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O-Ho Appreciation Thread

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So far im serious disliking it, every game but 1 has been worthless, i rly hope it improves...

  1. Gun depression is terrible
  2. The derp gun is crap, on O-I and O-Ni it was good, but now im considering using the 100mm and else food, the gun is rly worthless, 300-350 dmg every 15 sec is perfetic, O Ni could atleast shoot some gold and was fighting lots of tanks it could pen once in a while, but O-ho....???
  3. The armor is very random and quit poor compared to O-Ni or KV4, because it cant sidescrape like a KV4, it encounters many tanks with massive pen, it faces many tanks who spam gold (and a KV4 lols @ HEAT, O-Ho doesnt...) and it has to very visible weakspots, again unlike KV4 or O-ni.

Its obvisous also slow, but thats expected.

My main problem is the dissapointing armor + derpy gun + no gun depression, and i dont understand why WG had to make those mini turrets so massive, its a fake tank anyway and far from OP, so why criple it with ridiculous mini turrets?

edit: Now using the 105mm, its like KV5 gun, with way less bloom and gold ammo as standard, so not that good, but the high dpm allows it to atleast totally dominate as top tier

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So far im serious disliking it, every game but 1 has been worthless, i rly hope it improves...

  1. Gun depression is terrible
  2. The derp gun is crap, on O-I and O-Ni it was good, but now im considering using the 100mm and else food, the gun is rly worthless, 300-350 dmg every 15 sec is perfetic, O Ni could atleast shoot some gold and was fighting lots of tanks it could pen once in a while, but O-ho....???
  3. The armor is very random and quit poor compared to O-Ni or KV4, because it cant sidescrape like a KV4, it encounters many tanks with massive pen, it faces many tanks who spam gold (and a KV4 lols @ HEAT, O-Ho doesnt...) and it has to very visible weakspots, again unlike KV4 or O-ni.

Its obvisous also slow, but thats expected.

My main problem is the dissapointing armor + derpy gun + no gun depression, and i dont understand why WG had to make those mini turrets so massive, its a fake tank anyway and far from OP, so why criple it with ridiculous mini turrets?

edit: Now using the 105mm, its like KV5 gun, with way less bloom and gold ammo as standard, so not that good, but the high dpm allows it to atleast totally dominate as top tier

Derp + AP + Roofs and hull Roofs doesn't work? 

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It can, but you have to be close for it to be reliable, and:

1. The O-Ho is too slow to get close.

2. If the O-Ho gets too close, it doesn't have the gun depression to hit its opponents. Some parts of the front have -3 gun dep, and even the -10 on its sides aren't enough to hit small or medium sized tanks that hug it.

The O-Ho felt much more at home spamming HE with fairly infrequent AP use. The O-Ni was the prime AP spammer, imho.

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It can, but you have to be close for it to be reliable, and:

1. The O-Ho is too slow to get close.

2. If the O-Ho gets too close, it doesn't have the gun depression to hit its opponents. Some parts of the front have -3 gun dep, and even the -10 on its sides aren't enough to hit small or medium sized tanks that hug it.

The O-Ho felt much more at home spamming HE with fairly infrequent AP use. The O-Ni was the prime AP spammer, imho.

So getting it only made sense at first when newbies were scared of them and didn't pen ? Now they are there just to shit on my is6?

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One thing I noticed is that the designers must have spent their entire visual clutter budget for the line on the O-Ho. Every other heavy is just this big green rolling barn without too much detailing aside from the rivets, but the O-Ho, that one's just covered with spare track links all over the place.

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Bought Santazilla back two days ago, after truth won JP heavy "hype". JP HT hype was so strong even with Types that on 5 i thought i was just unlucky when i got bad games mostly. Then saw tomato IS-7 just snap shotting me with APCR, not aiming at all and killing me from full HP, while i only managed to pen him once, which made me finally realize that Type 5 is just not worth keeping at its current state, and sold and moved my crew on O-Ho.

Damn, its even more fun than i thought. Its simply hilarous. It might be my very favorite tank in the game atm (maybe going over even the 113). Its stupid,  huge, has fast firing derp gun that you can snapshot with, it looks simply hilarous, makes credits even without premium account, and can do (sometimes) well even at T10. Perfect..., well, nearly. If it didnt have depression problems above its boobs (lol), it would be literally perfect.

Its hilarous even when solo, but i heard that solo ho ho ho is nothing when compared to platoon of ho ho hos. Cant wait that my friend unlocks one aswell.

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Crap, unreliable, Depression is maddening (if they were going to make tanks out of napkin scrap drawings found in a Japanese basement from ww2, why couldn't they have picked the ones without the goofy front turrets? Why am I still grinding this line at tier 8?

Most mediums and low USSR heavies can face hug you without you being able to shoot down on them. No gold round so only 215 pen for you at all times, plus poor gun characteristics. So I use the derp. 15s reload on the big gun is fun I guess. 

Want to actually use the -10 depression, then you have to expose your side.  Not as bad over the right side of tank, but then you give a flat shoulder.  The goofy armor scheme works both ways- there's no good way to angle it even if opponents don't really know where to shoot.  They just gold up and slice right through you. Or they are tier 9s and Xs who just go right through you anyway. 

I like playing them because they are goofy and different and derpy, but they annihilate my stats, get shat on by arty. The definition of shitty, play for fun tanks. I wish I had just started an alt account just to run my Jap heavies for when I want to give no *cares*. 

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52 minutes ago, Expendable_Lad said:

The goofy armor scheme works both ways- there's no good way to angle it even if opponents don't really know where to shoot. 

 

Angle the front around corners, but be sure not to have your tumors sticking out. Same with the tier9/10.

 

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Switched from derp to 105mm gun and its outright lot better, whole tank feels suddenly decent instead of bad. Derp is good for fun/lol-penetrations but overall 105mm is lot better. As long as player knows how to aim weak spots 215 standard pen is enough against almost anything except rare t10 opponents, even ST-I can be dealt frontally if front lower plate is open. DPM is good at around 2.1k which is same or bit better than equal tier mediums... whereas IS3 for example does almost 400dpm less, considerable difference. And it feels, this tank deals damage fast when it get chance.

Had string of great matches constanly doing 3-4k damage per match, just blowing through enemy teams thanks to good front armor and hitpoints. Still like been said many times, this and other japan tanks are extremely dependend on map and tier. As a top tier feels even little OP, against t10 tanks feels almost useless. And really vulnerable against arties.

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Have been grinding this thing recently, the sensible thing to do would be to run the 105mm gun however I decided to be silly and play with the 15cm derp. Despite knowing that I probably should not be running the derp I just have to much fun with it not to. It is an unusual tank, which has at least made the grind interesting.

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Derp is superior gun actually. You can get reload down to 13,5 seconds if you have evrything and since you can mount vstabs its gun handling is rly good and can snapshot well. 10cm works only when top tier, while derp works actually even on tier 10. Because its slow brick only self-defence against tier 10s (other than troll bounces) is gun, and 10cm is not helpful against t10 HTs, soo...

Imo derp all the way unless you can grind it in stronks. Everywhere i play it though derp is by far more fun. Just dont play too aggressively, spam tracks and you farm solid chunks of damage and assist damage.

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No. Derp is hopeless bad against enemy heavies which are your typical opponents as you move so slowly. For derp to be better choice you would need to do full penetrations like half your shoots, which wont happen. 300 damage with every 13,5sec for derp is really bad dpm, some rare full penetration against enemy soft tanks wont compensate it.

10cm gun has pretty good handling, much better than derp, and it has base 215mm penetrations which means its enough for most opponets except rare T10 heavies and some spesific T9 like E75 and ST-I. Even against those, pen is enough when shooting from side. Outside these specific tanks, 10cm gun is 90% of time better, even when shooting lights/medium opponents as gun handling and shell speed is soo much better so you can actually hit them at medium/long ranges if needed, or hit fast snapshots when they race past some line of fire.

Typical/most common opponent for this tanks is Is3 , which 10cm gun reliable penetrates all time. Simple example is going 1-vs-1 against Is3. With derp you lose it, with 10cm you win it if both players know how to aim.

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73% solopub win rate running the derp. Catastrophic module damage makes up a lot for the low apparent dpm. The derp also allows you to dig out hulldown/sidescraping heavies to get a push going. Sure, it does not farm dpg like the 10.5cm, but it wins battles.

I actually fired a significant number of AP shells against targets like IS-3s and KTs. Delicious overmatch roof makes them very easy to kill in 1v1.

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Can't make it work for me. 60+ WR on all the previous tanks. Great results in the O-NI but this? The shit gun depression because of the boobs that forces you to show your sides + higher pen oponents means it is hard not to die in this POS. 

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On 6/12/2016 at 8:19 AM, sahtila said:

No. Derp is hopeless bad against enemy heavies which are your typical opponents as you move so slowly.

The 10cm has its moments, but the derp is usually better in a T8 match and reliably better in a T10 match, with T9 usually being a tossup. Howitzers are just really good, offering up all sorts of tactics between their damage mechanics, alpha/DPM against light armor, overmatch capability, and module damage. The usual problem with using derp guns is that they have miserable bloom values or aimtime, but in the O-Ho's case both the 10cm and 15cm have the exact same bloom & nearly the same aimtime. Of course, accuracy values factor in here too giving the 10cm effectively better gun handling, but this is the case for all howitzers.

As for the IS-3, I don't really think the 10cm is that much better. It cannot reliably pen an IS-3s front, 215 pen vs 190-225mm of armor is just not going to work all the time. If you low roll on pen, hit the track links on the front, hit the turret face, bounce off the upper side armor, or hit the tracks, you will not be penning the IS-3 in a situation where the 15cm would of dealt 300. If the IS-3 has an elevation advantage, you will never pen it with the 10cm. If the 15cm manages a pen on the sides/roof/rear, it's the better gun regardless. The 10cm might be a bit better overall against the IS-3, but it's hardly a deal breaker.

Putting it more comparatively, by driving the O-Ho with the 10cm you are playing a much slower, larger, lower HP KV-5 with worse gun handling, terrible gun depression issues, thin sides, and a much weaker UFP. In return you get 30 alpha, a smaller & 20mm thicker turret, and no R2D2 weakspot. That's a terrible deal.

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8 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

The 10cm has its moments, but the derp is usually better in a T8 match and reliably better in a T10 match, with T9 usually being a tossup. Howitzers are just really good, offering up all sorts of tactics between their damage mechanics, alpha/DPM against light armor, overmatch capability, and module damage. The usual problem with using derp guns is that they have miserable bloom values or aimtime, but in the O-Ho's case both the 10cm and 15cm have the exact same bloom & nearly the same aimtime. Of course, accuracy values factor in here too giving the 10cm effectively better gun handling, but this is the case for all howitzers.

As for the IS-3, I don't really think the 10cm is that much better. It cannot reliably pen an IS-3s front, 215 pen vs 190-225mm of armor is just not going to work all the time. If you low roll on pen, hit the track links on the front, hit the turret face, bounce off the upper side armor, or hit the tracks, you will not be penning the IS-3 in a situation where the 15cm would of dealt 300. If the IS-3 has an elevation advantage, you will never pen it with the 10cm. If the 15cm manages a pen on the sides/roof/rear, it's the better gun regardless. The 10cm might be a bit better overall against the IS-3, but it's hardly a deal breaker.

Putting it more comparatively, by driving the O-Ho with the 10cm you are playing a much slower, larger, lower HP KV-5 with worse gun handling, terrible gun depression issues, thin sides, and a much weaker UFP. In return you get 30 alpha, a smaller & 20mm thicker turret, and no R2D2 weakspot. That's a terrible deal.

Having same bloom values does not matter, smaller gun has better aim time, 30% better accuracy (which directly affects aim circle and handling) and literally double shell speed. All which combine to lot better handling.

10cm can penetrate is3 just fine if one knows how to aim. Exception is good is3 players who are hull down or pike nose straight towards you and not close. Any angle and pike nose sides or front sprockets are reliable penetrated with 10cm gun especially as you are usually shooting down on them.  Same your other typical opponents like T34, T32, Löwe etc which also have pretty decent front hull but its butter agains 10cm as long as aiming right angle there. Even against t10 like IS7 or E100, that 215 pen is enough from side and does fine 2200dpm before buffs.

Anyway, with RoF difference you can bounce every other shoot with 10cm and your dpm is STILL about same as derp. And honestly, bouncing every other shoot with 215 pen against tier 8 average opponents is not fine. For player who does not how to aim weak spots derp is surely better but not for player who can aim. I started playing this tank with derp but after switching to 10cm my average damage jumped like 500 per game and i started to get 4k+ damage carry games which would not been simply possible with derp because of low dpm it does. Derp is fun lottery but not better for long term.

Hell, that makes me realize that if derp hits do 300 damage in average, derp does absolutely pathetic 1100dpm.... theoretically almost 4 minutes of constant non-stop shooting for good 4k damage game. No wonder derp sucked so much for me. Only hope for good damage is getting some weak low tiers and hitting them for full HE pens.

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There's a pretty big difference between damage farming and winning in the O-Ho. The 10.5cm is a better damage farming weapon; but it doesn't win nearly as much as the derp. Heavy module damage and fear factor make large contributions to pushing, which is not reflected in your dpg stats. The derp also allows you to contribute to a push in far more situations, even against Maus and E5, something you simply cannot do with the 10.5cm.

You don't have to do a ton of damage in a superheavy to win. Pushing in a timely manner also works. (It is for the same reason I have such a high solopub win rate in maus despite absolute potato dpg.)

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Ironically, derp actually racks up damage extremely reliably. It doesnt rack it fast, however, but it racks extremely reliably. DPM is 1,1k most of time which is pretty fucking pathetic indeed, however you also literally do constinently 1,1k dmg every minute considering it almost always does 250 - 400. In two minutes you have already dealt 2,2k dmg, which isnt bad. Its even easier with HP + armor. Ofc with some tanks you would have dealt 3k or 4k, but you need to factor 1). aiming (while you can do more dmg when you aim properly, you can just peek, autoaim, click, and go back to cover at close) 2) penning. Quite often especially at HT vs HT fights effective DPM can drop quite alot thanks to bounces, track damage and aiming at right spot. And armor + HP helps alot with dealing damage.

Not to mention you are still fucking useless against tier 10s and many tier 9s with 10cm. Can you do 150, 200 or even 300 to sidescraping E-100 with 10cm? I want to see that.

Not to mention glorious HE pens are still there.

Derp > 10cm by far, would be even if it 10cm got gold ammo unless that gold would be +260mm pen AP/APCR (which would be unlikely because its WW2 jap gun and those always have horseshit gold ammo with like 20mm more pen. 235 pen wouldnt be any better against e100 and E5 than 215 pen). Like Rexxie said, you are also stuck with gold spamming slow KV-5 that meets tier 10 and has poor side armor if you use 10cm. 10cm is imo only good for hunting ace because at dream matchup it can do damage like fucking crazy, better than derp ever could.

21 hours ago, Rexxie said:

 

As for the IS-3, I don't really think the 10cm is that much better. It cannot reliably pen an IS-3s front, 215 pen vs 190-225mm of armor is just not going to work all the time. If you low roll on pen, hit the track links on the front, hit the turret face, bounce off the upper side armor, or hit the tracks, you will not be penning the IS-3 in a situation where the 15cm would of dealt 300. If the IS-3 has an elevation advantage, you will never pen it with the 10cm. If the 15cm manages a pen on the sides/roof/rear, it's the better gun regardless. The 10cm might be a bit better overall against the IS-3, but it's hardly a deal breaker.

 

I think derp is overall actually better than 10cm against IS-3s. 10cm starts to struggle against IS-3 already at 200 metres, let alone any higher ranges, while derp still does 300 no matter how far away IS-3 is. On other hand at close range derp is still better. Shooting tank often tracks it, so IS-3 cant get into O-Ho's side as easily, you can do 400 - 450 reliably at shooting turret roof (sometimes even pen it) and do massive module damage. If you want to play risky, you can also load AP and do 700 into turret roof. 10cm is better only when it can reliably abuse the DPM. So when IS-3 isnt far away, when it isnt hulldowning, sidescraping, RNG doesnt fuck you etc. At close you can pen the roof or heavily damage it, at longer range you do quaraanted damage. Overall, the derp is better.

10cm is better at picking up multiple targets, though, and overall better against non-paper lowtiers. Again, like i said, only real reason to use 10cm imo is when you desperately want ace (the tanks is quite easy to ace imo even with derp especially if you get few HE pens) since its little easier than with derp at dream matchup.

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On 27.6.2016 at 7:10 PM, Hally said:

There's a pretty big difference between damage farming and winning in the O-Ho. The 10.5cm is a better damage farming weapon; but it doesn't win nearly as much as the derp. Heavy module damage and fear factor make large contributions to pushing, which is not reflected in your dpg stats. The derp also allows you to contribute to a push in far more situations, even against Maus and E5, something you simply cannot do with the 10.5cm.

You don't have to a ton of damage in a superheavy to win. Pushing in a timely manner also works. (It is for the same reason I have such a high solopub win rate in maus despite absolute potato dpg.)

Your job as heavy tank is going against enemy heavy tanks/push through enemy team. Your typical opponents are not T10, they are T7-T9 where 215 pen is perfectly fine even frontally outside few special cases.

You can do it with ~1100 pathetic dpm and some random, usually irrevelant module damage and get stuck for almost 2 minutes of non-stop firing to kill single enemy equal tier heavy (remember average game length in WoT is like 4-5 mins total). Or you can take 10cm gun, aim properly and do damage literally double as fast, and kill two enemy heavies in same time.  And pushing is exactly where 10cm shines. You push close to enemy heavies, deal 2.2k dpm (before food etc) shooting down to their front armor/turret tops while they cannot answer with their low dpm heavies, O-Ho has very good dpm for its tier. Remember why everyone fits Rammer in almost every tank: Dpm is king. DPM is also winrate as told by statistics. Also surprisingly, 10cm gun has good enough handling that close range its possible to snapshot front sprockets to keep enemy in place.

Played couple dozen more games with derp to be sure and it still failed. Outright lost couple games simply because of low dpm of derp, enemies could just rush over me as they see derp and know it has long reload and low damage. In one game derp was good, surprisingly it was close range fight agaisnt enemy mediums in hull down positions. Even that fight which I though was very good, was only 2.1k damage and game was won by JpantherII sitting behind me doing real damage (4k). Module damage on opponents was also irrevelant, some commanders and tracks only despite getting like 10 hits on enemy mediums. Value of derp in that situation was finishing low health oppoents hull down. Those constant 100-300 damage hits just do not carry. This story happens everytime I thing I did well in derp... lot of hits, but fuck all total damage and someone else won fight for me.

 

On 27.6.2016 at 9:32 PM, leggasiini said:

I think derp is overall actually better than 10cm against IS-3s. 10cm starts to struggle against IS-3 already at 200 metres, let alone any higher ranges, while derp still does 300 no matter how far away IS-3 is. On other hand at close range derp is still better. Shooting tank often tracks it, so IS-3 cant get into O-Ho's side as easily, you can do 400 - 450 reliably at shooting turret roof (sometimes even pen it) and do massive module damage. If you want to play risky, you can also load AP and do 700 into turret roof. 10cm is better only when it can reliably abuse the DPM. So when IS-3 isnt far away, when it isnt hulldowning, sidescraping, RNG doesnt fuck you etc. At close you can pen the roof or heavily damage it, at longer range you do quaraanted damage. Overall, the derp is better.

10cm is better at picking up multiple targets, though, and overall better against non-paper lowtiers. Again, like i said, only real reason to use 10cm imo is when you desperately want ace (the tanks is quite easy to ace imo even with derp especially if you get few HE pens) since its little easier than with derp at dream matchup.

Typical hit against heavy front turret armor is like 200, not 300. See enemy heavy tank through city arcs' so had to shoot on tracks? 150 damage...

You wont even hit moving targets with derp any longer range, 0,55 accuracy, 500m/sec shell speed. Object 268 has 760m/sec and 0.33 and you say its like worst t10 tank which does not hit anything? 10cm gun can snipe and penetrate tier 10 tanks sides 300m away just fine. Just had yesterday tier 10 game in prohkorova where I racked 2k damage just by shooting two enemy t110e5 on hill. Ok 2k damage is pretty weak but still fine for worst possible map and almost every opponent being higher tier. With derp it would not been even 1k damage as even hitting stand still tank that range is luck with it, not to mention target moving back and forth. That is another thing btw, if going against t10 tanks I want 10cm gun as it can shoot effectively farther, tried also using derp closer range againt heavies but its suicide. This tank is too slow to try hit between enemy reloads and they(t10 opponents) kill you in 3 hits.

 

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268 has absolutely garbage gun arc though, while O-Ho has turret. It obviously snipes stationary targets much better than O-Ho but anything that moves...

Everyone has their own opinion, i guess. Most of us use derp and think its better. If you just happen to like 10cm more and do better with it, guess arguing is useless. I personally do much better with derp than with 10cm and have much more fun with it.

In the end its probably more like arguing which color is better. Majority happen to like one color more than the other, but it doesnt stop someone liking that less-liked color.

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