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Everyone Has a Price

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2 minutes ago, Kramburglar said:

My mistake, I thought only people who'd gotten the tank already, by rigging, had been banned. 

Well, that could be the case. I probably shouldn't even be commenting on this because I'm not "in the know." I'm just ticked off about WG's epic fail. So, I've been checking this thread periodically.

@dualmaster333 pretty much summed up my take on the matter in his last post. Rigging is cheating, but it's pretty damn near harmless cheating on NA because of the low population.

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I have attempted the missions once or twice only to fail hard. I haven't tried to get any help to do any missions, and to be perfectly honest. Despite seeing several T-22's out in the wild knowing that the owners likely got help it doesn't bother me. Why? Because even with rigging, it still took effort. Seeing people report back that trying to run the mode without count ins result in not getting a match makes it completely moot IMO.

 

So you have a T-22? Cool, wish I had one. Am I mad you have one and I don't, no. If is was upset about that then I'd have to be mad about all the other tanks that I cannot have (VK72, 907, M60, Type 59, blah blah blah).

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1 hour ago, dualmaster333 said:

In my previous post is said that I "approve" of rigging, which probably wasn't the best choice of words. It'd be more accurate to say rigging doesn't bother me one bit. Sure, it's kinda underhanded but not (in my opinion, or course) unreasonable. As a separate note I find it humorous that WG failed so hard at their mission design and created something that is so easy to rig. But my laughter at WG as a company is a separate discussion entirely.

The rigging bothers me when it effects the few random players attempting to play the mode. They're attempting to do it legit, and have to 'deal with the consequences' of being so unlucky to get in such a battle.

I doubt on the NA server theres a single person who has the T22 legit. None. I also don't care that they do have it. My biggest issue really is with WG not taking server size and the "ease" of rigging into consideration.

Now, if this were a competition which was being rigged, thats another issue altogether. But its simply another tier 10 which is available to everyone for the duration of the WOT life at this time for those who grind out the missions.

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WG should just add all the mission tanks to the tech trees as lateral offshoots of whatever tier they fall under (maybe for an inflated price if they want them to retain their ability to take any crew) and stop adding reward tanks until they get a PvE mode sorted out.

Instead of tanks, missions would give you "freebie" tokens that would let you instantly unlock any tank of your choice that's available for credits in the tree up to the tier of the tank it used to reward.

That way if people do rig, they're only getting something that everyone else can get anyway, but there is still a reason to do missions, since if there is a tier 10 in a god awful line, you could earn a freebie token via missions to skip right to it.

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36 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

The rigging bothers me when it effects the few random players attempting to play the mode. They're attempting to do it legit, and have to 'deal with the consequences' of being so unlucky to get in such a battle.

I doubt on the NA server theres a single person who has the T22 legit. None. I also don't care that they do have it. My biggest issue really is with WG not taking server size and the "ease" of rigging into consideration.

Now, if this were a competition which was being rigged, thats another issue altogether. But its simply another tier 10 which is available to everyone for the duration of the WOT life at this time for those who grind out the missions.

I see what you're saying about how getting the tank by rigging doesn't deny it to others because it's a missions reward tank, not a competition reward tank, and that's a valid distinction.

But the problem with the rigging has nothing to do with the reward tank, it has to do with the matches themselves.  I despise when people willingly throw a match to grab a bit of extra damage for themselves while the enemy caps out.  How do you think the randoms felt when they saw people on their team either (1) blocking them from shooting an opponent because they shared a clan, or (2) suicide rushing into an enemy's guns because they were in the same clan and were rigging the match?  It ruins the match even if you're on the winning team.

And for those who say "Random people aren't getting hurt by it because no randoms are playing the mode now", all that means is that rigging has destroyed the mode as a legit way of playing the game.

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As someone familiar with jumping through Wargaming's bullshit hoops (see, Object 260), I completed one mission and then said "Fuck this". It's lead to a great deal of not-stress, and I offer my comprehensive guide to you all.

Step 1) See mission tree is not feasible

Step 2) Don't do missions.

There. Easy. No stress, no complicated mental gymnastics about how the rules don't apply to you because of course your case is special, no having to do Rampage mode. Life is good.

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10 minutes ago, StranaMechty said:

As someone familiar with jumping through Wargaming's bullshit hoops (see, Object 260), I completed one mission and then said "Fuck this". It's lead to a great deal of not-stress, and I offer my comprehensive guide to you all.

Step 1) See mission tree is not feasible

Step 2) Don't do missions.

There. Easy. No stress, no complicated mental gymnastics about how the rules don't apply to you because of course your case is special, no having to do Rampage mode. Life is good.

BUTBUTBUT MAH PRECIOUS PIXELTONK!!!1

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It just got serious when you start bringing in pics of Ted Dibiase. I think for the most part rampage is like historical battles all over again. Except they dangled a great tank at the end of some mostly impossible missions for the craziness of the mode. I decided after about 10 battles that it just wasn't fun, not to mention the credit loss.

I also wonder why they made a contest for proving ground when there is absolutely no reason to play it if your account has more than 10 battles, WG just needs to learn that their players like making credits better than losing and giving everybody a tier 10 rental isn't a good idea, unless you are playing soccer.

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23 minutes ago, 8_Hussars said:

Among the many suggestions for possible remedies, make the T22sr only playable in Rampage mode.  

Oh God, that's like a punishment right out of Dante...

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On 12/3/2015, 11:05:22, Rexxie said:

It's interesting because it's an insight into how the wotlabs (and, in a broader sense, the high level/competitive) community regards this kind of thing, as well as how they either justify or condemn it.

You can say what you want about whether or not the arguments are solid, on point, or even logical, but to me discussion is at the very least an interesting read. Not even in the "haha i like watching a trainwreck" way, either - it's just a topic I've been watching all day just to read the replies (well, minus the rape banter).

More importantly, the amount of "lol shit topic"/"lol shit game" replies on this website is just inane.

In your opinion, which arguments justifying rigging are solid, on point, and logical?

As lead administrator how do you feel about a Purple Poaster using this forum to publicly invite visitors to the Wotlabs in-game chat channel for purposes of mission-rigging? 

Who is responsible for determining if a given thread has been created contrary to Wotlabs' rules and must be deleted? 

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4 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

Among the many suggestions for possible remedies, make the T22sr only playable in Rampage mode.  

Then you might as well remove the missions entirely, because no one will go for the tank. 

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1 minute ago, Staz211 said:

Then you might as well remove the missions entirely, because no one will go for the tank. 

A better suggestion would be to reduce the requirements to something actually feasible.

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24 minutes ago, andepans said:

In your opinion, which arguments justifying rigging are solid, on point, and logical?

As lead administrator how do you feel about a Purple Poaster using this forum to publicly invite visitors to the Wotlabs in-game chat channel for purposes of mission-rigging? 

Who is responsible for determining if a given thread has been created contrary to Wotlabs' rules and must be deleted? 

I'm not going to take a public stance on the issue, but I did like Dualmaster's last reply - even if it wasn't really justifying rigging.

I feel like said purple poster shouldn't do such a thing. It's against forum rules. The only reason such a post should exist would be because I (or the other staff) haven't noticed. What they do in the in-game chat channel is their own choice, but advertising breaking the rules (no matter how benign it may or may not be) on the forum is not acceptable.

Any of the mods or admin have that responsibility. If things haven't changed, all purples have that responsibility too, but only in their own board. It's been a while since I was a purple poster, so I'm not 100% sure what kind of permissions they currently have.

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37 minutes ago, FlorbFnarb said:

A better suggestion would be to reduce the requirements to something actually feasible.

I completely agree. Some of these missions are impossible to do honestly. 

They're just poorly structured to begin with. Take 15k dmg from 100m or less for example. In a 3k dpm tier 10, that is constantly firing the gun every single time it is loaded for 5 straight minutes, in a game mode that is 7 minutes long, with 100% pens and average damage rolls while always being less than a grid square away from an enemy tank that has enough HP for you to get a full damage roll on.

Yea, Im willing to put money on that no one play tested most of these missions, if any, before they were released. 

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2 minutes ago, Staz211 said:

I completely agree. Some of these missions are impossible to do honestly. 

They're just poorly structured to begin with. Take 15k dmg from 100m or less for example. In a 3k dpm tier 10, that is constantly firing the gun every single time it is fired for 5 straight minutes, in a game mode that is 7 minutes long, with 100% pens and average damage rolls while always being less than a grid square away from an enemy tank that has enough HP for you to get a full damage roll on.

Yea, Im willing to put money on that no one play tested most of these missions, if any, before they were released. 

Playtest?  It sounds like they didn't even do the math.  I understand that they want some harder missions so that even good players also have to get lucky, so that it takes a while to complete, but 15k damage is just an absurd requirement.

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7 hours ago, StranaMechty said:

As someone familiar with jumping through Wargaming's bullshit hoops (see, Object 260), I completed one mission and then said "Fuck this". It's lead to a great deal of not-stress, and I offer my comprehensive guide to you all.

Step 1) See mission tree is not feasible

Step 2) Don't do missions.

There. Easy. No stress, no complicated mental gymnastics about how the rules don't apply to you because of course your case is special, no having to do Rampage mode. Life is good.

This is all fine and good.  Right up until you rush Cliff middle with a group of 140s and get annihilated by a group of T-22s you don't have access to because you're living the good life. 

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Well, ninja mods deleted the best bits. Interested people can read the T-22 missions thread to see a half dozen other Purple Poasters admit to rigging and offer clues to the process as far back as the very day the patch dropped.

Edited by andepans

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20 minutes ago, BPX said:

This is all fine and good.  Right up until you rush Cliff middle with a group of 140s and get annihilated by a group of T-22s you don't have access to because you're living the good life. 

I would rather enjoy my time with this game on my own accord than have my time dictated by a distasteful company such as WG and virtual tanks.

Also, I don't find the T-22 to be OP enough in that it can break past the symptom of 15 v 15 matches and overcome sheer numbers. You will still lose games because your team melted and you were overwhelmed/overrun. You will still lose games because you played badly. 

It'll just happen less often, and not often enough that it'll make a significant difference unless you play the tank exclusively for thousands upon thousands of games.

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6 hours ago, BPX said:

This is all fine and good.  Right up until you rush Cliff middle with a group of 140s and get annihilated by a group of T-22s you don't have access to because you're living the good life. 

If this is truly the case and the determining factor if you win future clan wars or other similar events is how many T-22s you have then the rigging thing is even worse imo. Not only did you break game rules to get the tank but then the tank gives you an unfair advantage in all future events?

Is this tank really that op?

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On 5.12.2015, 13:58:21, Vettish said:

If this is truly the case and the determining factor if you win future clan wars or other similar events is how many T-22s you have then the rigging thing is even worse imo. Not only did you break game rules to get the tank but then the tank gives you an unfair advantage in all future events?

Is this tank really that op?

I think you didn't understand what BPX wanted to say. I doesn't really matter if the tank is "OP" or how much better it is than other t10 tanks. It's already enough if a tank is strong in one or two aspects when it comes to CW, against teams that are on a comparable skill level.

Imagine there wouldnt be a regular russian techtree

Mines CW match between two top clans and both callers decide to go for the hill. One team has access to russian t10 meds (bouncy turret - low profile) through this offical WG rigging contest, while the other team only can get their hands on the regular E50M, M48.  Who do you think gets the hill and who ll lose a whole bunch of t10 meds while trying and failing?

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On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2015‎ ‎8‎:‎13‎:‎39‎, Shifty_101st said:

Who the fuck cares about the rigging on the NA server.  It's an above average tank that can only be obtained through a gamemode that requires the server population of the RU server to do it honestly.  Unicums don't play that game mode anyway "for fun" we want the tank then we're done with that mode.

Besides the tank is still easy to kill........if you're not incompetent that is.

I dropped a neg on you.  I'll not go through all the others who think the same way.  No reason for a neg war.  Feel free to reciprocate.  I wanted to explain it.

That being said, this is one of the saddest episodes I've seen in WoT.  It's not world shaking, and no real need to get all emotional.  But it is simply stupid.  Taken in the context of a pixel tank game it's complete and utter crap.

Generally I tend to agree with "good" players in respect to this game.  How they play, how they take responsibility for their own actions (irony here).  I like that this site has a majority of straight shooters. 

However, my pixel tank persona is fucking dismayed at the asshattery on display from the supporters of this game rigging.  I should not have been surprised by this, but I was, and that's my problem.  Now I'm wiser and very much less impressed by this community.  That's the real shame of it actually.  I have no illusion these words will resonate with the riggers.  Doesn't matter really.  But it has to be said, because supporting weakness is no way to be.

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