lot with this tank? Any light/med I play I just go around them and/or try to flank later game from the side or rear. I'm admittedly very uncomfortable with heavy tanks since they don't let me un-screw myself by running away from a bad fight I got myself into. I'm trying to get better with armor use and failing until  get better seems to be the method people suggest.

I hear people say the maus is "bad" but it seems like a novelty/fun tank in platoons and would like to try it out, is the VKB the "keeper" in the line, similar to the E75?

Thanks in advance.

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1. Nothing else is worth playing.  I only ground up the line for the personal missions.  So far it has proved useful.

2. The turret is about 260mm and the hull is around 300, so 9/10's will still be able to pen you.  There's also 170mm weak points on the upper hull.
http://tanks.gg/wot/tank/vk-4502-b#tab:model.compare:t30

I haven't played the Maus yet, but the E75 is not the keeper on that line.  It's great when not against 10's but it's shit when it faces them.  E100 is at least as good.

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Thanks engineered!

OK, I'm glad I'm not the only one that felt that way about the E75. I pushed the crew in it to the E100 and have been putting off getting another crew in it because it never felt as good as what I kept reading about it. I might just sell it then.

You are referring to the machine gun port, yes? I thought I saw or read somewhere that they removed the front port weakspot, I guess not.

The older posts suggest to not side scrape, but to push forward trying to hide the nearside drive wheel,  is this still the case?

 

 

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I just bought the Maus on sale and did HT-15.4. It's great for that. I blocked a lot more damage in the Maus than the VKB. However, the VKB is absolutely the best for HT-12.x because the hit points or so high on the Maus.

Now that I'm done with all of the heavy missions, I don't even have a crew in the VKB. It's so slow and one dimensional that I don't see myself playing it just for fun.

1 hour ago, kreigermann said:

You are referring to the machine gun port, yes? I thought I saw or read somewhere that they removed the front port weakspot, I guess not.

The older posts suggest to not side scrape, but to push forward trying to hide the nearside drive wheel,  is this still the case?

I don't know if they removed the front port weak spot, but even if they did the slope on it makes it weaker than the rest of the upper front plate.

Note that several high tier TD's (e.g. T110E4) can pen your upper front plate fairly reliably when straight-on. That's why angling around a corner is so helpful.

The sides are weak. So, you actually want to bait people into shooting at your angled front hull. Do not hide your lower front plate since it's stronger than the upper part.

If you see them aim high, then keep your turret pointed straight at them and wiggle the tank front-to-back to make your turret cheeks and cupola harder to hit.

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Yea, according to tanks.gg the frontal armour is all 200mm, but the gunport is not angled.  There still is the viewport at 175mm though.

Over angling the front around a corner is a great way to bait shot for the HT missions

This is what the tank looks like to T30 AP.

uKNDyhj.png

 

When you angle you just have to worry about your drive wheel weak spot and turret face.

AtlDPGq.png

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This thing blows. It's so inflexible it's not even funny, you're basically stuck in one or two spots per map hoping enemies weaker than you are dumb enough to drive right in front of you and hack it out. The armor is actually pretty lame, even when optimally angled typical 340 HEAT will still get through and the horrible side armor and mounted turret combo makes it easy as hell to outmaneuver, flank, and generally torment. The side armor is such a problem pushing is often a bad idea unless we're talking a straight line with walls on either side or a lot of support, and even then you run into any non-retarded tank in a decent position gg trying to advance under a hail of gold ammo. The gun's DPM and handling are anemic, so even when you find yourself holding back a tide in a good position your damage output is painfully slow and enemies can play peekaboo against your 2.9 aim time and heftier bloom. It's painfully slow as well outside of hard terrain, another one of these tanks that sacrifices everything for armor that can be bypassed by 22.

Overall it's a retard tank, just drive forward and hope for the best. Plows over tier 9s, but is easy credits for tier 10s which will either run circles around you or simply plow right over you with sheer mass since you can't use terrain, sidescrape, flank, retreat, anything much outside of rrr click click click. I can't see any reason the E-75 wouldn't just be the better tank overall, the thicker lower does not seem worth staggering around every obstacle in giant 747 turns, having such bad side armor, and having zero ability to use terrain. At least it does do heavy missions pretty easily.

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I used it for HT-12.4 and then moved the crew. Haven't decided if I'm going to sell it or not, but it'll be on the chopping block if I need the credits. Grinding the Jagdtiger has made me lose all respect for the VKB. They are just slow bags of HP for farming. 

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E75 is a much better tank.  The only thing the VKB is good for is farming HT blocked mission off tomatoes.  Even than is rare these days as most give up or spam gold/HE.

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Half rant/half singing the praises of the 4502B

*Rant contains references to premium ammunition*

Spoiler

VKB is one of the few tanks that make me rage against gold ammo. It has frontal weakspots (albeit small ones) and can be easily flanked, but the vast majority of people see one and immediately press '2'. Instead of attacking from a different angle (or not brawling with same-tier heavies), that T54 just needs to sit in front of me and spam HEAT through my thickest armor. Or instead when it's a 3v1, plebs are content to pay their way to victory instead of using their brain cell to think, group up, and rush me. One of the biggest weaknesses of this tank is that it can only effectively angle against a limited arc of incoming fire before the weak hull sides are exposed. So when an easy flanking route is available and the tank(s) continue to sit in front of me firing premium ammo, my blood boils.

Don't get me wrong, premium ammo has its uses. But in many cases one can avoid firing it by simply positioning oneself better or playing to the strengths of your tank, not the enemy. In many cases pubs use it as a crutch instead of thinking, which hinders their development as a player.

 

Now, on to the praising.

Yes, it's a one-trick pony. Yes, the E75 is a better all-around tank. But for someone who enjoys tanking and bouncing shots more than anything in this game, the 4502B is a keeper. Not only is it great for missions, nothing is better at stomping IS3's and IS6s, and any of those stupid Japanese heavies I come across. This tank really thrives in the corridor meta. Nothing warms my cold heart better than the sound of shells bouncing off my 4502Broken.

 

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3 hours ago, monjardin said:

Nice. How much of that is solo?

About 1/3. The thing is, the one trick this tank has is very, very powerful. The ability to essentially deny a lane to an enemy-- especially if that lane is a critical one-- means a lot. With almost 2.1k average bouncdd damage per game, it takes 2 tanks worth of damage to take me down. Only the E3 locks down lanes better.

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Really, it's not even that the tank is bad, it has distinctive strengths than can be leveraged. The problem is it also has distinctive weaknesses than can be exploited, and the best way to mitigate those weaknesses is with teamwork. You know, that thing no one in this stupid game ever does. It reminds me a lot of the T28 Prototype in that the tank itself is fine with strong advantages, but it's brutal for solo because your team will not use common fucking sense so you can utilize it.

There are two major experiences that dominate my memory of both tanks:

One, watching your flank melt before you even get there despite the fact if your retards would wait literally 1 fucking minute for you to get into position you could easily break the other team using your armor and firepower. Instead all these faster tier 7-8 mediums and crap race forward and start peeking against tier 8-9 TDs and heavies. In the 2 minutes it takes to get to the front, half your flank has managed to kill themselves and now it's 3v6 and the opportunity to tank the hits is long gone. Now it's just buy time and do as much damage as possible because good luck fighting when outnumbered in a tank with no side armor unless the terrain is ideal.

Two, instead of sitting BEHIND you, preventing any flanks and sneaking in shots while you tank, your lower tier 46% morons want to sit on FRONT of you, blocking your ability to dish out damage and bounce shots against weaker tanks. I don't know how many times in this thing in the 20 or so games I played I had some goddamn moron in a tier 8 peeking into 3 tanks and making it impossible for me to engage them while he melted under their barrage of shots, eventually leaving me alone against 3 to get flanked to hell. If they will just stop tryharding like a coked up reroll in a tier 10 RU hovermed and CHILL you can often easily wear down a flank. I had more trouble with this in the VK than the T28 because the rear mounted turret really screws you when some one wants to juke back and forth in your way between you and targets. With both the VK and T28 your massive side armor liability means you have limited angles to engage enemies, and when one or two vegetables are in your way trying to position around them often means offering shots to your weak sides.

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Thread necro because fuck this tank. Horrid rate of fire, troll gun, armor that varies between between bouncing everything or getting penned by tier 8s. I don't even know how zap 3 marked the 95, this thing is a fucking pig when trying to move anywhere.

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On 4/10/2016 at 9:17 AM, sr360 said:

About 1/3. The thing is, the one trick this tank has is very, very powerful. The ability to essentially deny a lane to an enemy-- especially if that lane is a critical one-- means a lot. With almost 2.1k average bouncdd damage per game, it takes 2 tanks worth of damage to take me down. Only the E3 locks down lanes better.

 

On 8/13/2016 at 6:29 AM, skyf24 said:

Thread necro because fuck this tank. Horrid rate of fire, troll gun, armor that varies between between bouncing everything or getting penned by tier 8s. I don't even know how zap 3 marked the 95, this thing is a fucking pig when trying to move anywhere.

This tank is a perfect member of a tier 9 platoon, and very powerful in a role of a shield. 81% WR is nice, but to carry pubs solo, you need E 50/skoda/T-10/patton.....T-54...basically a jack of all trades, not a specialist.

 

On 4/23/2016 at 11:56 PM, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Really, it's not even that the tank is bad, it has distinctive strengths than can be leveraged. The problem is it also has distinctive weaknesses than can be exploited, and the best way to mitigate those weaknesses is with teamwork. You know, that thing no one in this stupid game ever does. It reminds me a lot of the T28 Prototype in that the tank itself is fine with strong advantages, but it's brutal for solo because your team will not use common fucking sense so you can utilize it.

There are two major experiences that dominate my memory of both tanks:

One, watching your flank melt before you even get there despite the fact if your retards would wait literally 1 fucking minute for you to get into position you could easily break the other team using your armor and firepower. Instead all these faster tier 7-8 mediums and crap race forward and start peeking against tier 8-9 TDs and heavies. In the 2 minutes it takes to get to the front, half your flank has managed to kill themselves and now it's 3v6 and the opportunity to tank the hits is long gone. Now it's just buy time and do as much damage as possible because good luck fighting when outnumbered in a tank with no side armor unless the terrain is ideal.

Two, instead of sitting BEHIND you, preventing any flanks and sneaking in shots while you tank, your lower tier 46% morons want to sit on FRONT of you, blocking your ability to dish out damage and bounce shots against weaker tanks. I don't know how many times in this thing in the 20 or so games I played I had some goddamn moron in a tier 8 peeking into 3 tanks and making it impossible for me to engage them while he melted under their barrage of shots, eventually leaving me alone against 3 to get flanked to hell. If they will just stop tryharding like a coked up reroll in a tier 10 RU hovermed and CHILL you can often easily wear down a flank. I had more trouble with this in the VK than the T28 because the rear mounted turret really screws you when some one wants to juke back and forth in your way between you and targets. With both the VK and T28 your massive side armor liability means you have limited angles to engage enemies, and when one or two vegetables are in your way trying to position around them often means offering shots to your weak sides.

basically this!

E 75 is >>>>>>>>>>>VK solo, but ads less to a platoon. Stronger sides are just the icing on the cake, but medium level traverse+120 mm sides, and nobody can flank you solo, except the fastest lights. Gun depression is also better on e 75.

VK sucks in solo because bad rof+bad traverse, and everybody flanks you.Arty shits over you more, because of the aircraft carrier sized engine deck. In E 75 arty hits you in the turret for 2x less, and 120 mm sides prevents you being fully penned by HE from any angle.

VK burns from frontal and side shots. E 75 never. No food in VK...

front is strong, yes, but tier 9 tds like Jag shoot right through UFP, and tier x tds too (jagzilla, not grille), only to set you on fire.

UFP is less reliant on angle than E 75 - the pointy box can be negated close range easier, I simply shoot UFP from e 75 if in a high tank.

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played VK-B for a mission, got many potato games (trying to bait shots is never a good idea, even with VK-B) but these 2 games where kinda ok:

(this was so much rage, i bounced 8400, but due to stronk RNG, i didnt deal 3k dmg... (16 shots, 11 hits, 5 pens...)

shot_843.jpg

This one i made it:

shot_844.jpg

Just R-R-R and stomp them, it works great :)

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42 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Just R-R-R and stomp them, it works great :)

Platooned, yea...

VKB is a better Maus tier for tier in a pushing role.

but much easier to deal with if he is alone than a lone Maus. Squishier side armor by a mile, less HP to trade, and there is no angle where he is perfectly safe if you have enough gold penetration (ok, with Maus too, but just for rly high penn, 311/330 does not work if he angles correct...352 apcr works of the JPE silver bullets - or better say gold).

Also, any prolonged fight and i am sure that enemy VKBs have full arty attention. Arty needs to get lucky only once, maus can sponge HE 3-4 hits more, and tier 9 artier are better anyway (M53/55)

I sold it because i can not platoon so often, and my mates wanna only wolfpacks anyway. It was great when i got support from my team, but Jesse was right on the point.

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Played it a bit to do the 50k dmg blocked, and omg, its soooooo good, i can curbstomp whole flanks vs idiots :P

Highlights, all solo (i had more good games)

http://wotreplays.com/site/2922011#karelia-gehaktemolen-vk_45_02_p_ausf_b7

http://wotreplays.com/site/2922006#steppes-gehaktemolen-vk_45_02_p_ausf_b7

http://wotreplays.com/site/2922009#ensk-gehaktemolen-vk_45_02_p_ausf_b7

http://wotreplays.com/site/2922023#steppes-gehaktemolen-vk_45_02_p_ausf_b7

This game was trully brutal (and would have also been also HT-15-4) http://wotreplays.com/site/2921163#ruinberg-gehaktemolen-vk_45_02_p_ausf_b7

I rly dont get how people can say its ``not that good``, its OP as fuck vs idiots aka 3/4 of the playerbase, just dont hide, but instead show your front, gun down the fast tanks and tanks with high pen first, and dont sit still to minimze RNG shots to the hatch. Its also a good tektik to first poke you UFP, let them bounce that, and after that good forward to shoot.

AND

Dont try to sidescrape, show your entire front and perhaps angle a bit left / fight (wigle) all sidescraping does is lure people into shooting your turret, they should instead shoot the UFP / LFP

ps: and VK-B is not even the best tier 9 heavy, thats the ST-1, go figure how OP an ST-1 is :P

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I don't think it's a bad tank, it just feels like a tank where it's heavily about what your opponent and team does. If enemies are dumb, you can hammer them. If they aren't dumb, they'll avoid or contain you and keep you irrelevant for a lot of the game. If your allies are smart, you can anchor and tank while they pick the enemy apart. If your team is dumb, they drive in front of you and die or won't cover your flank and leave you stuck unable to advance and engage. The tank feels very dependent on what other players are doing.

When I think about facing these I'm never very afraid of one. You have a LOT of choices in how to deal with it: avoid it entirely, track it, flank it, keep it from advancing by positioning to hit its side if it tries, just keep him lit for flank snipers and arty... if you have enough pen you can even just gold ammo through the front. If it's advancing on you, pull back behind corners and shoot it in the suspension as it tries to chase you. You can even face hug FTW in many tanks because this thing is tall and can't point down. You literally cannot shoot down on an IS-3 hugging your side! Even light tank yolo circling is a serious threat to it. It's the sort of tank that can be outplayed easily if you know its laundry list of vulnerabilities.

The only thing I fear when facing these tanks is a good player killing off my stupid players early and putting us at a numerical disadvantage. Even then that generally requires he be top tier on a map with arty shelter or minimal arty.

TL;DR version: tank is good until it runs into an opponent who isn't terrible, then it's just shit.

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Got mine yesterday. Took me 5-6 battles to do the HT12.4 (block 3x your HP worth of dmg). It was easymode really, though I lost the match so missed on the 2 premium days. I will re-do it anyway.

The machine gun port is easypen, and that dissapointed me. And commander's hatch is easy to hit somehow. Also, grille goes through it frontally with AP, no problem. This one dude 3-clicked me out of the game with no problems by snapping me, while i barely managed to shoot him once.

Regarding armor or mobility, I don't have anything to add. I played solo, I will platoon it a bit tonight i think, so it might be better. What I really hate is the amount of module dmg and crew injuries. Commander is more dead than alive. Frontal fires are common as well, and ammo racks also. So food is a no-go on this tank unfortunately.

 

Generally i think it is a bad tank, although a one-trick pony that does that one trick very good. I would always pick E75 over this one. I don't think the grind will be horrible though, but I'm still unsure will I buy Maus or not.

 

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ST-I is way more playable solo, despite its LFP being made of paper. When ST-I sidescrapes or hull down, Magic Stalinum Armor is activated, Kryptonite does not help, nor Silver Bullets.

VK is just 2-2 through turret front. If I have enough penetration (like Jagdtiger gold rounds) i always 2-2 its UFP, to knock away his engine and set him afire (despite being able to punch cupola or turret face with AP - because Jag is rather soft and VK can hit me back. Better to roast him a bit).

So much about good LFP making a good tank (only better thing on VK than E-75.

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