Messin’ with data – vbaddict x tanks.gg x wn8

[ModderKraken 59]

29 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

Ok, this should be semi-legit, barring skill adjustment:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NnIHlSfbMn4o-ehvGZSVj3Rr_wb5b6A68BhswG0xvkA/edit?usp=sharing

 

awesome thanks! what is definition of armeff? % incoming damaged that didn't reduce HP?

how do interpret last line in data set - T110E3 w armeff of 1.25? similar for maus, T95?

or is this  % incoming damaged that didn't reduce HP expressed as multiple of tank HP? Latter more intuitive....

[RichardNixon 835]

It's the same thing as "tanking factor" in-game. IIRC it's equal to damage_blocked / damage_received for post-9.0 battles. I don't think it includes nominal HE damage or shots that don't hit the tank's armour.

To get an "effective hp", you'd just need to do hp*(1+armeff), although of course this doesn't include the ability of a tank to generate misses.

[SFC_Storm 58]

Thanks to both you and nixon . Im telling you this system will have legs.

[ModderKraken 59]

15 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

It's the same thing as "tanking factor" in-game. IIRC it's equal to damage_blocked / damage_received for post-9.0 battles. I don't think it includes nominal HE damage or shots that don't hit the tank's armour.

To get an "effective hp", you'd just need to do hp*(1+armeff), although of course this doesn't include the ability of a tank to generate misses.

Thanks!

I tried two different approaches:

V1 - As you suggest above: Eff HP = HP * (1 + armeff)

V2 - My interpretation: Eff HP = HP + Damage_Blocked = HP + Damage_Received*armeff

Not much difference except a) couple of outliers like T95 where V1 shows bigger increase in eff armor and generally a ~10% higher Eff HP for V1.

I prefer V2, but it doesnt make much of a difference IMO.

15 hours ago, SFC_Storm said:

Thanks to both you and nixon . Im telling you this system will have legs.

Adding Eff Hp tp Eff DPM charts to OP

[ModderKraken 59]

And one moar: you can see how the upscaling of alpha per shot flattens the curve. And how the E5 tends to bounce more smaller caliber and the E2 more larger caliber. 

 

[RichardNixon 835]

34 minutes ago, ModderKraken said:

I tried two different approaches:

V1 - As you suggest above: Eff HP = HP * (1 + armeff)

V2 - My interpretation: Eff HP = HP + Damage_Blocked = HP + Damage_Received*armeff

The difference between these two is due to the average damage received being around ~75% of hp for an average player, and somewhat skill-dependent. If the value you want is "how much hp worth of hits will this tank take before being destroyed" then V1 is correct.

If the T95 comes out relatively low on V2, it's because it has an especially low average proportion of average damage received vs hp, which is reasonable because it has trouble keeping up with the action in winning games.

[ModderKraken 59]

5 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

The difference between these two is due to the average damage received being around ~75% of hp for an average player, and somewhat skill-dependent. If the value you want is "how much hp worth of hits will this tank take before being destroyed" then V1 is correct.

If the T95 comes out relatively low on V2, it's because it has an especially low average proportion of average damage received vs hp, which is reasonable because it has trouble keeping up with the action in winning games.

Got it. Difference seems tiny though, but will leave as is for now.

[sahtila 95]

NIce stuff, some comments:

T-44 in data is clearly using wrong gun. Even though 122mm gun is in theory higher tier gun ( VIII ), LB-1 100mm (VII) is one which is being used in reality and with it T44 will be lot better in stats I believe, fully competetive in its tier.

Effective dpm should have small adjustment for alpha damage IMHO, e50m should be there or close russian meds but its not even visible in map. FV215b should also be near top but it probably suffers in statistic for being constantly against tougher armor of enemy heavies while mediums have easier time fighting other light/meds so meds get inflated values compared to fv215b.  Maybe multiply current effective dpm values by average alpha for that gun to get better complete picture. Or increase effect of first shot on theoretical dpm, that would prolly do also.

TD8 chart is only good for easier TD8 mission, better graph for higher tier missions could something about effective dpm and camo/mobility. Two best tank for that missions are generally though to be hellcat and su100, neither of which really trusts armor at all when doing that mission.

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

Yeah, T44 seems to use the wrong gun, hence some of the strange results ^^ because everyone knows T44 #1 tier 8 med!

But interesting results, T28 htc seems quit though (while anything pens me always and ever)

[ModderKraken 59]

12 hours ago, sahtila said:

NIce stuff, some comments:

T-44 in data is clearly using wrong gun. Even though 122mm gun is in theory higher tier gun ( VIII ), LB-1 100mm (VII) is one which is being used in reality and with it T44 will be lot better in stats I believe, fully competetive in its tier.

Effective dpm should have small adjustment for alpha damage IMHO, e50m should be there or close russian meds but its not even visible in map. FV215b should also be near top but it probably suffers in statistic for being constantly against tougher armor of enemy heavies while mediums have easier time fighting other light/meds so meds get inflated values compared to fv215b.  Maybe multiply current effective dpm values by average alpha for that gun to get better complete picture. Or increase effect of first shot on theoretical dpm, that would prolly do also.

TD8 chart is only good for easier TD8 mission, better graph for higher tier missions could something about effective dpm and camo/mobility. Two best tank for that missions are generally though to be hellcat and su100, neither of which really trusts armor at all when doing that mission.

Yeah, looks like "top gun" choices for some of the tanks are curious in the wiki / tanks.gg. Hard for me to filter that manually. 

 

[SFC_Storm 58]

Kraken do you play on West at all? I need to plat with you and we can see if the super OP charts reflects.

[TankkiPoju 12]

Oh man, looks like I need to get that Obj260 for the HT-12 mission.

Oh wait...

[ModderKraken 59]

19 hours ago, SFC_Storm said:

Kraken do you play on West at all? I need to plat with you and we can see if the super OP charts reflects.

West ping worst ping, but friend me anyways.

[SFC_Storm 58]

On 11/4/2015, 5:35:09, ModderKraken said:

West ping worst ping, but friend me anyways.

I play East because West are bot baddies