Jump to content
onlytoughonline

Indien Panzer: Frustration on tracks

Recommended Posts

I just don't get this tank.  I recently started grinding this line again after a long break, and this thing just doesn't click with me.  I'm terrible anyways, which is probably a large part of it, but it can't be everything.  Right now I am running Rammer, GLD and Vert Stab on it, which seems like a logical choice given the crap gun-handling it seems to have.  My question to the community is:  What is the optimum way to play this thing?  I know it's not a brawler, much more snipery (is that a word?) and can't take a hit at all it seems like.  Any input would be great. TIA!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't played the Indien yet, but I'll answer anyway, because I'm about to transfer my VK 30.02(D) crew into it.

Looking at the stats, it has the following things going for it: penetration, accuracy (poor aim time and dispersion on the move), shell velocity, gun depression, small turret, and side armor.

It's an opportunistic support med that doesn't need to flank, and should avoid getting itself committed into a brawl or pure DPM exchange. It should concentrate on sniping, particularly over hills. It has the mobility to keep relocating to find the best positions to support the team. Unfortunately, view range and camo are mediocre.

It can do some decent short-range fighting as well. You can sidescrape from behind solid cover to prompt lucky bounces on your tracks or side armor.

Depending on how often the fuel tanks are hit, 12% fire chance on the engine means that switching the extinguisher for chocolate should be a good option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's another of the Tier 8 NATO snipers gimped by 240 alpha. While I don't have the Indien, I do have the 50t which is pretty similar except that it's even bigger, taller, with worse gun dep, armor and camo. My problem is that the turret is cheese and the gun, while nice, is not enough against the 390/320 alpha class of guns which nowadays don't get much (any) penalty to gun handling.

 

I'm not sure if it's just me but it seems that the NATO meds have been getting the short end of the stick lately, with the corridor changes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I ground through the Indien the sniper meta was still valid so that is how I played it. That being said the armor angling on the tank can generate some interesting RNG bounces. I ran dual repair kits and a med pack since it is kind of fragile. Practice getting opportunistic shots in and being a vulture, because after the Indy the PTA and Leo 1 are more delicate in exchange for speed/camo. If you find yourself unable to adapt to the play style you may find the later tanks in this line to be more frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Indien is one of my favorite tanks in the game, and I finally managed to get my second mark on it yesterday. I'll start off with its flaws:

-Aim time: The 9 cm gun (which is definitely the best gun) has a relatively long 2.7 second aiming time. In addition to this, it has terrible dispersion with track traverse, so it's pretty shit at firing on the move. However, the dispersion on turret traverse is surprisingly good - if you can only turn the turret, it's pretty accurate. Learning how to practice "bloom control", like on the T49, is an important skill for this tank.

-Mobility: I'll start off by saying that the Indien is not the most mobile t8 med. Elited, you have a specific power of 15.95. Out of the ones I've played (which aren't that numerous), it feels similar in cruising speed to a STA-1. You'll typically make about 42-45 on level ground, eventually maxing out to your top speed of 50 km/h. It's not a slow tank, but don't expect it to shift in the same way as, for example, the T-44.

-HP: At 1300, this is towards the bottom end of t8 mediums. Besides prems, only the T-34-2 (off the top of my head) has less. The difference isn't that much compared to the ones with 1450 health, but you can't take that many hits. 

-View Range: You only have 380 m, which isn't that great compared to things like the Centurion, which has 400. Optics is pretty much a must. 

Now, for the positives.

-The Gun: Aside from the aiming time, which I covered, this is one kickass medium tank gun. .34 accuracy is pretty nice; the gun also has great 212 base AP Pen (enough to punch through any t8 heavy and a bunch of t9 ones frontally) and gets APCR as prem ammo with 259 pen. The shell velocity is great with 1000 m/s AP and 1250 m/s APCR, which aids in sniping. The dpm is also phemonemal for t8 meds, with only the Object 416 being higher (who knew). I believe my reload is around 6.2 seconds without BIA. When you're shooting people this often with such an accurate and high pen gun, it starts to add up.

-The armor: Whereas the armor isn't *that* good, it has some good attributes, and as armor isn't the defining characteristic of mediums in general, I decided to put it in this category There are 3 main areas that the armor on the Indien is alright. They are 1)the turret, 2)the side, and 3)the upper plate. The turret has some weak points - it has a cupola, and there's an armor hole behind the mantlet on each side of the gun (so around 130 mm thick). However, the turret is extremely rounded, and the mantlet is huge af. Even though the thickness is only nominally 90 mm, you can quickly hit 200mm+ on the sides of the turret due to sloping. Generally, the turret face has a min of around 160 effective. When you combine that with the large, troll 130 mm mantlet, you can bounce a surprising number of things. Just don't count on it. Also, the turret is fairly small - when at long ranges, it can prove difficult to hit. The side is also an oddity, armorwise. Behind the tracks (which are large and absorb a fair amount of shots themselves), you have 90 mm of side armor, which is actually really good. Above those, you only have 60 mm, but it's angled inwards sort of like some Russian heavies. You can actually sidescrape in this thing with a modicum of success. Due to this, you're not automatically screwed if you overangle a bit. Just mostly screwed. Last - the upper plate. This is probably the most obvious feature of the tank. It's only 90 mm thick, but features dank sloping, which is exacerbated by-

-Depression: This thing gets -10 gun depression, which allows it to peak over hills and snipe successfully. When using that depression/hulldown and rocking back/forth, especially at long ranges, the turret is fairly hard to hit. The troll turret armor may also sometimes bounce what's thrown at it. You also have 20 degrees of elevation, which is fine I guess. 

-Maneuverability: Both the tracks and the turret traverse at 36 degrees per second - above average for t8 meds. Whereas the Panther II, the other t8 German med, is predominantly a sniper, the Indien can use this maneuverability to engage in some brawling - where it can leverage that great dpm to keep things tracked and circlejerked. This can ameliorate some of the Indien's issues - poor view range, and camo (I didn't touch on this earlier but the camo is nothing fantastic). However, this shouldn't be your goal when entering games - just be aware that you can fulfill that duty in a pinch. 

-Sexy: Look at the fucking thing. 

-Doesn't get set on fire that much - rear transmission/engine combined with only a 12% means that you don't have to run an extinguisher. 

 

By no means is the Indien the best t8 medium tank, it's outclassed by stuff like the Pershing and the 416. Hopefully, now you know why (imo) this thing's underrated. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Mureke said:

Depending on how often the fuel tanks are hit, 12% fire chance on the engine means that switching the extinguisher for chocolate should be a good option.

This is actually something I didn't consider as I have a crap ton of it in my depot from various events.  Fuel tanks on this seem reasonably reliable and I'll probably give this a shot.  

15 hours ago, Korb3n_Dallas said:

When I ground through the Indien the sniper meta was still valid so that is how I played it. That being said the armor angling on the tank can generate some interesting RNG bounces. I ran dual repair kits and a med pack since it is kind of fragile. Practice getting opportunistic shots in and being a vulture, because after the Indy the PTA and Leo 1 are more delicate in exchange for speed/camo. If you find yourself unable to adapt to the play style you may find the later tanks in this line to be more frustrating.

I'm fairly sure I'll adapt my style accordingly, it's just taking a few more games than I'm used to.  Just a different ball of wax compared to the Centurion AX and my Russian meds. 

Thanks for the input everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a very close game exemplifying the Indien's main strength: gun depression.

http://replays.quickybaby.com/result.php?id=185734 (v9.13)

I'll address some of the good points brought up by flare_phoenix.

 

-Aim time: The 9 cm gun (which is definitely the best gun) has a relatively long 2.7 second aiming time. In addition to this, it has terrible dispersion with track traverse, so it's pretty shit at firing on the move. However, the dispersion on turret traverse is surprisingly good - if you can only turn the turret, it's pretty accurate. Learning how to practice "bloom control", like on the T49, is an important skill for this tank.

As shown by the replay, I don't have the patience for the aim time at medium range fights. Sniping is nice, though.

 

-View Range: You only have 380 m, which isn't that great compared to things like the Centurion, which has 400. Optics is pretty much a must.

I went full noob and put in vents to improve the gun handling. Vision games are doable with 100% camo and chocolate.

 

-The Gun: Aside from the aiming time, which I covered, this is one kickass medium tank gun. .34 accuracy is pretty nice; the gun also has great 212 base AP Pen (enough to punch through any t8 heavy and a bunch of t9 ones frontally) and gets APCR as prem ammo with 259 pen.

In the replay, I fire APCR at IS-3 fronts. AP will go through most of the time, but only APCR has the minimum pen value to be reliable.

 

However, the turret is extremely rounded, and the mantlet is huge af. Even though the thickness is only nominally 90 mm, you can quickly hit 200mm+ on the sides of the turret due to sloping.

The side is also an oddity, armorwise. Behind the tracks (which are large and absorb a fair amount of shots themselves), you have 90 mm of side armor, which is actually really good. Above those, you only have 60 mm, but it's angled inwards sort of like some Russian heavies. You can actually sidescrape in this thing with a modicum of success. Due to this, you're not automatically screwed if you overangle a bit. Just mostly screwed.

I've gotten a lot of bounces in my games by baiting shots on the side armor at auto-bounce angles or less. Towards the end of the replay, I luckily bounce an IS-3A shell with the top rear of the side armor which doesn't even seem to have hitbox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had good success with the I-P: 1812 DPG (I wasn't that great back then), 62% WR and 3047 WN8 over 125 games.

I have not played it in over a year but Flare gave a good review. If I remember, you have to research almost everything. The long 88 is fine for the early grind, but the 9cm is so: "welcome to sexy post-ww2 guns" town. it's like the long 8.8 version 2.0. 

-You are really not that fast, especially before you get the top engine. This is a mixed bag because it means you can't get yourself into trouble too quickly like many mediums can and do, but might be able to get into position to get a shot at the early lights your more nimble teammates pop. I found that often meant I would play center-ish (but never isolated- remember, lowish vision and no brawling means you can get ganked easily) on most maps so I could easily relocate as needed during the second and third periods. 

-Do run optics and anything you can to help with the bloom. It's really easy to rush your shots, and sometimes you have to, but try to check yourself.  

-You get some bounces off the turret and the sharply angled front, especially when you are looking down on someone.

-You are tall, so just keep that in mind for arty, etc. 

More than a long range sniper (which you can do reasonably well) think second line med/long range terrain abuse.  Don't try to outvision opponents.  Gun bloom/aim time will troll you hard in the brawl so avoid it unless absolutely necessary. 

Have fun!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been playing it for the on track, not impressed. It's not bad, it's actually good in its CHAI snipe role and can survive at mid range by staying hull down. The problem is that stuff just doesn't win game these days. Farm some damage, but if your team starts to lose you're not going to pull it back by hiding behind hills tickling people for 240 a hit. World of RRR Heavies has no place for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Been playing it for the on track, not impressed. It's not bad, it's actually good in its CHAI snipe role and can survive at mid range by staying hull down. The problem is that stuff just doesn't win game these days. Farm some damage, but if your team starts to lose you're not going to pull it back by hiding behind hills tickling people for 250 a hit. World of RRR Heavies has no place for you.

Fixt. Not that its significant.

 

I found the hull to be really troll in the 4 battles I played it near-stock.

Fuck its slow with the stock engine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't mind it too much pre buff. It just suffered from the standard 240 alpha 8 med syndrome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2020 at 1:14 PM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Fixt. Not that its significant.

 

I found the hull to be really troll in the 4 battles I played it near-stock.

Fuck its slow with the stock engine. 

man I wanted to off myself completely stock. I had the stock 88 so that's goldspam and with the stock tracks and engine you move like a bad heavy tank. After I elited it it was alright. The gun was fine but low alpha is low alpha, it doesn't have something crazy going for it like T-44-100 or spaghetti tank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2020 at 4:30 AM, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Been playing it for the on track, not impressed. It's not bad, it's actually good in its CHAI snipe role and can survive at mid range by staying hull down. The problem is that stuff just doesn't win game these days. Farm some damage, but if your team starts to lose you're not going to pull it back by hiding behind hills tickling people for 240 a hit. World of RRR Heavies has no place for you.

It can win games but only if you have a) alpha or dpm b) speed to relocate often. This is why t9 works but this doesnt

On 3/28/2020 at 6:57 AM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Now it suffers from not-a-progetto syndrome. 

Yeah it's also worse than some lights. LTTB will do damage as well but is a light, Same for BC12T. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only play German tanks, mostly, so I can say this....Indy Pnz is amazing.   No, you're not going to go face off with a Prog, but you can certainly harass and finish them off. 

I ground from the bottom, new crew ect.... I think I fell to about 40% first 100 games and lingered there,  now I'm up to 48% and climbing.  I'm no expert but a few things I have been successful at.

HE rounds not only pen 100mm, but also get there fast, this tank is cool for shooting EBRs and scouts.  Don't label it a EBR killer, but taking shots at them will produce better results then most.

Speed, camo, and spot are all decent enough to get you into spots where you can use those HE rounds against the sides and rears of Meds, TDs, and some heavies.  SkorpG, SU130, Progs, all fun to troll with HE rounds.

End game it's even more awesome, good combo of abilities allows you to move around or stay seated somewhere.

Turret will bounce a lot, provided you are keeping yourself at a medium distance.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...