Jump to content
Rexxie

Padding

Recommended Posts

First off, I'm going to invoke the usual holywater here and say: "I know.". I know not everyone pads, I know not everyone cares if they pad, I know that there's nothing against padding, and I know padding doesn't mean you aren't a great player. This isn't a topic to call people out, it's just to spark a little discussion on the topic.

So, padding is a thing. A big thing. Something we don't really talk about, at least not as much as we could. Here's a few little random, not-very-well-formulated observations about wotlabs, gotten from looking up tank composition lists from various, mostly-randomly-selected purples' recently played (last 500-1000) games:

  • The ratio of padded unicums (purple or dark purple) to nonpadded unicums is about 1 to 1. Half pad hard. Half don't. A small few are somewhere inbetween and cancel out any padding they do with some horrible stuff like arty.
  • The ratio of padded superunicums to nonpadded superunicums is much worse. Around two-thirds pad, and those that don't are usually in the lower WN8s of the superunicum tier.
  • Almost every single "top" player, the purple of the purple, pad to hell and back. They are almost universally the most padded players in the game, and play practically 0 tanks that would be considered "bad" for results.
  • These are just tank comp (WN8) observations. If you could look up platoon (WR) data, these numbers would probably start to look horrific.

So, I'm starting to wonder if this padding culture on wotlabs (maybe even the game in general?) is beginning to become too much. I think many opinions on how good tanks are, how to perform well, etc. are becoming more and more influenced by padding as it becomes more of a popular sport. This is a problem to me because people rely on others' opinion quite often around here, and once those start to drift from reality, theirs does too. On a forum where your stats actually matter, how you get those stats might be relevant.

So, what do you think? Is this a problem? Does this even matter? Perhaps this isn't a growing problem?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's a growing problem.  But it is inevitable when an external metric is invented and that metric becomes important.  

The issue of advice on this forum drifting due to consideration of padding ability seems legit, although I'm not sure those I typically listen to are skewed much in that direction.  But, then, I have always tended to listen to advice that comes with analysis, and to analysis that focuses upon the actual fighting strengths and weaknesses of the tanks.  So, although I do think the focus on the colors is a problem, and particularly in game through XVM, I'm not sure it's a particular additional problem here on Wotlabs.  But I'm open to arguments.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, once the stats hit a certain (arbitrary) point, they become meaningless.  I rarely see much skill difference between 3-4-5k.  At that point, it mostly comes down to vehicle selection.  Same with win rates.  Once it passes 65, I feel it's more vehicle/platoon selection than winning ability.  

Regardless, people who are padded to hell and back are almost certainly great players, even without the padding.  If someone is a top 1% player, most of the game's population can learn from them.  People aren't going to learn much more from a top 0.1%er, nor are there that many people who could learn from the dark purp but not the regular purp.  

So no, I don't think it's an issue.  Padding is a side effect of stat collection.  It really only applies to a small segment of the community, and the game as a whole.  Granted, it's a segment that's over-represented here... I still don't see it as an issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Until a metric comes along which is infallible, there will be padding. I can maintain 2.7-2.9k WN8 without much thought, pushing above requires padding or some seriously concentrated effort. To go above, I have to play while on a clear mind, solo, and play certain tanks. I can play around 3k Wn8 while concentrating with all of my tanks, pushing above that: No. Tank selection only will do so right now

On WOTLabs, we do seem to tend to keep the obvious padding in check as far as what is said in font. I dont believe its a problem, nor does it really matter. As Crab and others have mentioned: Beyond 2600 WN8, it scales horribly and means nothing. Play too much of 1 tank, it scales horribly and means nothing. Play 'padding' tanks, and its going to be shown pretty quickly. Club seals, and that'll show up as well. On a scale of 1-10 of how much I think it's an issue on WOTlabs in particular, probably a solid 3.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to lay the ground rules, so to speak: what precisely do you define as padding? I mean, I generally agree with your assessment, though I haven't looked deeply enough to comment on the numbers are ratios you mentioned.

Also, I hope you didn't include me in your sample size! I platoon like crazy, but then again, I play4phun.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I don't see this as a huge problem, more like a growing tendency. Personally I pad, I'm asking for help, for platoon, and for every option I can raise my stats but I think it's personal, mostly because I'm a maximalist and bad stats annoys me, even if I know, it's just a game. On the other hand, I see the opportunity to develop to a higher level of gameplay thus making some money out of it if I become a better player. Streaming, ESL, cups, etc.

For me, it feels like I can have fun and make some money (real or virtual) while playing with friends, but for this, I have to become a better player. Also, I love to teach (irl it's one of my professions) and this has also had a huge impact on my gameplay and how I handle community and ranking.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Padding: Certain tanks with full prem spam such as the E50, T54/RU meds, light tanks, etc.

WR is less of an issue for padding purposes here IMO. Its a fun game while platooning, therefore I platoon a lot

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to lay the ground rules, so to speak: what precisely do you define as padding? I mean, I generally agree with your assessment, though I haven't looked deeply enough to comment on the numbers are ratios you mentioned.

Also, I hope you didn't include me in your sample size! I platoon like crazy, but then again, I play4phun.

The obvious stuff, you'll have to trust me here in that my definition of "what tanks are padding" is pretty reasonable, its mostly what Marine just mentioned. I didnt include any questionable stuff.

Since I'm only looking at tank comp, any platoon padding you might do doesn't fit in here. I did include you in my sample though, I remember repeating "please not sr360 too" while your tank comp list loaded. You are in the nonpadded half :)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The obvious stuff, you'll have to trust me here in that my definition of "what tanks are padding" is pretty reasonable, its mostly what Marine just mentioned.

Since I'm only looking at tank comp, any platoon padding you might do doesn't fit in here. I did include you in my sample size though, I remember repeating "please not sr360 too" while your tank comp list loaded. You are in the nonpadded half :)

 

That's what I thought-- basically tanks with low expected WN8.

I will acknowledge, though, that my recents are horribly inflated by the O-I Experimental, which has yet to have its WN8 values finalized. I expect a drop back towards 2400-ish once that adjustment happens. My tank list is mostly determined by what I am grinding + missions. Hence the proliferation of tier 6s (T-34-85, SU-100, M44, KV-2, Hellcat are my mission grinders).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does it matter? Let people play the game in the way they have fun and stop judging.

People do judge you based off your stats.  Many people won't admit it, but that unfortunately is the way it is.

Edited by Tashen
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's my real problem here. We all are judging each other from their stats. I get that the normal vanilla answer to this problem is "wn8 doesnt matter!", and while that may be true, the sad reality is that your stats matter a lot on this forum. If you pay some attention to users of different skill levels, you'll see that people are less likely to trust those with lower stats, more likely to argue with them, etc. It's a stat based forum, which is mostly why I take issue with padding at all. I don't have much of a problem with padding as a way of playing the game, that isn't an issue that spreads.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be pretty hard not to "pad" to be honest.

With the exceptions of TDs and SPGs, you either pad winrate because the tank over performs (IS6), or you pad wn8, because you do exceedingly well in an underperforming tank(Wz132/Is8/PTA/Lorraine/etc).

Some tanks can excel at both I.E E50, but most tanks falls within the category above.

Edited by CarbonWard
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's also possible that those with high WR/WN8 get their kicks from winning and doing well (rather than just epeen). I don't play shit boats in Warships because I only really enjoy online games when I'm performing well and winning (which is one of the reasons I'm growing to severely dislike AW's PVP, I just don't play it well). The E50 with sprem spam is notorious for padding because of the low expected... but it also is a carry-hard stomp machine that rules the T9 meta. So yeah, how do you differentiate between someone who wants to stomp face all the time and those who want to inflate numbers? Is there a way to differentiate? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

best way to not care bout this shiet?

 

be #1

#losetogarbadheadtoheadhuehuewelcometo#2

_____________________________________________

I like how AW stats are private.  Hopefully this eliminates XVM abuse and tones down the incentive to reroll/pad quite so much.  While I'm sure clans will require screens of your dpg and shit, hopefully it won't get as bad as wot was.

Also, welcome to Garbad2012, rexxie.  Be careful about the bulbans, this kind of shit makes them VERY angry.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's also possible that those with high WR/WN8 get their kicks from winning and doing well (rather than just epeen). I don't play shit boats in Warships because I only really enjoy online games when I'm performing well and winning (which is one of the reasons I'm growing to severely dislike AW's PVP, I just don't play it well). The E50 with sprem spam is notorious for padding because of the low expected... but it also is a carry-hard stomp machine that rules the T9 meta. So yeah, how do you differentiate between someone who wants to stomp face all the time and those who want to inflate numbers? Is there a way to differentiate? 

There's no way to differentiate. In this case, where we're more looking at how these players look from the outside, it doesn't really matter. Whether you're padding for the stats or padding inadvertently because those tanks are more fun, the result is the same here. You have such and such stats, your opinion on tanks have such and such amount of weight, and that weight is almost certainly going to be inflated. There may be a difference morally, but that's about all.

Also, welcome to Garbad2012, rexxie.  Be careful about the bulbans, this kind of shit makes them VERY angry.

I couldn't decide whether to call this topic "padding" or "hand me a hardhat, please" while typing it up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's my real problem here. We all are judging each other from their stats. I get that the normal vanilla answer to this problem is "wn8 doesnt matter!", and while that may be true, the sad reality is that your stats matter a lot on this forum. If you pay some attention to users of different skill levels, you'll see that people are less likely to trust those with lower stats, more likely to argue with them, etc. It's a stat based forum, which is mostly why I take issue with padding at all. I don't have much of a problem with padding as a way of playing the game, that isn't an issue that spreads.

I think that only certain tanks with low expected wn8s are considered good padding tanks, so why not have something similar to the recent and overall WN8 & w/r that can tell on a quick glance "That player plays a crap ton of (Insert stat pad tank here)" or say what the most number of battles or the highest WN8 in a tank is.

My opinion is the middle ground I guess. I think that it reflects badly on players who play only select tanks becuase of stats, but I also find that it might be basis if I liked a tank and did well in that for it to be called padding.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no way to differentiate. In this case, where we're more looking at how these players look from the outside, it doesn't really matter, either. Whether you're padding for the stats or padding inadvertently because those tanks are more fun, the result is the same here. You have such and such stats, your opinion on tanks have such and such amount of weight, and that weight is almost certainly going to be inflated. There may be a difference morally, but that's about all.

I couldn't decide whether to call this topic "padding" or "hand me a hardhat, please" while typing it up.

So, the million dollar question. Are you a padder? I mean, I know you aren't, but by your own criteria you fit the glove right?

Edited by OnboardG1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no way to differentiate. In this case, where we're more looking at how these players look from the outside, it doesn't really matter. Whether you're padding for the stats or padding inadvertently because those tanks are more fun, the result is the same here. You have such and such stats, your opinion on tanks have such and such amount of weight, and that weight is almost certainly going to be inflated. There may be a difference morally, but that's about all.

I couldn't decide whether to call this topic "padding" or "hand me a hardhat, please" while typing it up.

I think your sig confuses them, tbh.  They can't decide if they should fuck or fight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are confused on what Padding/reroll actually means without objectively viewing the player itself.

 

Lets say Yato, 6000 games in a T62A, with 4.1k dpg, objectively speaking, hes better than me, despite being a "padder", because I can't hit as high as a number if i tried, and i doubt there are many people who can.

Now lets say some guy with 500 battles in 62A with 2.8k dpg, it doesn't matter if hes trying to pad, or if he rerolled, 2.8k is objectively not impressive.

 

I always ask myself when judging a player "Can I do what he did if I tried?"

The answer would determine how i view the person as a player, but of course, stats or not, it doesn't really define the person as a person.

Edited by CarbonWard
Link to post
Share on other sites

So, the million dollar question. Are you a padder? I mean, I know you aren't, but by your own criteria you fit the glove right?

I didn't include myself, I don't think its possible to judge yourself without massive amounts of bias. Here's my 1k vs lunas, who I'm going to call out here only because I think Luna is pretty open (and hopefully chill) about it:

Rexxie

Nightmare_Luna

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's my real problem here. We all are judging each other from their stats. I get that the normal vanilla answer to this problem is "wn8 doesnt matter!", and while that may be true, the sad reality is that your stats matter a lot on this forum. If you pay some attention to users of different skill levels, you'll see that people are less likely to trust those with lower stats, more likely to argue with them, etc. It's a stat based forum, which is mostly why I take issue with padding at all. I don't have much of a problem with padding as a way of playing the game, that isn't an issue that spreads.

judging by stats vs stat-padding are two different issues. I agree that the judgement of stats tends to skew the opinion of the quality of content. But, padding then isnt the issue you have an issue with

And dammit Rexxie... you have barely more tanks than I for the last 1k battles :( (to be fair though, my 1k interval only has 789 battles)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't include myself, I don't think its possible to judge yourself without massive amounts of bias. Here's my 1k vs lunas, who I'm going to call out here only because I think Luna is pretty open (and hopefully chill) about it:

Rexxie

Nightmare_Luna

I can't judge your recents either, because your recents are dominated by the Japanese heavies, which currently hold only placeholder values!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...