German Cruisers Discussion

[Rodrigopine 184]

Been playing the Roon a bit lately and one common thing I've noticed is a lot of DDs don't seem to have the proper respect for it's guns. DDs seem to know about the Mogami and Chapayev when I'm driving those and will pretty much flee once they spot me in those ships. But in the Roon I've had a lot of DDs in a brief period of time try to yolo me like I'm a BB and they just get wrecked.

Overall it's a pretty enjoyable ship. I like it a lot better than the Hipper. Probably the only problem driving the ship isn't the ship itself but the high tier meta is 'ugh' sometimes. Too passive, too static. I know, dead horse and all but I can't help but give it a whack every now and then.

[Jarkorsis 92]

I prefer the Roon to the Hindenburg. It has slightly better stealth and maneuverability. 

 

Some Atago drivers don't respect it either. 5 cits later they have been sunk. It is a good overal ship.

[Pocktio 730]

I finally had a good Hipper game.

Top tier, found an AFK Mogami broadside and a tier 6 CV got a hard on for trying to kill me. 

If only every game could be so kind.

[Birkovic 135]

There is this German cruiser event on EU, so I though "Hey, let's be a shitter and play the event ship". Ground the Karlsruhe and I'm half way through the Königsberg. The latter is actually very good. The HE is nice and the AP is powerfull - and those 360* rear turrets nom nom nom!! My god those ships have low expected values. I feel dirty.

 

Königsberg

5

CA/CL

Germany

6

66.67%

69,206

1,933

3.8

2.5

0.3

33%

39%

0%

2,198

[Rodrigopine 184]

56 minutes ago, Birkovic said:

There is this German cruiser event on EU, so I though "Hey, let's be a shitter and play the event ship". Ground the Karlsruhe and I'm half way through the Königsberg. The latter is actually very good. The HE is nice and the AP is powerfull - and those 360* rear turrets nom nom nom!! My god those ships have low expected values. I feel dirty.

 

Königsberg

5

CA/CL

Germany

6

66.67%

69,206

1,933

3.8

2.5

0.3

33%

39%

0%

2,198

Don't worry, you still have the shittiest ship in the line, the Hipper to look forward to.

 

[TouchFluffyTail 596]

He's left the Kolberg long behind. The Hipper is a fairly good cruiser.

[cheereereerios 44]

On 2/7/2017 at 10:08 AM, Mesrith said:

I guess I just consider "general map awareness" to be good enough to not require 4 valuable points on Radio Location for a ship that already has excellent concealment like the Shimakaze.  Do you not usually know where enemy destroyers are within the first few minutes anyway?

A few times a day at least, I can nail the opposite DD in the cap/near the cap just using experience AND rpf. Let's me know which angle they are coming from, what kind of speed they are doing...

It does require them to be careless in the cap a bit, but there are plenty of those out there. (IE I usually get myself pointed out of the cap zone and idling along just under 1/4 speed). It works well on various DD's as well. Fletcher with torps loaded as you arrive at the cap? Launch em and have em reloaded by the time anyone is spotted. Lol Yang with slow loading torps and needing all the help it can get in damage dept? A quick red DD delete fits the bill.

[Pocktio 730]

The Hipper will whelm you to death. It's just so painfully mediocre, there is literally nothing another cruiser can't do better.

Unless you count slightly above average HP and the ability to "bully" t7 BBs by having enough front armour to not get overmatched by their calibre of guns. Cos, you know, isolated fights against t7 BBs are so common in a t8 Cruiser....

I was fucked off by WG EU's new tactic of stopping silver ship discounts at tier 7 on their weekend events. I unlocked the Roon, would have been perfectly timed with a nice discount but noooo.

[Madner Kami 405]

Hipper needs either a substantial RoF-buff or a survivability-buff via repair party. Logically, this needs to extend to Prinz Eugen and it stands to reason that Yorck should get a similar treatment. They are good ships in theory, but getting good results from them is really a hard and arduous task. I do enjoy playing them precisely because they are not your everyday 24/7 HE-spammer, but leveraging wins with them, is way too hard.

Alternatively, WG could toy with increasing the AP normalization.

[Birkovic 135]

I always get kind of sad when reading about that grind. 

The Hipper is one of those class' with a real history, which you wish for to be fun to play.

[Rodrigopine 184]

5 hours ago, Birkovic said:

I always get kind of sad when reading about that grind. 

The Hipper is one of those class' with a real history, which you wish for to be fun to play.

Yeah, it's sad that a ship with this level of historical significance is so mediocre. And I agree with Madner Kami that the ship needs some kind of buff to lift it from mediocrity. Personally I like the idea of a RoF buff because 'feeling-wise' the shells take forever to reload and you really need a more crisp reload to take advantage of punishing ships.

[bathoz 107]

So, bizarre thing. I've been playing a lot of Hipper right now – throwing flags and camo at it so I can get out of it and into the Roon (more tier 9s, more ships to play in divisions with clan).

And... I kinda like it. Part of that is masochism. It is hard to play, or at least hard to succeed in. But at the same time, it has a lot of fiddly tools and decisions to make at all times, which I like. (The constant shifting between AP and HE almost makes me want to take expert loader... almost). When you do it well, it can do great work, but like so many tier 8 cruisers, when you end up in that big tier X game on Mountain Range, it feels like there's not a whole lot you can do.

It's not OP – but after two or three rounds of buffs – it's not awful. And it feels very weird to bully Bismarcks that can't pen you.

That said, at the moment, if you asked me which of my two tier 8 premiums cruisers I would take out to grind credits in (for fun), I'd probably go out in the Eugen over the Atago. Which is insane.

[Madner Kami 405]

9 hours ago, bathoz said:

That said, at the moment, if you asked me which of my two tier 8 premiums cruisers I would take out to grind credits in (for fun), I'd probably go out in the Eugen over the Atago. Which is insane.

At this point, I haven't played Eugen since I got into Yorck and I would expect my Eugen-stats to be close to my Hipper-stats

But then again, if you can do well in Eugen and Hipper, you should be able to do a lot better in the others. But then again again, none of the others have these kinds of curves...

So sexy.... *fap*fap*fap*fap*

[Birkovic 135]

The expected values of the Hipper/Eugen compared to the other ships on your list says it all. These ships haven't been in a good place for a long while.

[RollerCoaster47 758]

Just finished grinding the Hipper today and all I can say is.... THANK GOD. Thing is still a steaming pile of shit. Enjoyed the Chapayev grind far, far more.

[Hellvn 578]

I really liked the Yorck, but don't do as well in the hipper for some reason.

It really needs repair or something to make it competitive.

Saying that, the gun performance is sublime - I've been able to land hits on DDs 14km out often.  (Just a shame that you can never set anything on fire...)

[Birkovic 135]

9 hours ago, RollerCoaster47 said:

Just finished grinding the Hipper today and all I can say is.... THANK GOD. Thing is still a steaming pile of shit. Enjoyed the Chapayev grind far, far more.

I'm curious, is the Chappy a rough grind? The radar and range makes it seem OK, though I would assume that the carry potentiale solo is below average.

[Jarkorsis 92]

Chappy is an easy grind. I just have to remember to stay beyond view range so I can stop firing and go dark if things get to hot. It helps if you have a 14 point captain with CE, IFHE, and DE.

The radar is nice but has a short active time, and I rarely get that close to anything to use it except late game.

 

[RollerCoaster47 758]

I see TouchFluffyRetard is still butthurt over.... I don't even know. Poor guy thinks he knows something about the game when he hasn't even gotten a tier ten yet and has virtually no experience at tier nine either.

I'm curious, is the Chappy a rough grind? The radar and range makes it seem OK, though I would assume that the carry potentiale solo is below average.

I thought it would be rough but it got more and more enjoyable as I progressed. I had two games in a row of 219K and 220K damage in the last few games I played in it. Overall, the Kutuzov is probably better, but having the concealment to always be within radar range once you get lit is nice. Detected, pop radar, rape DD for at least half its health, repeat. The best games in it come when you're hitting targets, primarily BBs, at range but you're not the center of attention as they shoot at someone closer and easier to hit than you. Kite away if you are the target, and accept that no matter how angled you are, sometimes BBs are going to get that citadel on you since your armor is quite thin.

[Deusmortis 4,618]

Between contracts, finding some time to play again.

I've had a very rough time in the Hipper.  Needed around 50k XP to move on, and figured I'd play it since Cruisers were necessary for a lot of the Yamamoto missions.  I just... could not seem to do anything well.  I think my best game was in the 70k damage range, and most of that came from surprising a Yammy with 4 torps.  Respecced to drop IFHE in favor of a higher fire chance.  About the only interesting thing was a tendency to get 0 damage crits when sailing away.  Did it enough once to earn hackusations.

Finished not long ago.  Picked up Roon, Free XP'd the gun upgrade.  Definitely a night and day level difference.  The faster reload makes it so much more enjoyable.  And the heal gives me far more flexibility.  Broke 100k within 4 games (all guns/fires).  Nice returning to the lower tier game play, being able to perform fighting withdraws with 6 barrels.  

[Madner Kami 405]

Nevermind, misread the post above.

[Deusmortis 4,618]

Doing something wrong in the Hindenburg.  Really can't figure it out.  My numbers look decent.  At the very least, better than a 40% win rate would suggest...

 

Any ideas?

[Madner Kami 405]

36 minutes ago, Deusmortis said:

Doing something wrong in the Hindenburg.  Really can't figure it out.  My numbers look decent.  At the very least, better than a 40% win rate would suggest...

 

Any ideas?

Some things just can not be explained by rational means, like my performance-differences in Hipper and Eugen:

(All PvP)

(Solo)

Thus, the explanation is easy: Someone at WG is fucking with you and has cranked the RNG-bullshittery factor of your account, when playing Hindenburg, up to eleven.

But seriously though, there's only so much that numbers can tell you. Just having high damage does not mean, that you were at the right spot at the right time. All it says is, that you managed to shoot and hit enemy ships. Winning is not just doing good damage, it's just as much about hitting the right ships and physically moving to places to block them off for the enemy, encourage them to turn away or broadside for your team and the subtle art of getting your team to do what they need to do.

[Deusmortis 4,618]

I believe the WG fucking with me theory.  Lost a 216k damage match yesterday.  I don't play it significantly differently than other cruisers... just can't seem to win.  I see people on youtube parking in open water adn firing unimpeded.  I tuck in close to an island, and get shot when not spotted.  Sometimes, my hydro fails to pick up torps.  I love the ship... just seems that I lose 6 games out of 5.  

[map381 264]

I'm with you Deus.   over 100 battles in mine, 87k average, 48%....