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[massive wall of text, had to sit in train long time and f******n spoilers not working]

Since the last tier 9 ranking is old a new one, and since I own (and play) 21 of the 29 tier 9`s I think I can judge them fairly well. Another reason is that imo many people under or overrate certain tanks because of play style preferences (I’m sure I will also fall in this trap myself).

For this rating two things are important, solo play & platoon play, if your 100% platooning or 100% solo it might differ a bit, I assume that ``you`` play between 1/3 and 2/3 solo and 1/3 and 2/3 platoon. Rating is based pure for ``winpower``, damage and wn8 are thus not important, it’s about winning! In terms of importance: Firepower (inc gun depression, and gun handling / bloom) > Armour > Mobility > Soft stats (camo, view range module dmg). 
On a number scale it would be 10 > 6 > 5 > 3,  the gun is by far the most important mobility and armour are about equal and soft stats don’t matter much. It also means that a tank with a crap gun has to be phenomenal in other aspects to make up for it. As final note, mobility is mostly a ``negative stat``, having good mobility doesn’t make a tank good, but having bad mobility does make a tank bad. 

The average is 6.4 and not 5.5, since 5.5 would mean the avg tank is a turd, and that’s certainly not that case. Tier 9 contains many strong tanks and is as a whole a very good tier. Also not one tank gets a 10 since not one tank is that good, the only tier 9 tanks which would be a 10 would be tier 9 IS-4, also beta Obj 704 and beta T-54 come close (9-9.5 or perhaps even 10). 
Lowest rated tank is a 3, even though a 4 can also be justified. The numbers below a 7 are fairly meaningless; I placed the tanks from strong to weak and put numbers behind them so the exact number doesn’t really matter that much down there. I gave for example both Amx-50-120 and Amx-30 a 5, yet Amx-30 is the better tank, but amx-30 is certainly worse as the 6 tanks, while amx-120 is not as crappy as the 4`s. 

ps: I also included the following buffs in this rating: IS-8 mobility and gun handling buff and JT hp buff to 2100.

10: Beta IS-4

Spoiler

It was like current IS-4, except it had the gun of an IS7, and 8 deg gun depression, oh, and also better armour, because WG nerfed the armour when they move it a tier up. The ST-1 is already beastly, and that was a flat out downgrade from the IS4. It was so OP, many people in beta considered the IS-4 on par with the IS7, and IS7 back then was better as the current version, so go figure. As best tier 9 tank of all time, an honourable #1 spot for the besterest balanced Russian tank ever, the IS4, never forget!

9: E50 & St-1

Spoiler

 

The E50, it has a gun better suited for sniping as the sniper mediums, while having armour as good as some heavy tanks, 60km/h top speed, decent acceleration and surprising good camo and agility, its OP. Its only real con is the poor turret armour. The sometimes awkward gun depression (-6 front, -8 sides) and the not that good turning are also sometimes a bit limiting. But if the main cons are ``it doesn’t have 8 deg gun depression all-round`` or ``its turret armour is not that though`` or ``its gold ammo is not that good`` it already proofs how OP it is. The only problems this tank has are ``first world tank problems``, it shits dmg, wn8 and wins, so whatever you wanna pad, the E50 is you best choice.

ST-1, this is by far the most underrated tier 9 tank, it has a turret made of the finest bouncinium, coated with concentrated Stalinium. When hull down, the only ``weak spot`` is the small off-centre hatch, the rest is +300mm.  Combine this with 8 deg gun depression, though hull armour, thick sides, and a actually quite good gun with 340 HEAT pen and you have a tier 9 heavy tank capable of fighting (and beating) high tier heavy’s 1 on 1 no problem. It can tank E100s, beat down multiple tier 8 heavy’s at one or defend a key spot against TDs. The ST-1 does not care, it will truck along leaving a trail of tears and the all so sweet smell of Russian bias. Its Achilles heel (and reason it’s not a 10) is the terrible turning speed and the poor gun handling. The straight line speed is however surprising good, making this all in all the best tier 9 heavy!

 

8.5: T54, E75 & M46

Spoiler

 

T54, this tank when introduced was brutal OP, probably on par with current tier 10 mediums (too long to explain). It got nerfed a lot (hidden stats, gun handling) and its competition got replaced, which made it balanced, until patch 8.0 brought us HEAT + new gun. It was again top dog (by large margin), it got however toned down a bit and E50 and M46 got buffed. No worry`s however, it still has though hull armour, 330 heat, fairly good dpm, the toughest medium turret in-tier, OP camo and amazing mobility. Its main cons are the low alpha dmg and limited gun depression, it also not longer has the impervious turret, it’s still very strong but E50 is a tiny bit better.

E75, the (former) #1 brick tank. Though armour, very fast turning speed and 490 alpha dmg make this perhaps the best real brawler heavy of the game. It can change its angles in no time forcing bounces, it hits harder as almost any other same tier heavy tank. It has also no glaring cons in the form of bad gun depression, a weak turret or bad module dmg. What it prevents from being #1, is the rather poor acceleration and the terrible bloom when turning the hull. The German 128mm being a rather mediocre gun doesn’t help either, bad accuracy, bad aim time, low dpm and slow reload, that’s a bit too harsh for 490 alpha dmg. Bonus: E75 is probably the oldest un-changed tank in wot at this point, almost every other tank present since 0.6.7 got buffed / nerfed, made HD or otherwise altered, all WG did to the E75 was remove the top engine and give it less terrain passibility, the net-gain was zero.

M46, amazing agility, dpm and gun handling, coupled with high view range and superb gun depression, what’s the catch? Well, no armour. at. all. After receiving numerous buffs last patches, this tank is more or less back to its pre-nerf state. Its imo on par with T54 and E75, it has only 1 con, no armour, and when played well that can be mitigated. It’s a nice tank to play and very powerful in the right hands.

 

8: WTF-P4, VK-B, T30 & Conqueror

Spoiler

 

WTF-panzer IV. While bush kemping and red line defending are no longer game deciding quality`s, the WTF-P4 has luckily a few more tricks up its sleeve. 560 alpha dmg and 10 sec reload coupled with good gun handling make a very powerful combination, couple this with the small rear turret and you have a phenomenal corner fighter. This TD can both brawl like a boss and gun down people from a distance, the play style is at times counterintuïtieve (going city on Highway for example) and a bit awkward, but it’s a unique tank and in the right hands the most devastating tier 9 TD.

The Vk-B is almost as old as wot and it went from a well respected foe to a turd. It did have a unique play style and it would shine once in a while, but no mobility or side armour, a rear turret and a questionable gun made it simply bad (this is one of the few tanks which got really powercreeped, every major game-change hurt this tank, hard...) this lasted till WG buffed the armour and knowing WG, ofc not a bit, noooo, a lot. It still has all the old cons (hence no 9) but it does now have OP front armour. Anything short of powerful gold shells and tier 10 TDs won’t have a chance to penetrate it. Yes, the turret front is weak, but it’s also small, (the VK-B is actually a small tank). It also hits relative hard, and the slowness make the gun handling much more bearable as on E75. Its only real flaw is the lack of speed, platoons can however compensate this, making Vk-B for platooning even better as the E75, however solo play also counts and thus an 8.

T30, once a tier X heavy tank it got rebranded, nerfed and down tiered to tier 9. Its mobility is heavy-tank like, its dpm is not very good, its reload is long and it has next to no hull armour. It does get a 750 dmg gun placed in a heavily armoured turret and 10 deg gun depression. Its ability to peek over ridges or hide behind tanks / rubble and smash opponents for 750 are incredible valuable. It can trade shots with tier 10 tanks, it can 2 shot tier 7 tanks, and it has just enough side armour to sidescrape a bit. Yes its slow, yes it has no camo, yes it lacks armour, but 750 alpha dmg + turret (armour) + 10 deg gun depression makes this a game winning brute as well as greatly underrated by most. (the ``rebalance`` of 9.13 might hurt to turret armour a lot though)

Conqueror, a gun which would be sufficient for a tier 10 tank coupled with though turret armour and godly gun handling, this seems OP doesn’t it? Well, that’s if you ignore the cardboard hull armour, the ``size of a boat``, the frontal ammo rack, random placed fuel tanks and the tendency to get one shot by arty. The gun (handling) is amazing, the mobility is good and so is the turret armour. The rest is junk though, it’s mostly good for supporting and its pretty damm good at that, its lack of staying power however is way too limiting for a 9 and its one of the weaker 8`s. WTF P4 is way better as support, M46 has even more dpm, and is 2x faster and T30 has 2x more alpha dmg. In fact, if I’m honest `nostalgia` is perhaps the main reason it’s still an 8, a 7+ might be a better place for this.... (this tank gets overrated imo, yes it’s good, but it’s not the best in tier, not by a long shot)

 

7: M103, Wz-11111111-4, Jagdtiger, Wz-120, Cent mk7, T-10, T54e1, Obj 430 v2

Spoiler

 

M103, take a Conqueror, remove some turret armour, gun handling and dpm, add a bit of gun depression and hull armour, and you have the M103. This tank is to my surprise actually pretty good and certainly better as the individual parts suggest. The gun does what it has to do, the turret + gun depression are a good combination and the hull armour is just though enough. It’s all in all a reliable all-rounder. Its problem is also simple: it offers very little over the Conqueror. It’s also just all-round a tad too weak, the typical ``master of none`` it’s one the better tanks, and the best of the 7`s.

The Wz-111-1/4, its fast, has a big gun and troll armour and it aint even Russian! This tank is straight forward, it’s a brawler which can use its armour to bully low tiers, its mobility allows it to fight mediums and its peek-booing + heat + alpha dmg makes it a treat to higher tiers. Its main flaw is that the gun handling is not good and that the armour is as good at trolling the enemy as it is at trolling you, bouncing a Jp-E100 followed by getting penetrated 3x in a row by an IS3 is all part of the package. All in all a solid tank, but it simply can’t compete with the tanks above it.

The Jagdtiger, (including the hp buff, with 1800 hp it would be edge of 6+ / 7-) it’s big, slow, has no camo, no turret and underwhelming hull armour, yet it’s a 7, why? Well, having the perhaps best gun of the game doesn’t hurt for a start. Dpm, alpha dmg, AP penetration, 352 APCR gold ammo. It might be bad at getting to the fight, nor does it like taking hits, but it can dish out serious dmg, the gun arc is decent, it has gun depression and the casemate has enough armour to at least bounce some shells. Throw in 1800 / 2100 hp and it can beat down any heavy (including bricks like the VK-P) in a straight slugfest. And hey, it’s a big grey German box-tenk, what not to like?

Centurion Mk7, high base penetration and shell speed, excellent agility, very good gun depression and surprising though armour on both UFP and turret combined with low top speed, low dpm and poor bloom. This is a tank not suited for everyone. The lack of gold shells is actually not much a problem, since the base pen is already better as M46 / E50 / T54e1 gold ammo (and it does get 220 pen HESH as bonus). Cent mk7 his main problem (and limitation) is the lack of dpm, it needs a lot of time to kill the bad guys, couple this with far from amazing gun handling, and there will be situations where you will fail miserable. It’s still a 7 though, its comfortable to play, it’s fairly flexible and it has in the end only one real weakness (too bad its such`s a serious weakness).

Wz-120, a T-54 with no gun depression, less hull armour and worse mobility, to compensate it gets the gun of an IS8. Wz-120 is an fairly mediocre medium tank with a big boomstick, meaning every game is on the edge, 5-6 hits and you already did 2200-2600 dmg, but miss twice and bounce once and it’s a measly 900.... Like Cent mk7 this tank is not for everyone, if you can overcome the total lack of gun depression and can adjust to the slow aiming gun, this tank is devastating, if you can’t? Prepare for frustration. With 5 deg gun depression this tank would be amaze balls, at this moment however, it’s a solid 7, it’s good, but at times a bit too limited

IS-8 / T-10, (including the planned buffs, from 9.13 else it would be a 6) before the buffs of 9.12 and 9.13 it was a tank just not good enough, the turret a tad too soft, the gun a little derpy, the mobility a bit too bad and ofc not much armour. It gets simply outclassed by the Wz-111 and the Wz-120. The buffs however gave the IS-8 just that bit of mobility and toughness it needs. It’s a relative fast flanker which can brawl as well, the powerful HEAT allows it to put holes in anything it faces. Its main cons are typical Russian: accuracy, aim time and (lack of) gun depression, this in a tier with many excellent heavy tanks makes it a middle pack tank (without buffs it’s a 6, the mobility gap with Wz-111 + less alpha dmg make it simply worse).

T54e1, 4x390 dmg, reasonable armour and good gun depression is an powerful combo, the totally worthless penetration + derp gun accuracy are however serious disadvantages. Another problem is that it’s an autoloader, this limits its role a bit, good for peeking / short burst, bad for sustained fire or prolonged fights, you always need a way out. I personally hate(d) it, but many people can dish out serious dmg with this tank, so for that reason it’s a 7 (I myself would rate a 6, the pen + gun handling + 0.4 accuracy are too bad for my taste)

Obj 430 v2, it’s an T54 with more armour, speed, dakka and camo, best medium in tier? Well, no… A rear turret which cant traverse 360 deg is a serious handicap, it resembles the T54 in a lot of ways, but it can’t play like it. It’s not a bad tank, just frustrating, hence middle pack.

 

6: Obj 704 & Type 61

Spoiler

 

Object 704, how far can a tank fall? When introduced it rivalled the mighty IS-4 in terms of OP-ness, 40 degree`s gun arc, 40! that’s as much as tortoise has at this moment, throw in no tier 10 tds, better mobility and godly camo and it made a joke of any other TD in the game. WG cut the gun arc in half, lowered the turning speed and reworked camo, making it sort of balanced. Then patch 7.5 happened, tier 10 TDs, the 704 was no longer the tank with the biggest boomstick and to make matters worse, mm got reworked so no more tier 6 tanks to fight either. The shift from redline camping to brawling was the final nail in the coffin. It still has the mighty Bl-10, troll armour and good camo, but the horrendous turning speed and lack of turret are serious problems in the ``current`` meta. It still has its moments, but you’re better off with an T-30, same gun, same speed, no camo, but a turret with armour and gun depression more than compensate for that.... (with a turning speed buff this TD would be much more relevant again thuogh).

Type 61, the chassis itself would be bad for a tier 8 medium, let alone tier 9, luckily however it gets an potent gun with good camo and gun depression. Also unlike any other NATO 105mm med it has no silly cons like dpm (cent) turning speed / bloom (amx-30) or gun depression (pta). Why still a 6? well, having no armour, a fairly big frontal profile and limited top speed are combined a bit too much. Its however a pleasant tank to grind, the gun + gun depression combo work nicely and its among the better NATO meds, a 6.

 

5: Foch, Amx-30, Conway & Amx-50-120, 

Spoiler

 

The Foch, another powerful TD which got ``rebalanced``, once the epitome of ``OP French tanks`` a first set of harsh nerfs removed all the opness (30% more bloom, aim time from 1.7 to 2.3 and traverse nerf) the great arty nerf of 8.6 made it however again exceptional powerful. The real let down came later, the slow increase of tier 10 TDs (WTF-E100, 183) the slowly increasing arty numbers and the armour nerf made it a fairly weak TD. The good part is, this TD does get heavy tank armour, medium tank mobility and a gun, while sloppy for a TD, exceptional for a heavy. The overmatchable sides and the poor gun handling greatly hurt it. Overall, in the current game, it no longer ``works that well`` . Give it back its side armour, buff the bloom and for the love of god nerf arty, and Foch will once again be an very good TD.

Amx-30, fast, it has gun depression, just enough armour to not get one shot by every single arty hit and a very good gun, high pen, good gold shells, and quite good dpm. So why still a 5 you ask? Well, atrocious bloom makes any kind of peek boo-ing impossible and having the turning speed of a KV4 doesn’t help either. Good looks, good paper stats, good for dealing dmg, but in practice simply not good for winning.... Frustrating to play and the RNG will make you loose games, a 5.

Conway, one of the many tanks with an amazing gun and terrible weaknesses. The good part is that the Conway is rly agile, goes as fast uphill as downhill and has superb accuracy, aim time and dpm. The con is that goes as fast uphill as downhill due to perfetic top speed. The bloom is awful to ``compensate`` the amazing aim time and it has no gun depression while being as tall as an E100. Oh, and it also has barely any armour. All of the above wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t for the simple fact that Conqueror and E50 can all do what a Conway does, and more. It’s too limited in its role and has too many weaknesses, if it ever gets buffed / rebalanced it might turn out amazing, but right now, it isn’t, it gets outclassed in the ``support role`` and that’s sadly all this TD can do.

Amx-50-120, the size and camo of an E100, the armour and mobility of an Panther and Russian gun handling and gun depression. This sounds like a tier 7 tank doesn’t it? Well, its tier 9… It’s a massive tank with no armour or camo, terrible gun elevation, bad gun depression, bad gun handling and very long aim time. Its only saving grace is the powerful 4x400 dmg autoloader with very high penetration. And while a good gun is the most important part of a tank, there are limits, and Amx-120 clearly went past those. In platoons it is surprising good, but when you’re playing on your own or when your grinding the bazillion exp to upgrade it you will suffer, a lot, perhaps a 5 is even too kind for it....

 

4: Su-122-54, Tortoise, Leopard PTA, Type 4 & T95

Spoiler

 

SU-122-54, once a total potato, WG buffed it a bit over time, but it’s still poor. It looks a lot like Foch, except for a few things, the Foch for example has armour, the SU doesn’t. Another serious disadvantage compared to the Foch is that the Foch has more gun depression and a bigger gun arc. The SU does get better camo, but in terms of mobility they are almost the same, SU turns faster, Foch is faster in straight line. Gun wise the SU also always got outclassed, but at least the buffs narrowed the gap, the SU has now more alpha dmg and a dpm advantage. This still doesn’t change that being worse as a tank which already struggles is not positive. SU also depends a lot on camo maps, and those are rare. The SU-122-54 was never good, and all map changes made it even worse, a 4.

Tortoise, by far the best dpm of the game with the biggest gun arc of any high tier TD and good gun depression. With rammer and vents it reloads in 5.99 sec for 400 dmg, it’s the best gun of the game on a chassis with 2000 hit points. However having the best gun comes with cons, and WG hasn’t been kind in the regard. Its armour is very underwhelming and it has a nasty weak spot (the loader also dies, killing the dpm) combined with the terrible speed and the fact it’s a big, bulky TD greatly undermine its potential, it’s simply too slow and too soft. It also gets severe outclassed in its role by a JT. The Jagdtiger has a gun almost as good, but its faster and has usable armour and on top of that also scales better with tier 10 tanks (560 alpha and 350 pen are always relevant). For me, this tank was the disappointing end of a good TD line, I liked all brit-bricks, except for one, and that’s the tortoise... 

Leopard PTA, once perhaps the worst tank in its tier, it however received numerous buffs and will be buffed even more. This doesn’t make much difference though since its main cons are still present: No armour & No gun depression. Soft tanks only work if they can hide well behind ridges, and the PTA cant. its strengths are also not that useful nowadays, throw in the terrible module dmg and being stuck in a tier with many similar tanks and it doesn’t look that good. It’s the worst tier 9 medium since day 1, and it seems that it will stay that way for a long, long time....

Type 4, one of the most recent additions to the game, and also one of the worst. It’s as big as an MAUS with even worse mobility, it has a fairly powerful gun, but very bad dpm and accuracy. The armour, which should be its strength is also disappointing. Its thick and flat, meaning all gold shells penetrate it with ease while the slowness and profile greatly reduce the effect of angling. Buff the accuracy to 0.38, reduce the reload with 2 seconds and buffs its mobility and it can be ``ok``, but right now it’s not. It gets totally outclassed in role of ``steel wall`` by the VK-B and that’s also the only role it has. When your main value is novelty, you know there is a problem...

The T95, at first I wanted to exclude this tank, just like arty is excluded. Massive armour, no speed and a very good gun, this is the most team / map / RNG dependant tank of the game. You either roll forward, encounter many (bad) enemies and deal much many damage or you roll forward and get swarmed / gold ammo spammed / raped by arty / raped by a tier 10 TD and do nothing. When half the maps consisted out of camping in the back, the T95 with its gun, camo and armour was quite good, nowadays most maps require at least some positioning. Positioning and T95 don’t get along very well and thus a 4. If (and that’s an if) your however platooning with slowish heavy’s or TDs, the T95 can be a great asset, it can lock flanks like no other and once it gets into the fight it can be of great value, so in a triple platoon it would be a 6, its on-par with Obj 704 or Foch in that case. For solo play its among the worst in its tier.

 

3: Lorraine

Spoiler

Lorraine, the title for ``most nerfed tank in the history of wot`` probably goes to wot. The tank got 250 hp extra and got dumped in tier 9, from most OP tier 8 to most worthless tier 9, GG. however it did receive multiple (small) buffs and is now surprising good and fun, but it’s still a 3, and the biggest shitter in tier. The reason is simple: if you want to play Lorraine, use food, spam a ton of gold and play only in platoons. However if you’re planning on using food + a ton of gold + only platoons there about +/- 28 tanks better in that role, and even with all of the above, it’s still ``not very good``, let alone without... It’s simply a terrible tank, its too big, too soft and the gun needs to much time to unload. Unless WG is willing to greatly rebalance the whole thing, it’s better to make it a premium with 90mm and add amx-105 as tier 9, Lorraine doesn’t fit in the tech tree and doesn’t fit in this tier, its thus the ultimate loser!

 

Edited by GehakteMolen
f*****n spoilers not working

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Yes! The ST-1 and T30 are beasts! In the latter I almost maintained a 3k dpg 70% solo winrate (including the grind for the top gun) over 200 games, such a pleasure to play and easiest 3 MoE of my life. The list is pretty good, based on personal experience I wouldn't rate the waffle4 as high, rage sold it just like the obj704.

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E-50 - remember about great buff to this tank when WG separated transmission from engine;

ST-I - it's way too slow to react in time. ST-I is still turning 180 degrees while E-75 is on its way;

T30 - incoming nerf to turret roof :cri:

Cent mk7 - it has ammo rack issues too;

Jagdtiger - it's superstructure was epic till gold ammo for credits was implemented. Now only gun mantlet is able to stop second hit;

M103 < E50

Foch - TERRIBLE real aim time and accuracy, lol alpha, stronk frontal armor with lol weakspots. 

SU-122-54 - gun is derpy, mobility is ok but camo is useless because most of nice bushes are for tanks with some gun depression and arcs. Small anthill and "Goddamit, birds again! I hate birds!"

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Great write up!

With the upcoming buffs to the Lorraine (2.5s aimtime, down from 3s in the supertest patchnotes) I personally would rate it a little higher. Granted, I suck@tanks but my biggest problem with the Lorraine was the combination of horrible bloom and a long aimtime: I would get the tank in the right position and the gun would refuse to perform. With a decrease in aimtime, it will actually be aimed before it loads, which is really nice, along with minimizing exposure time for those 1-2 shell engagements.

I personally would rate the 50 120 much lower, the tank sacrifices so much to mount an awesome gun and then it gets *** on with perhaps the worst combination of gun handling attributes in the game. 3s aimtime, 3.33s between shells, no gun elevation/depression, and derpy French accuracy(TM). The mobility is nothing to write home about (I found the tank quite sluggish) and the armor is nonexistent (as usual). There are no strengths to abuse that aren't already made ineffective by WG's "balance" department.

IMO, Lorraine > 50 120

Just my pubbie .02

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For my taste you seem to put too high of an emphasis on armour, I wouldn't rank the ST-I and the VK45B over some of the T9 meds you have at 7 just because they're too slow and speed is very important when you gotta carry. Also 30 Proto has sucky turn speed and bloom but the rest is absolutely top notch, it's for sure miles better than the Type 61.

 

All in all a way better rating than the ones Garbad put out.

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I'm a simple man, I see throwback to the old IS-4, I press like. That thing was seriously terrifying to go up against.

Also, what would you rate the old T34?

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18 minutes ago, FavreFan4ever said:

I personally would rate the 50 120 much lower, the tank sacrifices so much to mount an awesome gun and then it gets *** on with perhaps the worst combination of gun handling attributes in the game. 3s aimtime, 3.33s between shells, no gun elevation/depression, and derpy French accuracy(TM). The mobility is nothing to write home about (I found the tank quite sluggish) and the armor is nonexistent (as usual). There are no strengths to abuse that aren't already made ineffective by WG's "balance" department.

IMO, Lorraine > 50 120

Just my pubbie .02

As i said, Amx-120 should perhaps be a 4, i played it 3 years ago, i didnt like it that much, but it was fairly effective

16 minutes ago, X3N4 said:

For my taste you seem to put too high of an emphasis on armour, I wouldn't rank the ST-I and the VK45B over some of the T9 meds you have at 7 just because they're too slow and speed is very important when you gotta carry. Also 30 Proto is way too slow, bloom and turning speed suck but the rest is absolutely top notch, it's for sure miles better than the Type 61.

I rly, rly hated amx proto, so perhaps im a bit biased there :P

Vk-B is decent solo (say an 7) but in platoon its stupid good, (say a 9) so i took the middle ground

6 minutes ago, jostie said:

Also, what would you rate the old T34?

it was imo actually a good tank, it had no armor in a time where that was very important, but the gun, mobility and gun depression where all very good, all in all about the same as M103 more or less

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I remember when I rebought the 704 (because I'd bought the 268 back when it was actually a sidegrade as opposed to the current downgrade) and my first match was an amazing round on Prokhorovka. 50 more games in it later and I've never had another camouflage/long range map.
So basically, Gehakte is right. You won't always wish you were in a T30, but any strengths the 704 still has have been mitigated by maps just turning shit.

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5 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

it was imo actually a good tank, it had no armor in a time where that was very important, but the gun, mobility and gun depression where all very good, all in all about the same as M103 more or less

Surprising, maybe because I never had trouble penetrating one even when 4 tiers lower that I wouldn't rate it higher then a 3 myself.

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Yeah fuck, I played stronghold while typing that and got lost in the sentence. Fixed it now. The raw power of 30 Proto gun (HEAT, DPM, accuracy when aimed) and it's top speed just make it good, no matter the bloom.

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I was ranking tier 9's the other day for some main forum pubbie (he wanted to know the better tier 9's) and this is basically exactly how i ranked them ;____;

 

Nice list for sure :)

I can see some people wanting the conq/ E1 pushed up a point.

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Thanks for making this.

If you could select just the best 50% of the maps for the Lorraine (so open, and space to move), would it be higher than a 3?  I am finding it downright average (maybe a 5-ish) if I have choices and can actually maneuver with it.  It sure is painful on closed maps though, so 3 feels about right for an overall rating.  2.73 seconds is pretty silly between shots.  

 

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I liked PTA much better than the 30P.

 

30P just felt far too slow to turn, and the fact that you can't mount coffee due to front mounted engine unlike PTA just makes it so much worse to play for me.

Not sure how you placed JT above 704, JT is pretty much the only tank that i used 2 Repair kits and a fire extinguisher, the thing's engine dies literally every time someone pens the lower plate, with with 2 repair kits i often times end up with a dead engine at the end of the game, thats how bad it was, where as 704 has some of the most troll armor in Tier 9 with good speed/depression to boot.

Also, I think with the buff, T10 is probably the best tier 9 HT, perfect amount of DPM/aim time with good movement speed and armor to match.

not a damage taker, but at the same time, it can adapt to any map without suffering big drawbacks that STI/E75 have.

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4 minutes ago, weesh said:

Thanks for making this.

If you could select just the best 50% of the maps for the Lorraine (so open, and space to move), would it be higher than a 3?  I am finding it downright average (maybe a 5-ish) if I have choices and can actually maneuver with it.  It sure is painful on closed maps though, so 3 feels about right for an overall rating.  2.73 seconds is pretty silly between shots.  

Yeah, 2.73 means you need 13.65 sec to empty your clip (5x rld), trow in 1.5 sec for the first shot and thats 15 sec, thats as long as an 704 need to reload. In theory, an Obj 704 can 2 shot you before you can kill him, all he needs is the first shot and good dmg rolls, GG....

Maps are not the only problem its also mm, 1 game you get a T49 with he, next game 4 arty, another game ensk + 4 t10 tds, i had quite a lot of really good games, but also many total crap games, its like T95 or Type 4, totally mm dependant

4 minutes ago, CarbonWard said:

I liked PTA much better than the 30P.

30P just felt far too slow to turn, and the fact that you can't mount coffee due to front mounted engine unlike PTA just makes it so much worse to play for me.

Also, I think with the buff, T10 is probably the best tier 9 HT, perfect amount of DPM/aim time with good movement speed and armor to match.

not a damage taker, but at the same time, it can adapt to any map without suffering big drawbacks that STI/E75 have.

I tried to guestimate how much influence the buff will have (havent played test server) perhaps it turns out much better as i guess Wz-111-4, a tank which is alrdy very good (i have perhaps rated Wz-1111 a bit too low, but then i keep shufling tanks :p)

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4 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

 

I tried to guestimate how much influence the buff will have (havent played test server) perhaps it turns out much better as i guess Wz-111-4, a tank which is alrdy very good (i have perhaps rated Wz-1111 a bit too low, but then i keep shufling tanks :p)

Wz111 suffers the same problem JT does, good paper stats, bad to use practically.

Lowerplate can't resist 175mm penetration is a major problem when facing Tier 7s, not to mention obvious engine/fire problem that comes with being penned infront.

Aimtime is also very bad in tier 10 games where it you are constantly forced to shoot before you are fully aimed simply due to how fast everyone else aims in faster than you.

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is8/t10 is actually very accurate thanks to soft stats. I'd rate it higher tbh.

 

Carbon Ward was faster than me. I also think t-10 is best in trier. It's basically the perfect heavium. 

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1 minute ago, GehakteMolen said:

Yeah, 2.73 means you need 13.65 sec to empty your clip (5x rld), trow in 1.5 sec for the first shot and thats 15 sec, thats as long as an 704 need to reload. In theory, an Obj 704 can 2 shot you before you can kill him, all he needs is the first shot and good dmg rolls, GG....

To be fair, it's usually a bad idea to put out all the shots in this tank or the 50100.  If you put 5 shots into a 704, and take 1 shot, that is WAY better than putting 6 in and taking 2 shots.  The goal is usually to put out as many shots as possible, limiting return fire to 0-1 shots, and not staying out long enough to take a second shot.  Sometimes it works out nicely, and you can do two bursts to use up the clip, but I end up shuffling away 1-2 shots more often than I'd like.  

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nice input but do you really think the M103 is the best of the 7's? its by far the worst tier 9 heavy (japs excluded) the hull/ turret armour is simply nonexistant, its also slow and a huge target for arty. dont get me wrong its a great sniper but there are plenty other tanks that should be sniping instead of a heavy.

i feel like its sits in a wierd place: the E75, ST1 and VKB are far better at tanking, the conq is the dpm king and WZ/T10 are far better heaviums i kind of wonder where this leaves the m103

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59 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

I tried to guestimate how much influence the buff will have (havent played test server) perhaps it turns out much better as i guess Wz-111-4, a tank which is alrdy very good (i have perhaps rated Wz-1111 a bit too low, but then i keep shufling tanks :p)

Yeah, that was the only one I might have changed.  The 111-4 seems like a prototypical "heavium" but with enough armor to not be totally outclassed by other heavies.  Probably could twiddle the 111-4, the M103 and the Conqueror around depending on map and personal taste, I think.  Otherwise nice list.

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13 minutes ago, westybig said:

nice input but do you really think the M103 is the best of the 7's? its by far the worst tier 9 heavy (japs excluded) the hull/ turret armour is simply nonexistant, its also slow and a huge target for arty. dont get me wrong its a great sniper but there are plenty other tanks that should be sniping instead of a heavy.

i feel like its sits in a wierd place: the E75, ST1 and VKB are far better at tanking, the conq is the dpm king and WZ/T10 are far better heaviums i kind of wonder where this leaves the m103

M103 is waaaay better than the type4. First of all it is MUCH more agile and while not possessing amazing armor it has decent aiming + good pen which means it can expose itself for so little time enemies will not heat weakspots on your turret. Also gun depression means a lot. People underestimate because it doesn't feel powerful in any place (maybe except for 1 vs 1's in good positions) so you have no advantages to leverage. For the most part I hate tanks like this but I had amazing results in my m103. Its easy to flex in it and it never feels out  of place. Ended the grind with 59% win rate. Which is odd to say the least given I'm only at 55% with my 704 and e1. 

Just now, breeeze said:

The Lorr is definitely bad, but I wouldn't rate it as the worst T9. Autoloader + Speed goes a long way sometimes and it can absolutely own shit in the right circumstances.

The right circumstances are rare. It's still big, has no camo and aims very long which means in the corridor meta it has no influence on the early game and early game = wins. It may be very useful if your team is competent to make a game 5:5 after a few minutes but with other tanks it would often be 8:5 at the same time.

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49 minutes ago, CarbonWard said:

Wz111 suffers the same problem JT does, good paper stats, bad to use practically.

Lowerplate can't resist 175mm penetration is a major problem when facing Tier 7s, not to mention obvious engine/fire problem that comes with being penned infront.

Aimtime is also very bad in tier 10 games where it you are constantly forced to shoot before you are fully aimed simply due to how fast everyone else aims in faster than you.

Oh, i only gave JT a 7 because of the 2100 hp, it gets just too much hp and dpm, its also imo the best of the turretless TDs (not that much of an achievement) so i had to place it about 704, 704 beiing middle pack

12 minutes ago, westybig said:

nice input but do you really think the M103 is the best of the 7's? its by far the worst tier 9 heavy (japs excluded) the hull/ turret armour is simply nonexistant, its also slow and a huge target for arty. dont get me wrong its a great sniper but there are plenty other tanks that should be sniping instead of a heavy.

Well, im winning almost everything with M103 last months, so it cant be that bad (a ton of platoon, but after 60 games 80% winrate since i bought it back)

I guess beiing a true all-rounder makes it quite powerfull, its still the ``worst`` t9 heavy, but thats also partly because many tier 9 heavys are so strong

ps: and ofc player preference, i like the m103 and i despise the amx 30 proto, someone else might rly dislike slow tanks, im sure Xena would give all meds atleast 1 point more and everything that doesnt go 35km/h 1 point less :P

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WZ ratings depress me. I have a turd WZ-111 prem sitting in my garage and I just can't seem to find a Chinese HT worth using .... to justify even taking the prem out of the garage lel.

What's worse, before I went into Hiatus, I trained 1 girl a china HT commander... silly me. Now I'm boned.


I thought to use 110 first but HD IS-3 outclassed it

WZ-11111114? seems not too good when you guys put it that way lol

113? piece of fucking shit

 

Can't even go IS-2 gold spam, it's dead for like 5 patches or so :<

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