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Siimcy

Preliminary "Arty Balance"

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WHY... I like how arty i currently, only shit players get hit by it really.

arty might actually be usefull against me now since I like to chai snipe. Well, time to quit again I guess.

Edited by MrsmilieyfaceC8
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If (and that's a big if) it's anything like AW's setup of faster firing, better accuracy, the one shots and bullshit RNG hits will be gone, the only serious damage up and beyond 100-200 will be against lightly armoured tanks/open topped SPGs. Combined with a notification of being targeted by arty would in of itself then remove a lot of the anger the class evokes. Well, unless that debuffing mechanic proves to be where WG fails in balancing once again.

Although considering how well that Havok introduction went, I can see WG humming and hawing over this for a few years before getting anywhere near "testing" phase.

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This makes me nervous/sad as someone who enjoys my light tanks a lot. If I can be 100% reliably fucking rekt by an arty across the map dropping an illumination round on one of the 2 viable bushes left on any given map because WG has agent orange'd the rest out of existence, It's going to be hard to keep telling myself that I enjoy light tanks.

 

At least now there's a chance they don't fully kill my tank if they blindfire it, sometimes I get to run away with 100 hp or something.

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More info is needed on the ability to assist in lighting tanks, if it's a reduction to the camo in that given area fine, if actually lights the tanks then that seems really fucked. Although you could make it work that way so long as artillery can only do that on targets that are a certain distance away.

How I would do it is nerf artillery alpha, scrap the idea of tank crew reduction, increase fire rate in parallel to alpha reduction, allow them to light small areas of the map but only if it's a long distance away (past render range) and allow increased accuracy the further away they shoot. This way they can't self light any tank that is in the middle of the map or so, but they can light base camping TDs and hit them reliably. This would hopefully encourage them to hit camping tanks and finally stop punishing aggression.

 

So example like this:

These values should be refined and tested but for now lets just say past the red line the SPG in K1 could light past the red line and gains small accuracy the further from that line it shoots. (even though highway is a bad example because it's a shit map tbh where you can't use large portions of it). It would also mean it can light enemy SPG's to counter battery more effectively.

DNLoSzM.jpg

Edited by Anfield
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WG will screw the rebalance as always. Too many variables. They can't balance a tank. Hell they didn't introduce Mauschen yet introduce a whole line of them. Given that most of them don't play (Storm, don't know about Serb, balance guys probably too) I expect it either making arty horrible for the people who play them (fingers crossed) or who are hit by them (even more)

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Well, I can already imagine enemy arty just shooting flares at me all game

not totally sure how I feel about that

oh one hand, yay I wont be taking damage from these retards

on the other, any sneaky sneaking I do is completely pointless

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The problem is not numbers, or accuracy, or reload, or "debuffs" or any of that. 

Simply, the class does not work because it ignores 75% of the games maneuver, vision and Line of Sight mechanics.

Do these things they are talking about and bad players will still drop RNG biscuits on you from near complete safety.  Not really sure why random giant alpha strikes are worse than faster more accurate smaller strikes that also debuff you.  One can be avoided with RNG luck, the other is just going to harass you to death easily.  Whole class turned into Fv 304s?  No way.

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No matter what they do, some shitter is still going to have an inordinate amount of influence on my ability to fight compared to what he could accomplish in any other tank, and I'm not normally going to be able to do anything to combat him, besides playing like a passive bitch.

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I think the illumation shells would be fun to watch if WG made them look like an comet, but it almost sounds useless if it doesn't have an faster reload and is harmless. But I'm onboard with the debuff (Arty-exclusive Shellshock perk anyone?)

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Since I am probably one of the few people who plays AW a lot, I think I can provide some insight to how this could look like in WoT and how things currently look in AW.

First of all, the illumination round.
Currently in AW, arty can nearly instantly switch to their ILL round even after they've finished loading the main round. There's a 2-3s delay before the round swaps, but that's nothing compared to having to reload a whole new shell instead. Unless WG implements instant round switching like AW has, I seriously doubt ILL rounds will be any good.
As for how they work: the ILL round lasts ~7 seconds and has an effective spotting range of around 30m or so in a circle. In theory you can shoot only ILL rounds if you want as long as you have shells left (they have pretty low ammo caps, around 8 shells if I'm not mistaken.)

The artillery warning in AW works great for what it is. Since arty shells travel VERY slowly, far slower than in WoT, you have plenty of time to react unless the arty in question is really close to you. Like 100-200m close.
General shell travel time is around 3-7 seconds and you get the artillery warning immediately after it is fired. You get the warning if you are in the blast radius of the shell's predicted traveling path.
In practice this means if an SPG aims directly at you, you have about 3 seconds to move away from the center of the splash. Radius falloff is what you'd expect and if you're still at the very edge of arty's blast radius it generally never deals more than 100 damage.
Also, I might add that artillery themselves do not get artillery warnings. They are as blind as everyone in WoT is.

As for the other changes, I really don't think WG will do this right even though it is theoretically a step in the right direction. A rework is not good enough, they need to scrap artillery as a concept and start over. You can't just lower their damage and increase their rate of fire and be done with it.
The main reason I'm saying this is because AW has a built-in system for artillery counter-battery. When an SPG fires once, enemy SPGs get a ping on the map for their general location. When they fire again, they get a more precise location. After the third shot, the SPG is automatically spotted for the whole enemy team.
The only way to avoid this is by moving a lot and by moving frequently. From what I've seen, you need to move at least 100-200m to reset the "spot counter" or else you'll be treated as if you're standing still.
What this does is create a big arty vs. arty minigame for them to play. If they fire at all they get a chance at landing a shot at them, and if the enemy arty dies then that means you can unleash hell on the enemy team without worrying about being hit back by enemy arty.
Most of the battle is spent relocating and trying to get a shot at enemy arty rather than trying to splash enemy tanks. This is absolutely excellent at still giving arty players a chance to still play the game but effectively be forced to play by different rules unless they wanna get their shit pushed in.

Anyway, since WoT has none of these systems in place, I seriously doubt this will work. If anything, it will only make the problem worse. Think of the worst case scenario.
If this rebalance comes through, you'll suddenly have artillery spotting whole lemming trains and their WN8 would SKYROCKET as a result; remember how few spots SPGs have? (The WN8 isn't the primary concern here by the way, it just came to me after I finished writing the first part.)
Without an SPG counter-battery minigame, arty would also be free to continue their business as usual. They lose some alpha but gain some rate of fire and accuracy. This will only really work in their favor unless they nerf shell velocity to AW levels and make the incoming artillery warning useful.

As for the "suppressing effect" that we know nothing about, all I can say is... god have mercy on us all.

Edit: I forgot to mention some things.
Whenever arty fires a smoke (yes, they have those too) or ILL round, it's marked on the minimap for all tanks on both teams. If an enemy SPG fires one of these rounds, a red circle appears in the area it's covering. If an ally SPG fires one, it's a blue circle.
There are autoloading SPGs but they are capped at 3 rounds per salvo. They aren't at all as OP as you'd think. Remember the "fire and you get marked by enemy arty" thing? If it shoots all 3 shells ASAP, it will get instantly revealed and your team's arty can fire back without any fear of retaliation.
Because modules have ridiculous amounts of HP at the moment, being tracked, lit on fire, or having your ammo rack damaged by arty is pretty rare, which is especially strange considering the commanders they get both have a 20% module damage increase skill AND a loader skill increases this by another 20%!

Even tier 6 SPGs have more HP than tier 10 ones in WoT. I think they start out with ~600 HP at tier 6 and end up with ~1k HP at tier 8. Though sadly (for arty players trying to play to the best of their abilities) this doesn't make much of a difference. HEAT shells do more damage and almost all autocannons deal a minimum of 2k damage per salvo, so the increased HP doesn't make them much better in that regard. Someone mentioned WoT arty having more health meant they could potentially get closer, and since WoT doesn't really have high tier autocannons and HEAT doesn't deal more damage, more HP would at least make sense here.

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Why can't WarGaming add an audible sound (like the howitzer firing and everyone in a 800m range can hear it) is beyond me. I would say add in the iconic whistling sound, but what's the point?

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I like that WarGaming is not going to just copy mechanics from AW. I think a suppression effect, if correctly implemented, can give the game a whole new level of complexity. This could make arty even more viable in competitive play. For example, a camp can be more easily broken via mass suppression right before the attacking party pushes in. My opinion on how tanks become suppressed: Lower rate of fire. A 10-20% decrease in DPM can really help dig out players in overpowered positions, because the suppression incentivizes players to push, knowing that they would take less damage while the enemy is suppressed. I agree with the suggestion that arty's illumination shell should only decrease camo values. This encourages teamplay while retaining the usefulness of light tanks.

Overall, the artillery class, if balanced correctly, will become a real support class. Higher accuracy and more uses mean a higher skill cap for arty players. I'm excited.

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People think arty is bad now---imagine being focused and debuffed by rapid firing, accurate machines for an entire game. As it is now, even if a high tier arty is focusing you, you have options to make him less likely to hit (also taking into consideration the dice roll he is taking in the first place). With the proposed system you have far fewer options to avoid the debuff. The salt about arty focus will be unreal. Removing ingame stats would mitigate the butthurt.

they could uhh.... just remove arty

They really can't though. First you have to consider all the man hours and development resources spent on arty. That aside, how would they reimburse customers? You are looking at some people receiving millions of free exp. It would be a huge (financial) mistake for WG.

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Some of the stuff people are suggesting is what we used to have. Arty had a lower ROF and a lower alpha and higher accuracy. the arty usta do a bit of damage and wreck havoc on modules. This included the tracks the fuel tank and the ammo rack. Arty could look over the enemy base and spot the enemy arty shells when they shot. CB was effective.

They changed it because people didn't like arty tracking them or damaging the engine multiple times, then shooting them repeatedly until they were down to 1/2 their damage or the thing caught fire or the ammo rack exploded. They increased the reload time and nerfed the accuracy. They crushed the pen for standard shells. They increased the alpha figuring that if an arty somehow managed to hit something and pen it that it could do some major damage and they give the target 2:00 to move. They drastically increased the cost of ammunition.

This made the arty too expensive to run and no fun to play because you're paying 2000 silver per shell and not hitting anything, even when fully aimed at a stationary target. 2:00 later you pay another 2g silver to watch the shell bounce off the side of a fuel tank. Then along comes this scout with an auto-loader to completely wreck your day on repair costs. The changes also made the arty useless in clan wars and skirmishes and tournaments of any kind.   

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#REMOVE_ARTY_FROM_THE_GAME

 

Arta with top down/battle assistant view can't be balanced. Ever. If wg changed all arties to be more bert/aw like you'll just get spammed to death, your crew will be pretty much useless (because wg can't balance things and I'm pretty sure debuffs will stack) and spotted with no one within render range. Three-clicker tier 10 toon with 10-15 seconds reload, 5-7-900 alpha focusing on a single target with improved accuracy to be less rng-dependant? No, thx. I was focused by 3-bert toon once, got tracked behind the building, instead of going back to garage I just watched my tenk getting spammed to death, what a waste of time.

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There is no way to balance arty in wot.  #Removeit or gtfo.

Can't really care about getting hit by arty anymore, either u get shrekt or u don't. The mighty elite playing this class shall decide.
I deal with cancer irl, as I smoke and do whatever so I might as well do it in this game.

:drunk: :popcorn: :music: :disco: to those who don't click, if they see me .. there are enuff other brain-afk targets aren't there :unicum:

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The thing is if you remove it totaly you have to remove some maps from CW. Without arty it is imposible to crack some camperfag tactics on Ruinberg or Mountain Pass.

 

Well, we do have the cancer airstrike/artillery fire now though, if they're grouped up in a nice camp it should be doable to get them real good with some love from above.

 

Oh also, ruinberg campfest can easily be broken with enough heavily armored tanks and enough small tanks to hide behind them. I made a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEV__Eu9GA

 

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Why you all scream ``all class like bert``, bert is not shit because of rof, but because of stupid shell arc, allowing it to shoot over almost any building, give bad the shell arc of 261, and its worst arty of the game....

WG also wont increase the dmg potential of arty, if they lower alpha and buff rpm / acc, they wont deal more dmg, especially if they can also stun and spot stuff, assuming a tier 10 arty has a dmg potential of say 3500, they will nerf it to 2500 (if not worse)....

Arty gains afterall the option to stun and spot + the arty view thing, its only logical loose much more alpha dmg as they gain back in rof and accuracy....

Think of a GW type E beiing as strong as the tier 8 lorraine arty in terms of dmg

And finally, they will never ever give them bert like reload, at best ``realistic reload speed``, like 20 sec reload for a 203mm gun, which deals 500 dmg on direct hit, sure, due to improved accuracy and still huge splash range, they will always deal dmg, but not that much (200 splash and -25% crew reduction or whatever)

ps: i also assume WG will remove all high penetration shells of arty, this also reduces arty crap a lot, i also have a small flinter of hope they remove the ability of HE to penetrate tanks, it really doesnt sound bad so far, its just up to the implementation...

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I think the illumation shells would be fun to watch if WG made them look like an comet, but it almost sounds useless if it doesn't have an faster reload and is harmless. But I'm onboard with the debuff (Arty-exclusive Shellshock perk anyone?)

Wat?

nokFFvB.png

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