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Rexxie

Centurion AX and Why You Need One

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6 hours ago, Rexxie said:

People play the 30B to be hipster. No other reason. It's the least played T10 MT, not sure why you're seeing a lot of them.

Probably confirmation bias after I somehow got that idea in my head.

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I was really enjoying this tank, but the constant ammo rack damage started to really spoil the experience. Having an ammo rack on the inside of both front wheels is crippling.

When you poke your front a round a corner and take hit, you're running a 27% chance of getting yellow ammo rack damage and tracked at the same time. This means if you don't currently have a large repair kit you can't play aggressive at all, even trading out low health tanks at end-game is super risky. Oh you had to repair your tracks early game due to arty splash? Well I hope you're happy with playing the rest of the game in your near full heath tank like a passive pussy.

After checking out StranaMechty's post about safe stowage effectiveness,

I've decided to drop optics for a wet ammo rack.

The Action X's ammo rack has a total of 260HP, and a regen point of 180HP. This leaves only 80HP of rack damage you can tank before it goes yellow, which practically every gun you face can beat on a min crit-damage roll.

Safe stowage alone only grows that 80HP buffer to a 112.5 HP buffer before yellow rack damage, which is enough to avoid getting yellow damage from 100mm guns ~17% of the time, but 105mm guns will still do yellow damage 100% of the time if you fail your module saving through. This alone isn't really enough to give you an appreciable boost in ammo rack durability.

With wet ammo rack alone you buff that 80HP ammo rack health buffer to 210HP of rack durability before yellow damage, and WAR + Safe Stowage gives you 268HP ammo rack module damage you can tank before taking yellow damage, which is a huge difference.

Without WAR and SS a Cent X will get have 27% chance of yellow damage on the first hit, a 46.71% chance of yellow damage after 2 hits, and a 7.29% chance of rack detonation in the first two hits if the rack isn't repaired between hits. (assuming it is hit by gun calibers of 105mm+, the chances aren't much better with 100mm and below guns though). So if a TVP starts unloading on your front wheels at the start of the battle and you are slow on using your large repair kit, the amount of ammo rack detonations you experience isn't going to be mere confirmation bias.

With WAR + SS you gain complete immunity to yellow ammo rack damage from a single shot from gun calibers 152mm and less. Only guns of caliber 128mm+ have any chance of detonating your ammo rack in two hits, and even then most of them require high crit damage rolls. Additionally there is no gun in the game with a caliber large enough to one shot detonate your ammo rack if you run both WAR + SS, even on a max crit damage roll.

With WAR + SS, if you're facing guns of 152mm and less, you have 0% chance of taking yellow rack damage on the first hit. 7.29% of taking yellow rack damage after two hits (failing the module saving throw twice in a row). And you will practically never get full ammo detonated before you've already lost all your hitpoints over the course of a game.

It's a real shame to have to drop optics, but I think WAR might actually save this tank for me, as it should transform it from a paper support tank with shitty modules, into a capable generalist tank that suffers next to no module damage frontally (apart from the tracks, it always gets tracked).

Does anyone else have WAR on their Action X?

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1 hour ago, GlenoWar said:

Does anyone else have WAR on their Action X?

Would never drop optics on any med to even try it. I have tried it in my E5, and was not worth it. And that tank must go front line, or you let your team die miserably...

And consider 2 things:

1. E5 does not need optics, and loss of vents is not noticeable at all. But I hardly noticed any improvement in ammo rack durability.

2. E5 gets penned almost only in LFP, where is the ammo rack. AX turret is meh, and I pen it all the time with all sort of shit, so it does not get shot solely in the area where the ammo rack is.

I see you are not running 2 rep kits.

2 rep kits are better than WAR IMHO, not just because of optics, but also it gives you rep speed bonus for track repair. Even if you use it, 50% of bonus is still on.

large rep allows you to repair rack+track instantly, and later you can be more careful, but not a pussy (1 rep kit left). Also, you do not have that much hitpoints left anyway, so after 2x repairing ammo rack, you are left on 1/2, or 1/3 of your health, or less. getting the next shot for 3rd yellow ammo rack in game, and we are speaking about being one-shot even for scouts, so you are unable to carry in 99% of games.

If you are a fan of food, use jack of all trades and drop the medkit (but not worth it that much since crew deaths are often+we get more derps in tiers 9-10 soon:triggered:).

P.S. Why you repair tracks after arty splash? Do you have a full repair crew?

I usually do not get splashed where others can shoot me (usually when surfing ridge and retreating).

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24 minutes ago, Felicius said:

Would never drop optics on any med to even try it. I have tried it in my E5, and was not worth it. And that tank must go front line, or you let your team die miserably...

And consider 2 things:

1. E5 does not need optics, and loss of vents is not noticeable at all. But I hardly noticed any improvement in ammo rack durability.

2. E5 gets penned almost only in LFP, where is the ammo rack. AX turret is meh, and I pen it all the time with all sort of shit, so it does not get shot solely in the area where the ammo rack is.

I see you are not running 2 rep kits.

2 rep kits are better than WAR IMHO, not just because of optics, but also it gives you rep speed bonus for track repair. Even if you use it, 50% of bonus is still on.

large rep allows you to repair rack+track instantly, and later you can be more careful, but not a pussy (1 rep kit left). Also, you do not have that much hitpoints left anyway, so after 2x repairing ammo rack, you are left on 1/2, or 1/3 of your health, or less. getting the next shot for 3rd yellow ammo rack in game, and we are speaking about being one-shot even for scouts, so you are unable to carry in 99% of games.

If you are a fan of food, use jack of all trades and drop the medkit (but not worth it that much since crew deaths are often+we get more derps in tiers 9-10 soon:triggered:).

P.S. Why you repair tracks after arty splash? Do you have a full repair crew?

I usually do not get splashed where others can shoot me (usually when surfing ridge and retreating).

 

Yeah, I did consider running 2 repair kits. I only have a 3 skill crew so with repairs and other essential perks it doesn't leave many slots left for fire fighting.

I'll run with WAR for a while to see how it feels, but I do already miss the view range, even on Himmelsdorf there are places where you benefit from having greater than spotting distance in view range.

I was thinking more of batchat arty, but that isn't generally an issue in early game. It's more that there are a few cases where you get tracked and can't afford to wait out the repair times.

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Played a few games in it this evening, and it appears that my understanding of how WAR and SS effect yellow ammo rack damage is completely wrong.

I played 7-8 games being moderately aggressive and didn't get yellow ammo rack damage once, and thought that it was totally working. At least the confidence it provided allowed me to play better than I have been over the last several days.

But in one battle I use my repair kit on a damaged gun after the initial short range phase of combat was over 0 hull hitpoints lost so far. However the very first shot of hull damage took after that from a batchat 25 t ap brought my ammo rack down to yellow. Then a couple of games later a T110E5 also did yellow ammo rack damage on the first damage received of the game.

So either the critical damage roll is way more variable than the +-25% indicated, which is unlikely, or some assumptions about how the max ammo rack durability inter-plays with the yellow damage threshold are incorrect. I suspect that the 62.5% durability gain from both WAR and SS apply to the yellow damage threshold and the total ammo rack health. So the 80HP buffer that the Action X's has before taking yellow ammo rack damage is scaled by 1.625 to give 130 effective module HP before going yellow, which would give it less than a 50/50 saving through against 100mm caliber guns 135HP module damage, and have hardly any effect against 105mm guns 150HP of module damage. Though this is just speculation on my part.

I'll play a few more games with it this way, then try two repair kits instead, but so far the WAR doesn't feel like its worth an equipment slot.

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23 hours ago, GlenoWar said:

 

Yeah, I did consider running 2 repair kits.

Fuck FF. I have it on one crew only, out of like 10 tanks i run without FF. BIA, full repair, camo, SS, 6th, gun handling/vision...more important.

You burn like once in 15-20 games. So what. But you get racked 1.5x every game, and lose crew almost every game. I do not give advice to ppl with 5 skill crew, they can do whatever they want. Almost no one had played a single tank for 5 k battles.

My reasoning is to increase the overall effectiveness of a tank, without cutting corners. Roasting is painful, but not that detrimental to maintaining your consistency (far less than lacking view range or 2 rep kits). This is not an KV-4, the only tank that needs 2 fire extinguishers, lol.

Besides, FF is overrated. After already losing a massive chunk of HP, full FF saves only about 40% of the burn-out HP. I generally get set on fire by arty in nimble tanks (in lumbering heavies, flanking is more often, and they are more resilient to arty anyway), so burning to death is not that bad - I would be on 1/4 hp or less left with it, anyway, or if hit for half of hitpoints (or damaged previously) would burn to death regardless.

Probably the best example of that are Swede heavies. Burn just from arty, that loves you. You lose almost all (or all) of your hp from any arty hit/splash that has on chance of setting you on fire - paper thin sides, but turret is god mode, so you take like 400-500 dmg at best, and can not be set on fire that way. Food is a must because gun handling. Even AFE is worthless, since it would save you with like 300 hp left, and full FF would not extinguish the fire before you die anyway.

Tank with frontal engines/almost anything Soviet is another story (aside from IS-3/T-10)...there you run AFE, no matter full FF crew.

To be honest, running AFE is the best bet, but some tanks have ingrained flaws that prevent them to use it. tank selection and appropriate equipment/consumables play a big role in how can you use your tank - roles you take and levels of aggressiveness.

Ammo rack being the one of the worst things that can happen is obvious, but some tanks lose the engine, and get set on fire frontally - they have an even harder call for consumable choice. for example waffle 4, Rhoomba, Obj 416/A-44...Because they have plenty of crew deaths, too. In them it is still safer to go with 2 rep kits and AFE+JOAT, and pray that you dont lose 3 crewmembers from arty hit (or stay far from the new jap derps).

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No idea why I expected not to like this tank. Despite having a meh 3 skill crew I love this tank like I love all good gun dep tanks that aren't gimped to hell with everything else. The mix of mobility, dpm and some turret armor make this tank so consistent I can pull decent dmg even in games when I get ammoracked. 

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One strong advantage to this tank is accuracy.  It's dispersion and low bloom values, like its heavy sibling, means you usually hit what you are aiming at, increasing practical DPM.  

I think overall accuracy is an undervalued feature which just makes some tanks, like the top Brits and US meds, so comfy to play. 

If I didn't have to grind through two more fairly crappy tanks to get to it, I'd have this one now as well. Playing it on the CT is quite enjoyable. 

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23 minutes ago, Griphos said:

One strong advantage to this tank is accuracy.  It's dispersion and low bloom values, like its heavy sibling, means you usually hit what you are aiming at, increasing practical DPM.  

I think overall accuracy is an undervalued feature which just makes some tanks, like the top Brits and US meds, so comfy to play. 

If I didn't have to grind through two more fairly crappy tanks to get to it, I'd have this one now as well. Playing it on the CT is quite enjoyable. 

After reading this topic many people complain about bloom. It's really mediocre for a t10 med . Especially the turret traverse is bad and only 0.01 better than the STB while move and tracks is only 0.02 better. Most t10 meds get better bloom and many of them get better acc actually. It just doesn't feel like an STB because of better aim time + better final acc. Those make it feel like the bloom is soo much better. 

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3 hours ago, hazzgar said:

After reading this topic many people complain about bloom. It's really mediocre for a t10 med . Especially the turret traverse is bad and only 0.01 better than the STB while move and tracks is only 0.02 better. Most t10 meds get better bloom and many of them get better acc actually. It just doesn't feel like an STB because of better aim time + better final acc. Those make it feel like the bloom is soo much better. 

But hen again if I remember correctly STB has more DPM, stronk turret and lower profile... 

I played both few battles and both are equally frustrating in some regard.

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13 hours ago, BlackAdder said:

But hen again if I remember correctly STB has more DPM, stronk turret and lower profile... 

I played both few battles and both are equally frustrating in some regard.

I really need to try the Stb on test but I like the Cax. Somehow the ammoracks don't annoy me when the tank is fast and has gun depression and enough gun handling to always find a way to deal some damage.

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I think that in a tier10 one shouldn´t think of just doing some damage but to win the game and for winning getting ammoracked all the time is really bad. However with the new recharging consumables ammo rack damages shouldn´t be so crippling anymore. So lets see if there is something else wrong with this tank too...

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22 hours ago, TohtoriP said:

I think that in a tier10 one shouldn´t think of just doing some damage but to win the game and for winning getting ammoracked all the time is really bad. However with the new recharging consumables ammo rack damages shouldn´t be so crippling anymore. So lets see if there is something else wrong with this tank too...

The ammorack is annoying but if easily damagable modules were that much of a problem no one would like or get high wr in bulldog, leopard, any chinese tank or the fv215b. 

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I do like my CAX, personally never found the ammo rack to be much of an issue, but that might be an artifact of grinding up the line. Both the Cent I and the Cent 7/1 have the ammo rack in the same spot, so after a while you get used to always showing the opposite side if you look like taking a shot. You will take ammo rack damage on a semi-regular basis simply because anything that hits in that area is likely to take it out, but personally found it quite manageable. The bigger issue for me has been the gunner dying multiple times because high-tier tanks just pen you straight through the turret.

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5 hours ago, Balthazars said:

I do like my CAX, personally never found the ammo rack to be much of an issue, but that might be an artifact of grinding up the line. Both the Cent I and the Cent 7/1 have the ammo rack in the same spot, so after a while you get used to always showing the opposite side if you look like taking a shot. You will take ammo rack damage on a semi-regular basis simply because anything that hits in that area is likely to take it out, but personally found it quite manageable. The bigger issue for me has been the gunner dying multiple times because high-tier tanks just pen you straight through the turret.

Strange I found the turret to work rather well in mine. Though after playing a few other meds again I know why people complain about the handling. In those shit situations where you have a split second to peak I'd rather be in an e50 or a patton

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