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Just now, TheMarine0341 said:

What's wrong with your analogy is, you're comparing "rape" to a group of guys being the only ones in a battle helping them to complete missions. One is a crime. The other isn't. Let me know where one will have a criminal indictment on their public record for stretching the rules of an online game. It certainly twerks the "morality" button, however, to push those boundaries within said game which is why we're having this discussion.

Perhaps no bigger indictment against the missions, is in the fact that on the test server for 9.13, many of the missions have their requirements CUT IN HALF. HALF. HALF. The rules ARE too stifling, and War-Gaming put out a tier 10 tank which is perhaps the strongest of ALL the tier 10 mediums in the game on the NA server which doesn't have the server population to accomplish those missions without planning on the part of a group of guys to get said missions done.

As far as pubbies deciding to execute me every game: You and I have Relic tags. The pubbie hate couldn't get any stronger for us unless we were in FAME on the EU server. But, they dont interfere more than before. So, its a pointless situation to speculate upon.

You seem to be missing my point.

Rape is a crime in real life and typically committed, imo, because the person thought it would be "too hard" to try and have sex with the person legitimately.

Rigging is a crime in WoT done because a person thinks it would be "too hard" to get the reward legitimately?

See the similarity?

 

None of you "had" to rig the game or even play the game-mode. Based off the 260 mission changes everyone should have realized, "Yeah WG will have to change these missions." Instead people decided to STILL try and complete them and resorted to underhanded methods to do so. You are again doing the whole "WG is asking for it," part of my analogy. "The rules are stifling but the tank is SOOOO good that I just HAVE to have it." You don't see any problem with this?

I don't get a lot of pubbie hate (I do a bit but eh). What I'm trying to say, and what you seemed to ignore is this. Those "pubbies" in a rigged D/SH match get treated like the "unicum" in my example. They are hurting the "fun" of you guys rigging and as such, are tk'd and removed from the fight. How do you think you would feel in a random game if the majority of your pubbie team (compared to the riggers in D/SH) decided to immediately remove you from the game so they could play how they like?

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If only there was a mode that WG could add to have missions in where every single human player was supposed to work together against opponents that couldn't be colluded with.

They could call it PvD...no wait, that's not right.  PvF?  No, that's not it either...oh well, maybe it just doesn't exist.  If it did I'm sure it would be added by now....

1 minute ago, Razavn said:

Rape is a crime in real life and typically committed, imo, because the person thought it would be "too hard" to try and have sex with the person legitimately.

 

This is off topic, but rape is more often about power.  If someone just wanted to get laid, they'd get a hooker.  So maybe prostitution would be a better analogy 

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4 minutes ago, Kramburglar said:

If only there was a mode that WG could add to have missions in where every single human player was supposed to work together against opponents that couldn't be colluded with.

They could call it PvD...no wait, that's not right.  PvF?  No, that's not it either...oh well, maybe it just doesn't exist.  If it did I'm sure it would be added by now....

This is off topic, but rape is more often about power.  If someone just wanted to get laid, they'd get a hooker.  So maybe prostitution would be a better analogy 

Ironically this just might support my argument more.

People rig as they want the "power" of the T-22 no? After all it is justified as it is too hard to get and "perhaps the strongest of ALL of the Tier 10 mediums in the game."

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4 minutes ago, Razavn said:

Rape is a crime in real life and typically committed, imo, because the person thought it would be "too hard" to try and have sex with the person legitimately.

Rigging is a crime in WoT done because a person thinks it would be "too hard" to get the reward legitimately?

See the similarity?

No. Rape is about depravity and power over another. Sex is with hookers, a gf, a hookup, or your spouse.

"Rigging" in WOT for something which is NOT a competition (which, King Alphyn and Type 59s was about) but to grind out a tank with impossible to complete missions given the US server size is something else

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Just now, Razavn said:

Ironically this just might support my argument more.

People rig as they want the "power" of the T-22 no?

Possibly, though I'd still be uncomfortable comparing something that can ruin a person's life to the mild annoyance of being TK'd in a videogame

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11 hours ago, The_direwolf said:

Tbh the mode is so awful i cannot even be bothered rigging. .

pretty much this

Just now, dualmaster333 said:

Am I the only one who approves of rigging because it is a giant "Fuck You" to Wargaming?

Hadn't, uh, really thought about it that much.  Do you have a newsletter one can subscribe to?

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10 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

No. Rape is about depravity and power over another. Sex is with hookers, a gf, a hookup, or your spouse.

"Rigging" in WOT for something which is NOT a competition (which, King Alphyn and Type 59s was about) but to grind out a tank with impossible to complete missions given the US server size is something else

Rigging is about power over another, namely that the T-22 is, in your own words, "perhaps the strongest of the Tier 10 mediums."

I know all about hard missions, I got the OB260 BEFORE they changed the missions and I got it without rigging, count-ins, etc.

I saw right off the bat that these were impossible missions. Rather than cheat to complete them then, I reasoned, correctly, that WG would reduce the difficulty. I don't cheat, whether it be in real life or in a video game, that so many people thought, and still think it is okay to do so, makes me kind of sad.

3 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

Comparing Rape to a video game is like comparing Slavery in the 1800's America to Student Athlete's not being paid by today's NCAA.

You seem to be, once again, missing the point. Am I calling you rapists? No.

Am I saying that "rigging" in WoT is a crime just as "rape" in real life is and done for (kind of) the same reasons? Yes.

Do you have anything to really refute my analogy or is everyone just squicked out that I used the "rape" word? 

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10 minutes ago, dualmaster333 said:

Am I the only one who approves of rigging because it is a giant "Fuck You" to Wargaming?

 

31 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

Perhaps no bigger indictment against the missions, is in the fact that on the test server for 9.13, many of the missions have their requirements CUT IN HALF. HALF. HALF. The rules ARE too stifling, and War-Gaming put out a tier 10 tank which is perhaps the strongest of ALL the tier 10 mediums in the game on the NA server which doesn't have the server population to accomplish those missions without planning on the part of a group of guys to get said missions done..

See the OP: "Wargaming owes me easier missions!"

In as simple English as is possible:

- The difficulty of the missions is not relevant.

- Whether Wargaming's past or present actions have made you upset is not relevant. 

- The abilities of the T-22 are not relevant.

- You do not have a license to cheat or ruin an entire game mode simply because you and your internet friends decided following the clearly-understood rules of the competition was impossible.

Garbad was banned for trolling pubbies and these Purple Poasters approve of mission rigging. This website gets better every day.

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3 hours ago, sr360 said:

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

I watch a cartoon for little girls and enjoy it :poona:

1 hour ago, Razavn said:

Being a unicum is supposed to be the pinnacle of being a WoT player. It means your skills, have surpassed those of the average player that is almost seems like magic (hax!) to them. What then did so many good players and unicums do? Resort to cheating over a stupid game mode with a tank as the prize. This is something you expect from far worse players. We are supposed to be better than them and instead all they see is massive cheating by the "uniscums."

"But so and so cheated to get the T55A and 260!!!" you might cry. You know what? Fuck those guys too. We are supposed to be the paragons in WoT, we are supposed to be better than this.

Wat? Being a unicum means being a better player, not human. There are shitters among red barons, greenies and unicums. 

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2 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

I watch a cartoon for little girls and enjoy it :poona:

Wat? Being a unicum means being a better player, not human. There are shitters among red barons, greenies and unicums. 

Do you mean "in-human?"

Of course I realize all players are human and subject to greed/etc. I just didn't expect so many good players, who should know better, to cheat.

They should have realized that WG would make the missions easier and that it is a breach of "fair play," which so many advocate, to rig missions like that. Cheating is something you expect from people who cannot compete due to their own lack of skills in order to try and make up for said lack. It typically isn't something you expect of players who are already at the top of the game.

 

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39 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

Comparing Rape to a video game is like comparing Slavery in the 1800's America to Student Athlete's not being paid by today's NCAA.

No that's just restricting an individual's right to work and make a living off a trade he or she is uniquely skilled and specialised in, in collusion with other organisation(s) (e.g. the NFL/NBA) who set artificial restrictions on entering their leagues in order to prop up the NCAA's aforementioned restrictions on trade and freedom to work, which in turn creates a monopoly. All whilst making vast profits off (virtually) free labour, including the marketing of 'student'-athletes image rights, which should be theirs to sell and market as they see fit in their individual capacity, provided they do not do so in breach of the IP rights of third parties (i.e. their university's image rights, such as 'team photos'), with any violations of these rules resulting in the NCAA preventing the respective athlete (let's drop the student part, shall we) from competing at all in their respective sport.

But no, not slavery.

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4 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

No that's just restricting an individual's right to work and make a living off a trade he or she is uniquely skilled and specialised in, in collusion with other organisation(s) (e.g. the NFL/NBA) who set artificial restrictions on entering their leagues in order to prop up the NCAA's aforementioned restrictions on trade and freedom to work, which in turn creates a monopoly. All whilst making vast profits off (virtually) free labour, including the marketing of 'student'-athletes image rights, which should be theirs to sell and market as they see fit in their individual capacity, provided they do not do so in breach of the IP rights of third parties (i.e. their university's image rights, such as 'team photos'), with any violations of these rules resulting in the NCAA preventing the respective athlete (let's drop the student part, shall we) from competing at all in their respective sport.

But no, not slavery.

Yes, exactly the same as being ripped from your home country at gun point, forced into inhumane living conditions while transported in the bowels of a ship, sold, forced to do labor, and executed for trying to escape. Yes, exactly the same as volunteering to be a student athlete

Im not even going to get into the shit I had to endure for being a volunteer in the USMC infantry

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6 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

But no, not slavery.

 

2 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

Yes, exactly the same as being ripped from your home country at gun point, forced into inhumane living conditions while transported in the bowels of a ship, sold, forced to do labor, and executed for trying to escape. Yes, exactly the same as volunteering to be a student athlete

Im not even going to get into the shit I had to endure for being a volunteer in the USMC infantry

Your post is irrelevant in light of what I wrote. I highlighted the relevant point for you, in case you missed it.

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Points I would make:

1, People hate rigging in this game by default because it has generally meant denying another player something s/he won legitimately. I'm still waiting for my Art of War reward where some shitter green 52 WR asswipe beat the purples in the PZ I by 200 XP. That cheating twat stole a Type 59 from some one. In this instance rigging doesn't deny another player a tank, it merely creates more tanks. So I give about a third the fuck I would give for rigging Art of War stuff. Utilitarianism ftw.

2, WG made these missions absurd. They keep doing this shit to the players and players keep jumping through the hoops. It's actually pretty goddamn obnoxious. WG makes all these shitty contests and missions that rely on enragingly frustrating requirements to keep players locked in a psychological prison of repetitive behavior like a gambler or rat in a box. Some people saw how high the hoop was and just cut the string instead, that's still better than being WG's money pinata lab rat.

3, Fuck WG for making a Skinner box reward tank OP. So stupid.

4, That said, I personally still never cheat in any way at anything, ever. Because at the end of the day pubbie tears are the most delicious when they are true and pure, when hackusations always bear the bitter sting of falsehood and buttmadery. Or in less silly terms: I reserve my rule bending only for serious situations where the ends justifies the means, and only as much as needed. It becomes to easy to justify actions if you make a habit of it. You can look at it both ways: it's trivial, so who cares? But then, if you can't restrain yourself when the subject is trivial why would any one trust you when the subject really matters?

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5 minutes ago, Razavn said:

Do you mean "in-human?"

Are you referring to use of word "shitter"?

9 minutes ago, Razavn said:

Of course I realize all players are human and subject to greed/etc. I just didn't expect so many good players, who should know better, to cheat.

On the other hand we don't know how many average players playing Rampage are (were?) trying to get T-22 via rigging. 

10 minutes ago, Razavn said:

They should have realized that WG would make the missions easier and that it is a breach of "fair play," which so many advocate, to rig missions like that. Cheating is something you expect from people who cannot compete due to their own lack of skills in order to try and make up for said lack. It typically isn't something you expect of players who are already at the top of the game.

Well, current missions are so hard that even top players don't have enough skill to finish them. Of course they should boycott Rampage and keep playing randoms and CW/SH - it's the only reasonable solution for crap that WG gave us all.

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18 minutes ago, Razavn said:

Do you mean "in-human?"

 

Think he meant "Being a unicum means being a better player, not a better human".

I had to read it a couple of times.

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11 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

Are you referring to use of word "shitter"?

On the other hand we don't know how many average players playing Rampage are (were?) trying to get T-22 via rigging. 

Well, current missions are so hard that even top players don't have enough skill to finish them. Of course they should boycott Rampage and keep playing randoms and CW/SH - it's the only reasonable solution for crap that WG gave us all.

You posted this, "Being a unicum means being a better player, not human." I was asking if you meant "in-human" as "human" in this sense doesn't make any contextual sense. 

The average players also trying to rig should be punished. No one is saying (at least I don't think so), "Oh only ban the unicums who are rigging not the others." I don't care if it is for the T-22 or T55, 260, etc if you cheat you should be punished. Visibility wise it just looks really bad for the good players.

Unicums/good players make up what, like the top 1% of players? It seems that a large portion of that 1% are "fine" with cheating to get the reward tank. While I'm positive bad/average players are also rigging and that, overall, there are probably more of them, I would say a far less percentage of those players are cheating compared to goods/unis.

Yes they should have just boycotted the mode, or, if they were masochists, tried to complete what missions they could and "play for fun." Instead they decided to cheat and rig missions instead.

As for punishments...I saw some ridiculous notion that rigging players should be permabanned, I disagree. I think instead they should get a week account ban, be stripped of the tank, and be barred from earning any other mission tanks.

4 minutes ago, woe2you said:

Think he meant "Being a unicum means being a better player, not a better human".

I had to read it a couple of times.

That does make more sense. I thought he was going for "Being a unicum means being a better player, not being in-human." In-human being, immune to temptation, etc.

 

 

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Here is my opinion on said tank.

Can it take 420mm pen frontally? If not it's bad. And you should feel bad for playing WoT over Fo4, SWBF, JC3, or R6S.

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19 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

It becomes to easy to justify actions if you make a habit of it. You can look at it both ways: it's trivial, so who cares? But then, if you can't restrain yourself when the subject is trivial why would any one trust you when the subject really matters?

This is a variation on the point I made, and a point I agree with. 

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All i hope is that WG nerfs the crap out of it next patch, im sure they know only riggers got it so far + its a gift and not prem, with IS7 terrain stats and T34 gun handling it should be balance in a proper way.

Or they simply ban everyone for a month or 2

But i would be both suprised (and dissapointed) if this doesnt have sort of consequences in one way or another

ps: like the guy who managed to get an tier 9 in a tier 8 team battles, he got a perma-ban :P

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/12/28/team-battles-with-tier-9-and-10-tanks-permaban/

Today, a bug was detected in the 7/42 code, allowing under certain conditions to use tier 9 and 10 tanks in team battles. I assume the same bug probably appeared on EU and US server too, since the patch was the same. The bug will be hotfixed, but according to the Russian developer, accounts abusing this bug will be permabanned (a few Russians already were actually, a list of who was publicly displayed for once). So… just don’t do it.

So if WG fucks up, you exploit, you can still be perma-banned, GG, i doubt they perma ban for this, but its not unlikely WG will do something *controbersial* (like nerfing it to crap, removing it, reseting the missions of all-riggers + making it impossible to participate again + making missions super simple so everyone gets it except riggers etc)

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