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Retrofit Stacking And How It Affects Tank Stats

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I wanted to make this thread to show how retrofit stacking works. Some retrofits stack better than others, so perhaps if you're not sure what to stack then this will help. Huge warning as I'm not familiar with math terms, so I'll try to describe the concepts in this thread with layman's terms.
Currently, retrofits and crew skills are multiplicative, meaning they change stats by adding or removing numbers, which depends on the stat itself.
For example, if you have a reload retrofit that reduces time spent reloading, it multiplies downwards. If your base reload is 100%, a 10% reload reduction retrofit changes your reload in the following way:
100 (100% base reload) x 0.90 (reload retrofit) = 0.90% base reload. If "100%" means your reload is 10 seconds long, it will cut it down to 9 seconds.
Seems simple, right? Well, when you throw commander skills and multiple reload retrofits into the mix, it gets a little more complicated.

If we take 2 retrofits that both cut down reload by 10%, the math goes like this:
100 (100% base reload) x 0.90 (reload retrofit) = 0.90% base reload.
0.90 (new 90% "base" reload) x 0.90 (second reload retrofit) = 0.81% base reload.

And so on. The more reload retrofits you stack, the less of a benefit you see from it.

The opposite, however, is true for retrofits which multiply upwards. An example of this would be HP retrofits.
If a tank has 100 base HP and a retrofit adds 10% more HP, the math goes like this:
100 (100 base HP) x 1.10 (HP retrofit) = 110 HP.
And now for the same example as above. 2 retrofits which both add 10% HP.
100 (100 base HP) x 1.10 (HP retrofit) = 110 HP.
110 HP (new 110 "base" HP) x 1.10 (second HP retrofit) = 121 HP.

So with these examples in mind, we know that reductive retrofits benefit less from stacking while additive retrofits benefit more. So to help clear up any confusion, retrofits (and crew skills) in 0.11 work like this:

Additive (benefit from stacking):
All HP (incl. module HP) increasing bonuses
Damage (incl. module damage) increasing bonuses
All mobility bonuses
Capture rate bonuses
Camouflage bonuses
Crew skill bonuses
Crew/module HP/saving throw bonuses
Commander-based (e.g. Sabrina) view range bonuses

Neutral (flat bonuses; do not get better or worse when multiple are stacked):
Normalization bonuses
Retrofit and module-based vision bonuses

Subtractive (get worse the more they are stacked):
Aim time bonuses
Accuracy bonuses
Terrain resistance-based mobility bonuses
Reload (incl. ammo swap) time bonuses
Penalty reduction bonuses
Camouflage loss reduction bonuses
Accuracy loss reduction (e.g. moving accuracy) bonuses

If there are any bonuses here I didn't cover, you can narrow down if they benefit from stacking or not by asking yourself this question:
Does this bonus reduce a stat, or does it increase a stat?
So in effect this all means that when it comes to minmaxing your stats, it's better to build on your strengths rather than compensate for your weaknesses, so to say.

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9 hours ago, edger2020 said:

Great info.

But how does skill and equipment stack on top of that? For example crew skill for reduced aim + aim module  + aim retro?

It works the exact same way.
Regardless of if your bonus comes from a crew skill, a crew level, a commander bonus, a module, or a retrofit, they're all multiplicative.
To use an example of me trying to minmax my Warrior reload time:

10% faster reload from having Freja as my commander, 10%
5% from my loader being level 5, 15%
5% from one of my loader skills, 20%
6% from one of my retrofits, 26%
5.94% from one of my retrofits, rounded up to 6% for the sake of simplicity, 32%

And the Warrior's base reload speed is 5.4 seconds. So if all these were flat bonuses, my reload time would be:
5.40 x 0.68 = 3.67 seconds.
However, as the math turns out, it goes like this:
5.40 x 0.90 = 4.86
4.86 x 0.95 = 4.61
4.61 x 0.95 = 4.38
4.37 x 0.94 = 4.12
4.12 x 0.94 = 3.87

So ultimately, my reload is 0.20 seconds slower than it would be if they were flat bonuses. Of course, that's still cutting 1.53 seconds off of my base reload, but it is nonetheless 0.20 seconds you lose because of unfavorable math.

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Thanks for this topic!

I'd like to bring an example from my experience.
When I first read it I didn't have retrofits that stacked available yet, but as soon as I unlocked the chrome lining barrell from the leo 1 I tried fitting it on the Sheridan in place of the retrofit that reduces the reload time. I stacked it with the retrofit that gives pure dmg multiplier (the experimental propellant iirc) and the stacking gave me a great alpha dmg that sometimes rolls for over 500 and has at least 400 on min rolls for the top HEAT round.

As you said, it is better to improve greatly your strong points rather than minimizing the bad ones. The power of the Sheridan in that tier is the huge alpha and the power of crippling a tank with a single shot. I tried to capitalize on that with great results. The added accuracy bonus is just a good bonus to add up to the dmg, but I chose that retrofit mainly for the dmg bonus stacking.

I'll keep this in mind when fitting my new tanks, it's definetly a good thing to know :)

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On 11/11/2015, 7:59:24, Britzz said:

Thanks for this topic!

I'd like to bring an example from my experience.
When I first read it I didn't have retrofits that stacked available yet, but as soon as I unlocked the chrome lining barrell from the leo 1 I tried fitting it on the Sheridan in place of the retrofit that reduces the reload time. I stacked it with the retrofit that gives pure dmg multiplier (the experimental propellant iirc) and the stacking gave me a great alpha dmg that sometimes rolls for over 500 and has at least 400 on min rolls for the top HEAT round.

As you said, it is better to improve greatly your strong points rather than minimizing the bad ones. The power of the Sheridan in that tier is the huge alpha and the power of crippling a tank with a single shot. I tried to capitalize on that with great results. The added accuracy bonus is just a good bonus to add up to the dmg, but I chose that retrofit mainly for the dmg bonus stacking.

I'll keep this in mind when fitting my new tanks, it's definetly a good thing to know :)

Have you gotten the magnetic actuator? That peice looks pretty good for all MBTs (or high caliber vehicles). I'd honestly recommend it over the chrome barrel lining

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6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Have you gotten the magnetic actuator? That peice looks pretty good for all MBTs (or high caliber vehicles). I'd honestly recommend it over the chrome barrel lining

Not yet unfortunately, that's why I went for the lining barrel :)
It's just a matter of working with what I got, I'll probably revise all my retrofit setups once I have more unlocked 

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The gotta fix the reload speed stacking, it's making arty ultra cancerous.

Supposedly there is a fix going in this week that means they won't double dip on loader skill by having two loaders. Thats half as much cancer, probably still going to be silly though.

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I'm willing to bet we can't and he's an unpaid moderator, he just loves having power.

its just sad how much a little authority will change people, i used to love FTR when SS ran that site and he was a cool guy back then.....but now hes just a dick....

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its just sad how much a little authority will change people, i used to love FTR when SS ran that site and he was a cool guy back then.....but now hes just a dick....

I was told he deleted comments that disagreed with him and was generally a cunt at FTR.

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This crew skill stacking has turned otherwise slow/sluggish vehicles and turned them into optimus prime, PAC 90 and Cent 120 for example are fucking amazing now and will steamroll everything in their path.

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FWIW, several of the assumptions about stacking in the OP are incorrect.

I reverse-engineered the calculations for aim time and reload time back in November but unfortunately didn't post them here.

Here is the latest information:

http://taugrim.com/2015/10/20/taugrims-the-art-of-warfare-tank-reviews-and-guides-for-armored-warfare/#stat-formulas

http://taugrim.com/2015/10/20/taugrims-the-art-of-warfare-tank-reviews-and-guides-for-armored-warfare/#stat-priority

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