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andepans

Everyone Has a Price

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4 hours ago, andepans said:

Everyone Has a Price

Everyone Has Different Standards of Morality except Mine are Obviously the Most Correct

Here, I fixed your title for you.

 

I haven't seen this much pretentious bullshit in a WotLabs post since the first 10th last time Kewei said he was quitting and proceeded to lecture us on how we were wasting our lives playing this game. Thanks for using including all the loaded/emotive language and ostentatious/pseudo-intellectual grammar; it shows us all exactly what a haughty dipshit you are.

 

So you think my collaborating with associates to complete Steel Hunt missions makes me cheater?

 

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

 

 

P.S. If anyone who isn't a complete fucking choad wants to have a reasonable discussion on the morality of this, feel free to quote this post. I promise I won't be so meen to you.

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1 hour ago, dustygator said:

 

I think want andepans is trying to say is this.

A lot of people thought what KA was doing with the Stronghold bloc was unfair. It was touted that, "If you can't compete than you don't deserve the reward." How ironic is it then, that so many good/great players have sunk to unsportsmanlike conduct because they can't "compete."

Now, think what you want, but collusion and rigging are against the rules and I hope all of those that did so, to any extent, are punished in accordance with their "crimes."

What WG did was pretty miserable. I mentioned the whole "compete" thing. WG made a set of missions so absurdly difficult and improbable that there was NO LEGITIMATE WAY to complete them with fair play. In this regard WG failed, and failed hard. By putting a tasty treat on such an impossibly long stick, they made people salivate over something that for, imo, literally 100% of people would not be able to get...legitimately that is.

Now, does this justify the rigging? No, no it does not. If you care about fair play at all, the only winning move here, was not to play. Let WG's mode fail, let them see that the missions are absurd by the fact that no one has the tank and no one wants to suffer through the mode. Instead all of those who rigged sullied their own honor and reputation.

I hate to use the "cliche" but those who support rigging seem to be using the whole, "But she asked for it mentality." The reward was SO good, and SO unobtainable naturally, that we just HAD to use an underhanded method to obtain it.

Instead of having the self-control to abstain from the damn frenzy until it became easier, riggers instead glutted themselves on the easily manipulated system.

The shame is twofold.

WG for fucking up the difficulty and the riggers for falling for it.

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I am normally pretty much a stickler for these sorts of rules, and I generally believe that rigging a competition is pretty reprehensible.  However, from what people are saying about the requirements, it sounds like they're saying the requirements are so difficult that even the best players in the game are extremely unlikely to win the tank without collusion.

Does that make it right to rig matches?  I can't say it does, but it does make me less inclined to consider the people rigging the matches dirtbags.  If the requirements are that absurd, well, WG should have thought it through.

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People realize that the missions are extremely easy to complete in groups for a free tank, yet the tank is not good enough for the effort or time to be put in, in order to receive the tank solo or through other legitimate means like platooning. 

If Wargaming did not make missions that were so focused on doing dumb individual tasks, focused on making the tank a reward through good gameplay, and not made it so overwhelmingly easy to rig these games, no one would be rushing over each other like on a Black Friday opening to get the new tank.

 

It's not really a question of morale at this point.

Edited by Victrix™

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6 hours ago, SirKnumskull said:

and nobody gets fucked over. And this is the point that differentiates mission rigging from using illegal mods and similar things - there are no losers.

Must disagree - the people playing the mode legitimately get fucked over, and the people playing the mode legitimately are the losers.

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Its a fucking videogame, there are no real world consequences, if anyone didn't want to do it, they could of stopped at any time with zero repercussions.

 

Now repeat after me.

I rigged the mission because I wanted to.

I rigged the mission because I wanted to.

I rigged the mission because I wanted to.

 

 

I rigged the mission because I wanted to.

And i'm god damn proud of it.

 

Because after all, if you are ashamed of it, why would you have done it in the first place? 

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It seems that one again, wargaming has a fundamental lack of understanding. Put something in front of humans, people do bad things to get what they want. Time and time again, this happens, yet what is being done? Nothing. Nothing will ever be done. If the people who made these missions first had to complete them, we would be in a different situation.

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5 hours ago, andepans said:

Do you not agree the rigging is entirely to blame for this?

The part of me that is upset at the cheating is dwarfed by the part of me that is spellbound in fascination at the tenacity of mission rigging. Did anyone expect to see top-level players openly write "Fuck you, I wanted this prize so I cheated to get it." Does no one question the implication of these attitudes for other competitive formats?

No rigging is not to blame.  The tank became unobtainable by legit methods on NA because of 2 reasons.

1. It's a shit game mode.  It's been in the patches previous, it got popular, then died off when first introduced.  Then REINVIGORATED!!!! Some pubbies played round 2, the rest of us were like no thanks I don't like losing money pointlessly.  THEN they introduced it a 3rd time........and what does War Gaming do to make it popular on NA? They get @Anfield and @JunkersHiryu to platoon up in Type 5 heavies on stream in front of all the reds and oranges with a War Gaming marketer who has no idea what game he's playing spouting advertising like it's mana from heaven (was pretty funny because Anfield and Junkers were clearly amused by this WG guy and I was too).  NOW that the previous thing didn't work, now War Gaming introduces another RU medium that EVERYONE can get and it's very VERY fucking good.  Naturally everyone wants it now, so BOOM game mode popular again, and eventually after 2 weeks the reds give up because they realize how hard the missions are and that they will never ever get past mission 1 so they quit and go back to their arty XVM focus.

2. NA server population is low.  The 2nd lowest of all the fucking servers (SEA lowest).  Naturally with every single fucking pubbie quitting the game mode, how are unicums who STILL WANT THE TANK and can get the tank going to get matches now? 5 minute ques? Fuck that, I'll rig with 15 other guys if I have to, risk a 24 hour ban JUST to get the fucking tank.

Boom my reasoning on why rigging is fine now.  Take it or leave it, you're arguing fucking MORALITY on a god damn fucking video game.  This isn't fucking 4HIM where we go spouting morals and the fucking gospel in random TeamSpeaks (trust me I would know, one of those bitches came into SIMP ts and started preaching the gospel and got offended when I started swearing at arty.....TLDR; I banned him).  If you're still salty about this mission rigging, then join a fucking clan or jump on the PETCO ts late night and get some fucking rigging done and be done with this shit honestly.

 

EDIT: lol just realized how ragey 5 days of no sleep can make you snap like a twig XD

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The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

If you cheat because there no real-world consequences, or because you're unlikely to get caught, or because the reward is worth it, dammit, then that speaks to your character. And let's not beat around the bush, this is cheating. I, for one, cannot compartmentalize my morals and ethics. As part of my job, I have to maintain an extremely high standard of ethical behavior, and I simply cannot turn that off just because I'm playing pixel tanks.

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21 minutes ago, sr360 said:

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

If you cheat because there no real-world consequences, or because you're unlikely to get caught, or because the reward is worth it, dammit, then that speaks to your character. And let's not beat around the bush, this is cheating. I, for one, cannot compartmentalize my morals and ethics. As part of my job, I have to maintain an extremely high standard of ethical behavior, and I simply cannot turn that off just because I'm playing pixel tanks.

I feel like this is getting way too deep in real life morals in comparison to a video game.......

If we're talking about morality in video games then why are first person shooters around? Why is GTA around? 

It's even similar in comparing red shitter pubbies as idiots not only in game, but in real life as well.  So one rigged missions to get a reward tank, that means they have bad morals IRL too? Hopefully this is making sense, this reminds me of Steve Harvey when he said that atheists have no morals because they have no religion or some shit like that......

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18 minutes ago, sr360 said:

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

If you cheat because there no real-world consequences, or because you're unlikely to get caught, or because the reward is worth it, dammit, then that speaks to your character. And let's not beat around the bush, this is cheating. I, for one, cannot compartmentalize my morals and ethics. As part of my job, I have to maintain an extremely high standard of ethical behavior, and I simply cannot turn that off just because I'm playing pixel tanks.

LOL, that's just funny.

First off, I didn't "cheat".  Not because I'm against rigging (which is a much more correct way of calling it), but because I just can't be bothered to play this extremely frustrating game mode.  I've completed exactly 1 mission (number 2 I think) in the Steel Hunt missions and I won't be completing any others.

That being said.  If I cheat in a game I am therefore less trustworthy in my job?? LOOOOOL, aaaaalrighty then.  I work as an infrastructure architect, I know what stress is, I deal with clients and designers all the time stuck between the 2.  (not complaining here, just stating, I love my job).  But if I were too cheat in a game I can't work as effectively in real life because my character is compromised?
You have never glanced at your opponents cards during a card game (even if unsuccessful)?  Never lifted a domino tile and quickly switched?  Never went over the speed limit while driving (because here you would be cheating all other non speeding drivers)?  You don't even have any mods installed in WoT? ...

I'm not saying it's not frustrating, playing against a cheater.  But there is definately no connection between him/her in the game cheating and the other situations in their lives (of course not talking about psycho's here, just regular people like you and me).

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Interesting discussion. The philosophical divide seems to be between those who consider the rigging, in old-fashioned lawyer talk, malum in se  and those who consider it malum prohibitum. Acts malum in se are thise things that are inherently immoral and are banned by any civilized society: murder, rape, robbery, theft, etc. Acts malum prohibitum are not inherently immoral, but are banned anyway by a particular governing authority: drug offenses, immigration violations, etc. Often this latter category contains victimless offenses that are done by everyday good people. In other words, these are areas where it can often be said that "the law is an ass."

So what do we have here? Is anyone stealing? Are there any victims? These issues seem genuinely debatable.

Personally, the rigging is close enough to an immoral act that I wouldn't do it. But I am not particularly bent out of shape by the people who are doing it. Perhaps they have a rakish, pirate-like charm as they stick it to the man.

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I haven't played WoT in a month or two, but just looking at some of these missions its like T55/Obj260 only much worse. This has nothing to do with skill or commitment anymore. And all those retarded red and yellow shitters should keep their mouths shut, driving T55s and Objects while their avg damage in t8 tank barely reaches 1K - seems legit.

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If there were a way to guarantee that only riggers would end up in matches together, I would give zero shits. 

As is, it sucks for anyone just looking to play the mode who gets stuck with everyone else in the match working together, regardless of team, so I give 1 shit out of a possible 100 shits

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6 hours ago, Razavn said:

I hate to use the "cliche" but those who support rigging seem to be using the whole, "But she asked for it mentality." The reward was SO good, and SO unobtainable naturally, that we just HAD to use an underhanded method to obtain it.

It's quite a stretch to compare collusion in a video game to rape.  A more appropriate comparison would be to non-reckless speeding over the limit.  I'm not aware of anyone on the planet who's never driven even slightly over the limit.

2 hours ago, sr360 said:

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

If you cheat because there no real-world consequences, or because you're unlikely to get caught, or because the reward is worth it, dammit, then that speaks to your character. And let's not beat around the bush, this is cheating. I, for one, cannot compartmentalize my morals and ethics. As part of my job, I have to maintain an extremely high standard of ethical behavior, and I simply cannot turn that off just because I'm playing pixel tanks.

I would ask you if you have ever driven over the speed limit?  I would consider speeding more immoral/dangerous that collusion in video games as there could be real world consequences (injury/death).
 

19 minutes ago, Kramburglar said:

If there were a way to guarantee that only riggers would end up in matches together, I would give zero shits. 

As is, it sucks for anyone just looking to play the mode who gets stuck with everyone else in the match working together, regardless of team, so I give 1 shit out of a possible 100 shits

If the riggers were not playing then there would be almost nobody to play Rampage with on the NA servers.  Only on the first few days was I able to get a match without waiting in queue forever.  After that everyone gave up when they realized it was unfun/credit losing/impossible missions.

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2 minutes ago, engineered said:

It's quite a stretch to compare collusion in a video game to rape.  A more appropriate comparison would be to non-reckless speeding over the limit.  I'm not aware of anyone on the planet who's never driven even slightly over the limit.

I would ask you if you have ever driven over the speed limit?  I would consider speeding more immoral/dangerous that collusion in video games as there could be real world consequences (injury/death).
 

If the riggers were not playing then there would be almost nobody to play Rampage with on the NA servers.  Only on the first few days was I able to get a match without waiting in queue forever.  After that everyone gave up when they realized it was unfun/credit losing/impossible missions.

Your speeding analogy kind of falls flat right out of the gate. Not everyone rigs but you claim that you "aren't aware of anyone on the planet who's never driven even slightly over the limit." This would imply that EVERYONE rigs which is patently false.

If no one is playing Rampage than good riddance to it, it doesn't mean it becomes open season to cheat. Let the flunkies at WG realize they fucked up in making an incredibly tedious and unfun game mode. 

I'm kind of going to do a small digression here.

Being a unicum is supposed to be the pinnacle of being a WoT player. It means your skills, have surpassed those of the average player that is almost seems like magic (hax!) to them. What then did so many good players and unicums do? Resort to cheating over a stupid game mode with a tank as the prize. This is something you expect from far worse players. We are supposed to be better than them and instead all they see is massive cheating by the "uniscums."

"But so and so cheated to get the T55A and 260!!!" you might cry. You know what? Fuck those guys too. We are supposed to be the paragons in WoT, we are supposed to be better than this.

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4 minutes ago, Razavn said:

Your speeding analogy kind of falls flat right out of the gate. Not everyone rigs but you claim that you "aren't aware of anyone on the planet who's never driven even slightly over the limit." This would imply that EVERYONE rigs which is patently false.

If no one is playing Rampage than good riddance to it, it doesn't mean it becomes open season to cheat. Let the flunkies at WG realize they fucked up in making an incredibly tedious and unfun game mode. 

I'm kind of going to do a small digression here.

Being a unicum is supposed to be the pinnacle of being a WoT player. It means your skills, have surpassed those of the average player that is almost seems like magic (hax!) to them. What then did so many good players and unicums do? Resort to cheating over a stupid game mode with a tank as the prize. This is something you expect from far worse players. We are supposed to be better than them and instead all they see is massive cheating by the "uniscums."

"But so and so cheated to get the T55A and 260!!!" you might cry. You know what? Fuck those guys too. We are supposed to be the paragons in WoT, we are supposed to be better than this.

I wasn't suggesting that everyone rigs.  My analogy was pointing out that the "crime" of rigging is more comparable to speeding than to rape (in terms of morality and harm to others).

 

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9 minutes ago, engineered said:

I wasn't suggesting that everyone rigs.  My analogy was pointing out that the "crime" of rigging is more comparable to speeding than to rape (in terms of morality and harm to others).

 

So what is wrong with my analogy?

This isn't exactly a victim-less crime, and even if we go for your speeding analogy it would instead be "Reckless speeding" not "Non-reckless."

"Rigging" is indeed a crime in game, a fairly serious one too, done by people because they just can't abide by the rules or find them too stifling. Also there are victims here, every person who wants to play the game legitimately has to deal with his/her experience being ruined by those who seek to rig. I've seen replays of people being tk'ed just so they don't interfere with the riggers. That seem like a "victim-less crime" to you?

How would you like it if every game your own pubbie team decided to execute you so they can play the way they like without having to deal with your "interference" in trying to win?

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5 minutes ago, Razavn said:

So what is wrong with my analogy?

This isn't exactly a victim-less crime, and even if we go for your speeding analogy it would instead be "Reckless speeding" not "Non-reckless."

"Rigging" is indeed a crime in game, a fairly serious one too, done by people because they just can't abide by the rules or find them too stifling. Also there are victims here, every person who wants to play the game legitimately has to deal with his/her experience being ruined by those who seek to rig. I've seen replays of people being tk'ed just so they don't interfere with the riggers. That seem like a "victim-less crime" to you?

How would you like it if every game your own pubbie team decided to execute you so they can play the way they like without having to deal with your "interference" in trying to win?

What's wrong with your analogy is, you're comparing "rape" to a group of guys being the only ones in a battle helping them to complete missions. One is a crime. The other isn't. Let me know where one will have a criminal indictment on their public record for stretching the rules of an online game. It certainly twerks the "morality" button, however, to push those boundaries within said game which is why we're having this discussion.

Perhaps no bigger indictment against the missions, is in the fact that on the test server for 9.13, many of the missions have their requirements CUT IN HALF. HALF. HALF. The rules ARE too stifling, and War-Gaming put out a tier 10 tank which is perhaps the strongest of ALL the tier 10 mediums in the game on the NA server which doesn't have the server population to accomplish those missions without planning on the part of a group of guys to get said missions done.

As far as pubbies deciding to execute me every game: You and I have Relic tags. The pubbie hate couldn't get any stronger for us unless we were in FAME on the EU server. But, they dont interfere more than before. So, its a pointless situation to speculate upon.

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