Jump to content
andepans

Everyone Has a Price

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

 

Your team is comprised of fellow riggers who are helping you get your tank. how is that you abandoning them?

All of them?  No randoms are on your team?  Not one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

 

Your team is comprised of fellow riggers who are helping you get your tank. how is that you abandoning them?

Just ignore florb for a minute and take a little step back; 

 

5 minutes ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

it is not wrong if cheaters are 99% of the people who play the mode, at this point I consider it as ethical as power leveling.

>Hur durr It's not wrong if everyone else is doing it

Seriously who the hell thinks this way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Flaksmith said:

Just ignore florb for a minute and take a little step back; 

 

>Hur durr It's not wrong if everyone else is doing it

Seriously who the hell thinks this way?

People who loot during natural disasters and such seem to believe that.

"Well, there is just a small chance of there being consequences, I can get stuff without putting in the work, and everyone else is doing it! So why shouldn't I get myself a new flat-screen!"

This isn't comparable to someone stealing food because they are starving. You don't NEED the damn T-22, you WANT it and that has provided riggers with enough justification to break the rules. People keep saying "but it is just a video game" but if you feel the need to compromise your fair play principals over "just a video game," than perhaps what else are you willing to compromise them for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Rexxie said:

This is honestly one of the most interesting threads this month, please don't be shitters about it existing.

How is it interesting? Nobody will address the obvious hypocrisy. Unless you mean the entertainment value at watching your community cannibalize itself while criticizing onlookers for their judgment?

Otherwise this thread is a melancholy recreation of KingAlphyn's pubbies' logic:

1) cheating is not wrong if you don't get caught. Good work Wotlabs (oops there goes my pretentious dipshit alarm.)

2) cheating is wrong, but "fuck you all" (Carbon;)

2a) cheating is wrong, but the relevant issue is whether cheating is only analogous to a minor crime, because committing minor offenses is not wrong (engineered;)

3) colluding with the enemy team to game the system for automatic mission completion, while simultaneously ruining the game mode for legitimate players, is not, in fact, cheating, and the OP should stop imposing his moral relativism on us (DustyGator;) But at least KingAlphyn did not destroy the entire stronghold mode for all players. 

3a) colluding with the enemy team to game the system for automatic mission completion, while simultaneously ruining the game mode for legitimate players, is a victimless crime because legitimate players have decided to stop playing for an unexplained reason that is not related to mission rigging (1n Soviet Russia;)

4) purple poaster tactic "ignore every argument and bring up slavery and/or sex." (Marine_;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, andepans said:

How is it interesting?

It's interesting because it's an insight into how the wotlabs (and, in a broader sense, the high level/competitive) community regards this kind of thing, as well as how they either justify or condemn it.

You can say what you want about whether or not the arguments are solid, on point, or even logical, but to me discussion is at the very least an interesting read. Not even in the "haha i like watching a trainwreck" way, either - it's just a topic I've been watching all day just to read the replies (well, minus the rape banter).

More importantly, the amount of "lol shit topic"/"lol shit game" replies on this website is just inane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

it is not wrong if cheaters are 99% of the people who play the mode, at this point I consider it as ethical as power leveling.

Quote

 

1. The Golden Rationalization, or “Everybody does it”

This rationalization has been used to excuse ethical misconduct since the beginning of civilization. It is based on the flawed assumption that the ethical nature of an act is somehow improved by the number of people who do it, and if “everybody does it,” then it is implicitly all right for you to do it as well: cheat on tests, commit adultery, lie under oath, use illegal drugs, persecute Jews, lynch blacks. Of course, people who use this “reasoning” usually don’t believe that what they are doing is right because “everybody does it.” They usually are arguing that they shouldn’t be singled out for condemnation if “everybody else” isn’t

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me this isn't even the climax.

 

WG will inevitably cave into public pressure and start banning.

And when that happens, since pretty much everyone rigged to get the tank(Although I still believe at least 1 in 1000 players got it "legit" via skill and ridiculous luck), it would be interesting to see the relationship between the Banned and the Unscathed.

 

Oh, and how many people will say "I got it legit and still got banned, but i accidentally deleted my replays".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reached the point where I don't care if anyone riggs the missions. If they would have done it, when the missions would be doable I probably would. But at this point I don't. 

I see this rigging even as some kind of protest. The community gives WG just a big "fuck you". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Razavn said:

You seem to be missing my point.

Rape is a crime in real life and typically committed, imo, because the person thought it would be "too hard" to try and have sex with the person legitimately.

Rigging is a crime in WoT done because a person thinks it would be "too hard" to get the reward legitimately?

See the similarity?

 

1 hour ago, Razavn said:

People who loot during natural disasters and such seem to believe that.

"Well, there is just a small chance of there being consequences, I can get stuff without putting in the work, and everyone else is doing it! So why shouldn't I get myself a new flat-screen!"

This isn't comparable to someone stealing food because they are starving. You don't NEED the damn T-22, you WANT it and that has provided riggers with enough justification to break the rules. People keep saying "but it is just a video game" but if you feel the need to compromise your fair play principals over "just a video game," than perhaps what else are you willing to compromise them for?

You seem like a reasonable guy Raz. I'm not gonna pretend like we are BFFs but from what time I've spent playing/talking with you, you've come off as one of the least immature and spergy people in a clan full of them.

With that out of the way,

Stop. Just Stop.

I'd hope you don't need me to explain to you how tasteless and utterly juvenile it is to compare minor of trangressions in a pixel tank game to rape and looting.

Especially when there are tons of more apt metaphors (see Abandonware). If you want to have a reasonable discussion, choose a tactic other than fear-mongering.
 

25 minutes ago, andepans said:

How is it interesting? Nobody will address the obvious hypocrisy. Unless you mean the entertainment value at watching your community cannibalize itself while criticizing onlookers for their judgment?

1) cheating is not wrong if you don't get caught. Good work Wotlabs (oops there goes my pretentious dipshit alarm.)

3) colluding with the enemy team to game the system for automatic mission completion, while simultaneously ruining the game mode for legitimate players, is not, in fact, cheating, and the OP should stop imposing his moral relativism on us (DustyGator;) But at least KingAlphyn did not destroy the entire stronghold mode for all players. 

 

My post

694502330614137160.png

Hint, my expletive laden tirade wasn't necessarily directed at the points you were trying to argue for but rather how you presented them. I didn't call you a pretentious dipshit for thinking t-22 mission coordination is immoral. I think you're a pretentious dipshit because the way you tried to present your thoughts in the OP was utter trash.

Don't pretend like you actually care what other people think. An open-minded person who wants to foster a level-headed discussion about a sensitive topic doesn't charge in swinging their dick at everyone in the room. Someone who needs to hides their superiority complex behind smarm and smugness does.

 

16 hours ago, sr360 said:

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching

If you cheat because there no real-world consequences, or because you're unlikely to get caught, or because the reward is worth it, dammit, then that speaks to your character. And let's not beat around the bush, this is cheating. I, for one, cannot compartmentalize my morals and ethics. As part of my job, I have to maintain an extremely high standard of ethical behavior, and I simply cannot turn that off just because I'm playing pixel tanks.

The true test of a man's character is what he does when his internal compass points away from the wind.

See, I can spew empty pseudo-scholarly sayings as well.

 

A lot of people are probably going to (or already have in case of Andepans) interpret the now two posts I've made in this thread as evidence that I am wrong/immoral/bad/literally Hitler Serb. They'll point to me and think that I'm just trying to alleviate my guilty conscience by arguing that what people (including me) have been doing isn't cheating.

 

Child, please.

I'm not arguing with Raz/Andepan/sr360 because I disagree with their opinions. (And yes, that is all they are. Stop pretending like yelling your point over the internet with "authority" makes you "right".)  I'm picking them out because their attempts at reasoning and arguing are incredibly immature.

 

Thinking that the t-22 free-for-all is cheating is a perfectly okay opinion. Throwing that around that opinion as if it is some unassailable truth is close-minded, arrogant and deserving of disdain. Making the statement that this coordinated "rigging" is cheating and shoving it down people's throats isn't an argument, it is the lack of one.

 

10 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

It's interesting because it's an insight into how the wotlabs (and, in a broader sense, the high level/competitive) community regards this kind of thing, as well as how they either justify or condemn it.

You can say what you want about whether or not the arguments are solid, on point, or even logical, but to me discussion is at the very least an interesting read. Not even in the "haha i like watching a trainwreck" way, either - it's just a topic I've been watching all day just to read the replies (well, minus the rape banter).

More importantly, the amount of "lol shit topic"/"lol shit game" replies on this website is just inane.

I'm fully behind this sentiment. There's been a shocking decline in activity on wotlabs in recent months. I think at this point the upcoming changes sub-forum is the most active one.

Also, I kinda feel bad about how vicious and aimless my first post. Kinda because as far as I'm concerned, andepan deserves to be bitched at for starting such an interesting topic off on the worst foot possible. I'll take back my meanness as soon as he takes as he takes off his Supeior Hat of Conceit (zomg smexy loot).

And despite all the huffing and puffing (thanks for reading through this novel of a post), I still haven't laid out my thoughts on all of this because I am still forming them (but it will almost certainly be in shades of grey. All fiddy of em). I'm fucking beat so that will have to wait until tomorrow. Please don't burn the house down before I get back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dustygator said:

 

You seem like a reasonable guy Raz. I'm not gonna pretend like we are BFFs but from what time I've spent playing/talking with you, you've come off as one of the least immature and spergy people in a clan full of them.

With that out of the way,

Stop. Just Stop.

I'd hope you don't need me to explain to you how tasteless and utterly juvenile it is to compare minor of trangressions in a pixel tank game to rape and looting.

Especially when there are tons of more apt metaphors (see Abandonware). If you want to have a reasonable discussion, choose a tactic other than fear-mongering.
 

My post

694502330614137160.png

Hint, my expletive laden tirade wasn't necessarily directed at the points you were trying to argue for but rather how you presented them. I didn't call you a pretentious dipshit for thinking t-22 mission coordination is immoral. I think you're a pretentious dipshit because the way you tried to present your thoughts in the OP was utter trash.

Don't pretend like you actually care what other people think. An open-minded person who wants to foster a level-headed discussion about a sensitive topic doesn't charge in swinging their dick at everyone in the room. Someone who needs to hides their superiority complex behind smarm and smugness does.

 

The true test of a man's character is what he does when his internal compass points away from the wind.

See, I can spew empty pseudo-scholarly sayings as well.

 

A lot of people are probably going to (or already have in case of Andepans) interpret the now two posts I've made in this thread as evidence that I am wrong/immoral/bad/literally Hitler Serb. They'll point to me and think that I'm just trying to alleviate my guilty conscience by arguing that what people (including me) have been doing isn't cheating.

 

Child, please.

I'm not arguing with Raz/Andepan/sr360 because I disagree with their opinions. (And yes, that is all they are. Stop pretending like yelling your point over the internet with "authority" makes you "right".)  I'm picking them out because their attempts at reasoning and arguing are incredibly immature.

 

Thinking that the t-22 free-for-all is cheating is a perfectly okay opinion. Throwing that around that opinion as if it is some unassailable truth is close-minded, arrogant and deserving of disdain. Making the statement that this coordinated "rigging" is cheating and shoving it down people's throats isn't an argument, it is the lack of one.

 

I'm fully behind this sentiment. There's been a shocking decline in activity on wotlabs in recent months. I think at this point the upcoming changes sub-forum is the most active one.

Also, I kinda feel bad about how vicious and aimless my first post. Kinda because as far as I'm concerned, andepan deserves to be bitched at for starting such an interesting topic off on the worst foot possible. I'll take back my meanness as soon as he takes as he takes off his Supeior Hat of Conceit (zomg smexy loot).

And despite all the huffing and puffing (thanks for reading through this novel of a post), I still haven't laid out my thoughts on all of this because I am still forming them (but it will almost certainly be in shades of grey. All fiddy of em). I'm fucking beat so that will have to wait until tomorrow. Please don't burn the house down before I get back.

Great post brother, I think this whole debate can be broken down to rigging really is a victim less crime, 100% harmless. I think it shows how  wg is really playing us, getting all caught up over an OP tank that should not be a PM tank and not focusing on the real issues with the game and being more concerned with the morality of our fellow players. 

Bottom line: System is shit, Just because I would rig a mission does not mean I would rob a bank to LOL EZ MODE MONEY, and lastly life aint fair we arent all super unicums at tanks or real life. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Shrewarmies said:

On a side note, for the non-initiated, does anyone have a link to the OP's context RE KingAlphyn?

 

 

Link here for SH collusion and here for Type 59 rigging. The Type 59 one is part two of two, but there is a link in the post that leads back to part one.

IIRC Alphyn got banned for a few days and barred from ever entering/winning any future WG contests/competitions.

So it isn't that much of a stretch to think the same punishment applies for rigging Rampage either.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

Great post brother, I think this whole debate can be broken down to rigging really is a victim less crime, 100% harmless. I think it shows how  wg is really playing us, getting all caught up over an OP tank that should not be a PM tank and not focusing on the real issues with the game and being more concerned with the morality of our fellow players. 

Bottom line: System is shit, Just because I would rig a mission does not mean I would rob a bank to LOL EZ MODE MONEY, and lastly life aint fair we arent all super unicums at tanks or real life. 

And yet the fact remains, rigging matches is cheating.

2 hours ago, dustygator said:

Don't pretend like you actually care what other people think. An open-minded person who wants to foster a level-headed discussion about a sensitive topic doesn't charge in swinging their dick at everyone in the room. Someone who needs to hides their superiority complex behind smarm and smugness does.

 

The true test of a man's character is what he does when his internal compass points away from the wind.

See, I can spew empty pseudo-scholarly sayings as well.

 

A lot of people are probably going to (or already have in case of Andepans) interpret the now two posts I've made in this thread as evidence that I am wrong/immoral/bad/literally Hitler Serb. They'll point to me and think that I'm just trying to alleviate my guilty conscience by arguing that what people (including me) have been doing isn't cheating.

 

 

I'm not arguing with Raz/Andepan/sr360 because I disagree with their opinions. (And yes, that is all they are. Stop pretending like yelling your point over the internet with "authority" makes you "right".)  I'm picking them out because their attempts at reasoning and arguing are incredibly immature.

 

Thinking that the t-22 free-for-all is cheating is a perfectly okay opinion. Throwing that around that opinion as if it is some unassailable truth is close-minded, arrogant and deserving of disdain. Making the statement that this coordinated "rigging" is cheating and shoving it down people's throats isn't an argument, it is the lack of one.

It is cheating; that isn't an opinion, it's an objective fact.  It is a violation of the rules, and therefore by definition it is cheating.  There is no possible way you could argue rigging matches is not in fact a violation of the rules.

What sr360 said isn't "empty pseudo-scholarly sayings", it's a long-standing statement about what constitutes a person's character.  People who play games and try to make their own team lose to help a buddy on the other team score are as a matter of objective fact, cheating at the game and are doing something unethical.

Defending rigging matches as somehow not being a violation of the rules beggars the imagination.  The sheer levels of doublethink required would make Orwell's head spin; spinning pretzel-logic theories to somehow justify breaking the rules of the game just to get some prize you wanted is absolutely perverse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

And yet the fact remains, rigging matches is cheating.

It is cheating; that isn't an opinion, it's an objective fact.  It is a violation of the rules, and therefore by definition it is cheating.  There is no possible way you could argue rigging matches is not in fact a violation of the rules.

What sr360 said isn't "empty pseudo-scholarly sayings", it's a long-standing statement about what constitutes a person's character.  People who play games and try to make their own team lose to help a buddy on the other team score are as a matter of objective fact, cheating at the game and are doing something unethical.

Defending rigging matches as somehow not being a violation of the rules beggars the imagination.  The sheer levels of doublethink required would make Orwell's head spin; spinning pretzel-logic theories to somehow justify breaking the rules of the game just to get some prize you wanted is absolutely perverse.

Why you have be mad?!  Is just game !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, dustygator said:

 

 

I'm not arguing with Raz/Andepan/sr360 because I disagree with their opinions. (And yes, that is all they are. Stop pretending like yelling your point over the internet with "authority" makes you "right".)  I'm picking them out because their attempts at reasoning and arguing are incredibly immature.

 

Thinking that the t-22 free-for-all is cheating is a perfectly okay opinion. Throwing that around that opinion as if it is some unassailable truth is close-minded, arrogant and deserving of disdain. Making the statement that this coordinated "rigging" is cheating and shoving it down people's throats isn't an argument, it is the lack of one.

.

If you don't think that colluding with players on the enemy team over voice chat in order to achieve objectives is "cheating", then I'm not sure what to say. It is, after all, against the game rules. The game rules define what is and isn't cheating.

And that's a fact, not an opinion.

Beyond that, I'm disturbed at the fact that you think that asking people to behave in an ethical manner is "immature". 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok I just checked wot-news to see how many T-22 are already on the servers.

EU has 18, US has 44 and RU already has 1633,  The number of T22 on the russian server is just insane. I mean rly. Who even thinks they did the missions without rigging? But it is interessting to see you Murica guys have more than twice as much T22s than we Yurofags with I think a server population of 1/10. Is there even one guy on this server which plays the mission normal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, hall0 said:

Murica guys have more than twice as much T22s than we Yurofags

Is that because EU got bans for rigging and publicity from Rita while NA hasn't (or have they)?
 

I saw Purple_Stealth running one in a couple consecutive games yesterday. He was between 4k and 6k damage every time, but I suppose that could happen in a T-62A too. I did roll up his team pretty hard one round in my T110E3 on Ensk though.

:disco:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, monjardin said:

Is that because EU got bans for rigging and publicity from Rita while NA hasn't (or have they)?
 

Wasn't it only a week though, and they got to keep the tank?  If anything I would think that would embolden people.  Either you don't get caught, in which case nothing happens, or you do get caught in which case you take a week off and nothing happens

 

WG really needs to get their ass in gear and make a PvE mode that they can shove all the missions into, so collusion will be the goal instead of cheating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, hall0 said:

Ok I just checked wot-news to see how many T-22 are already on the servers.

EU has 18, US has 44 and RU already has 1633,  The number of T22 on the russian server is just insane. I mean rly. Who even thinks they did the missions without rigging? But it is interessting to see you Murica guys have more than twice as much T22s than we Yurofags with I think a server population of 1/10. Is there even one guy on this server which plays the mission normal?

Last night during Prime Time, I had to wait in que twice just to get a domination battle. The only people getting battles are those who are working together to get the tank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There seems to be something about a game being a video game that changes people's behavior. Of course rape analogies are not well-chosen. But what about analogies to board games like Monopoly or Bridge or Clue, to card game like bridge, or to a pick-up sports like basketball or touch football? We would all probably get bent out of shape if fellow players engaged in collusive behavior. These examples are just games. But who would want to play them if others are colluding?

Absolutely true story from Thanksgiving weekend: I was playing Monopoly with four of my nephews. When one player got a substantial advantage, three of the players tried to make a deal where one of then would pay the other two a dollar each and take over all their assets. Of course the three would then play together. Needless to say, there was quite an uproar, with the leading player, me, and the kibitzers protesting vehemently.

Now I know that the above analogies are not perfect either because they do not involve games run by a huge, profit-making third party. (And granted, there are probably lots of other distinctions.) Still, I daresay that even in a face-to-face competition hosted by a profit-making entity, like paintball wars or something, we would all get upset if supposed opponents were colluding.

But a video game seems to pull different levers in many people's minds than a face-to-face competition. Maybe it is the anonymity? Even clan members -- who form personal relationships that make the game more like a face-to-face competition -- still, as a rule,  maintain their internet anonymity.

I am not saying anyone is a bad person here. There may be reasons why an mmo internet game like WOT should be viewed differently than traditional face-to-face games. And it is just a game. And the mode does suck. And Serb and his minions may very well be rapacious capitalist bastards. Bla bla bla.

But I personally have trouble seeing why an internet team game should be any different than a face-to-face team game. I wonder if there is a generational divide. I grew up in the pre-computer era. I have a hard time viewing WOT through  anything but the prism of the face-to-face games that I grew up with. Maybe younger people grew up with a different set of conventions?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Razavn said:

You posted this, "Being a unicum means being a better player, not human." I was asking if you meant "in-human" as "human" in this sense doesn't make any contextual sense. 

I should negrep myself for writing such a incomprehensible post... I'm sorry for that but at least woe2you deciphered it. 

Anyway I had some discussions on EU official forum about unicums and their manners and morality. I'm amazed that so many pubbies thinks unicums are are better humans - more intelligent, kind, righteous than Joe average of WoT. I'm against such opinion and I don't think that unicums should be treated in a different way than any other players. 

23 hours ago, Razavn said:

The average players also trying to rig should be punished. No one is saying (at least I don't think so), "Oh only ban the unicums who are rigging not the others." I don't care if it is for the T-22 or T55, 260, etc if you cheat you should be punished. Visibility wise it just looks really bad for the good players.

Unicums/good players make up what, like the top 1% of players? It seems that a large portion of that 1% are "fine" with cheating to get the reward tank. While I'm positive bad/average players are also rigging and that, overall, there are probably more of them, I would say a far less percentage of those players are cheating compared to goods/unis.

Yes they should have just boycotted the mode, or, if they were masochists, tried to complete what missions they could and "play for fun." Instead they decided to cheat and rig missions instead.

 Well, unicums are more aware of T-22's (CW, SH, maybe X tier ESL) potential and also way more organized than non-uni players. Most pubbies probably don't even know Rampage missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, I'll write a little more than my previous snide comment.  First I'll say that I haven't completed any of the missions via rigging (which is also the reason I haven't completed many).

As far as it being cheating, I'd say it's pretty hard to argue it isn't cheating. Although it is less clear because this doesn't really seem like a competition (like rigging the old XP contests were). But I'd say that it is essentially cheating. If you can agree that it is cheating, then some would say that it is always wrong and you are a bastard if you do it.

The best analogy I can come up with is driving laws. Breaking the law is wrong. Yet pretty much every time we drive we break the law. Didn't come to a complete stop at the sign? Lawbreaker. Went a few mph/kph over the speed limit? Lawbreaker. Similarly running a red light or driving drunk is breaking the law. Some of these rules we should really care about and enforce, some of these rules we probably shouldn't. So some of us probably view rigging as akin to rolling a stop sign on an empty street while others view it as running a red light or some more serious offense. Both technically break the law and could get you pulled over but only one of them is a serious concern.

I think this lies at the core of how one reacts to the rigging. If you find it at most a very minor offense, then there's a myriad of ways to justify the action.  Or you may think that any offense, no matter how small, it despicable and indicates a broken moral compass.

In my previous post is said that I "approve" of rigging, which probably wasn't the best choice of words. It'd be more accurate to say rigging doesn't bother me one bit. Sure, it's kinda underhanded but not (in my opinion, or course) unreasonable. As a separate note I find it humorous that WG failed so hard at their mission design and created something that is so easy to rig. But my laughter at WG as a company is a separate discussion entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kramburglar said:

Wasn't it only a week though, and they got to keep the tank?

That still sets mission completion back a week versus those not receiving a ban.

Also, it's probably easier to rig on NA since matches don't happen without organizing enough people to play one. So, you're almost guaranteed to have mostly colluders in any given match.

I'm saying this from personally not being able to get matches the few times that I've tried. I haven't attempted to count in with others myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, monjardin said:

That still sets mission completion back a week versus those not receiving a ban.

 

My mistake, I thought only people who'd gotten the tank already, by rigging, had been banned. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...