Exp DMG [Before release] Guess

[RichardNixon 835]

25 minutes ago, gdgrim said:

Do you have a proof?

It was all part of the WN9 process. I only kept defence in the formula because it was popular. Caps were a better discriminator, if anything, especially for meds and lights. Frags*spots was a really good discriminator for anything except arty, so WN8 wasn't all wrong.

Edit: Some possible reasons why defense points wouldn't indicate playing to win:

1. More defense points are awarded if you're late to defend rather than early.
2. Being capped may result from not pushing your own flank hard enough.
3. It's easier to get back to defend if you're further from the front line.

[gdgrim 40]

39 minutes ago, CraBeatOff said:

I wasn't aware WNx could create physical dependency...my powers grow! Generally though, the drug isn't put on trial, held culpable etc. If WNx were to disappear tomorrow, people would still farm damage and spam games to fluff their Personality Ratings. Its also clear you didn't get the pleasure of playing in the fastcap era. And cap resets are worth what % ? 9ish? I can't recall and its in combination with frags anyhow. You can't make them worth more than that 500 damage though...you think meta choices are shit now, imagine the camping if base resets were worth more than damage. 5 TDs per game sitting behind the circle. 

It happened before WNx (and WoT), and it will happen after. Human nature isn't all roses ya know. 

Physical not, mental definitely - together with XVM and "internet tank fame". Why do people quit after 2 bad games in a row? Isn't it because they are having a bad session and they don't want their WNx to drop? This tells you a lot about how fucked up people are.

I'm not sure about NA, but on EU most of people use XVM. So instead of concentrating on winning the game, they want to improve their displayed color in the XVM list. That's like saying "I don't care how much I earn, I just want to wear a suit at work". Sure you can say, wearing suit to work usually means you are not working for McDonalds, yeah but you could also have some shitty desk job and the suit is just your peon uniform.

Simply put, WNx sets the wrong goals and many times promotes retarded gameplay.

Imagine that CS:GO would have something like WNx and XVM. WNx would give you extra "points" for shooting enemies in their dicks and XVM would then display this for everyone to see. All the tryhards would start immediately aim for the enemy crotches, taking longer to aim just to be sure to hit the enemy in his dick.  Sounds stupid and useless, right? Why do you need some hits_to_dicks statistics when all you should care about is winning the match? And this is literally what WNx / XVm is doing for WOT.
 

[CraBeatOff 5,741]

8 minutes ago, gdgrim said:

Physical not, mental definitely - together with XVM and "internet tank fame". Why do people quit after 2 bad games in a row? Isn't it because they are having a bad session and they don't want their WNx to drop? This tells you a lot about how fucked up people are.

I'm not sure about NA, but on EU most of people use XVM. So instead of concentrating on winning the game, they want to improve their displayed color in the XVM list. That's like saying "I don't care how much I earn, I just want to wear a suit at work". Sure you can say, wearing suit to work usually means you are not working for McDonalds, yeah but you could also have some shitty desk job and the suit is just your peon uniform.

Simply put, WNx sets the wrong goals and many times promotes retarded gameplay.

Imagine that CS:GO would have something like WNx and XVM. WNx would give you extra "points" for shooting enemies in their dicks and XVM would then display this for everyone to see. All the tryhards would start immediately aim for the enemy crotches, taking longer to aim just to be sure to hit the enemy in his dick.  Sounds stupid and useless, right? Why do you need some hits_to_dicks statistics when all you should care about is winning the match? And this is literally what WNx / XVm is doing for WOT.
 

See the sig. And yes XVM is a much better culprit, since XVM + Eff = lolcapfast before WNx came along to even remotely tickle valid win prediction. 

But seriously, complaining about the metric delivery won't make people stop being stupid. People always be stupid about something or another. If it weren't for WNx they'd still be TC padding and fastcapping, or else using PR in the same way. You can't change it, wishing away the metric won't help, because the hydra will grow another head. Acceptance and focus on your own choices is the only path out. 

[gdgrim 40]

EFF, WNx, WG's rating = all the same in my eyes. Maybe WNx is doing it "better", but at the end of the day it's not what this discussion is about. You guys made a good tool, but it's greatly misused and you know it. And I say it again, it promotes toxic gameplay. I guess I just wanted to know what the fathers of WNx think about my views.

But I agree, XVM is the worse of the two.

You are right, I'm not aware of "fast cap meta". But correct me if I'm wrong, this was only a thing thanks to another metric - EFF. Which ads a point to my case.

 

[gdgrim 40]

41 minutes ago, RichardNixon said:

It was all part of the WN9 process. I only kept defence in the formula because it was popular. Caps were a better discriminator, if anything, especially for meds and lights. Frags*spots was a really good discriminator for anything except arty, so WN8 wasn't all wrong.

Edit: Some possible reasons why defense points wouldn't indicate playing to win:

1. More defense points are awarded if you're late to defend rather than early.
2. Being capped may result from not pushing your own flank hard enough.
3. It's easier to get back to defend if you're further from the front line.

4. Too greedy to come back.

As an example of my point, look at this replay:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wrmltwkpi2l3d4/20151208_1847_germany-E-75_73_asia_korea.wotreplay?dl=0

Around 12:00 I notice the other flank failed and decide to go back. We had 9 tanks on my flank at this point and enemy had 3.

11:20: it was already 9vs1 but the 9 players still didn't decide to go back, rather they are fucking around, trying to kill e100.

11:06: we are getting capped now, still nobody is coming back to help. Still trying to farm damage off E100.

10:30: I'm dead, made some reset but what is my team doing? Chasing around T57 midway to our cap.

10:20: our obj140 that finally decided to come back figured out it's a good idea to farm damage off enemy e75 rather than attempt a reset.

10:00 we are capped. Nobody gives a shit, they farmed damage.

 

But clearly, this is not the fault of metrics promoting damage farming...

[RichardNixon 835]

7 minutes ago, gdgrim said:

11:20: it was already 9vs1 but the 9 players still didn't decide to go back, rather they are fucking around, trying to kill e100.

That's not even rational though. What gets you more damage? Attempting to get your 1/9 share of an E-100, or defending the base?

Most players are incapable of optimizing either WN8 or winning. They just tunnel because they're bad.

[gdgrim 40]

1 minute ago, RichardNixon said:

That's not even rational though. What gets you more damage? Attempting to get your 1/9 share of an E-100, or defending the base?

Most players are incapable of optimizing either WN8 or winning. They just tunnel because they're bad.

Of course it's not rational!

But WNx rationalizes it for them, because coming back for reset is a long drive which might give them 0 damage.

Here they have at least a guarantee of something.

Also that's why they proceed to attack the t57 rather than go back. Some damage is better than none! And WNx will make them feel good after the game, since more damage = more WNx. Who the fuck cares about win/loss?

And you see this shit every game, somebody doing irrational decisions just to damage farm a bit more.

[siciliano 1]

(I believe the WNx was not create with ill intentions - to make the gameplay toxic, but that's what it's doing. Can anyone deny this?)  - gdgrim

WN was not created to damage peoples brains (psyhology, I NEED MORE DAMAGE WNx was created to show that in this game there are players that perform better or lesser that's it. 

1.You need just to accept that how is it. 

2. Yes it is a drug. But a good drug. Its like a protain its makes you feel better. And the best

bith *** s of this world love you (arties:) When you purple you feel that everyone wants a part of you. Specially some (nice Im sorry to say this) lovely tomato gonna go through all map to get your nice and tasty but. and die . In the same way tomato gonna feel himself like great warrior that kill the TITAN..... ( WTF i just said

3. Im sorry i forgot what the 3rd point supposed to be.

4. WNx is good way to get Shine.

5. Its real answer now jokes - If the WNx was bad the top clans would not put in their requirements. Cuz if you doing more damage that mean that you getting closer to end the bettle in your favor ( or something like that)

6. If you gonna look at the  human physiology different colors make you life happier. 

7. You need to decide what do you need? WNx or team play - win - SOLO? what? Its a random maaan dont get mad and be happy  If you want to have wins and team play go and get platoon with someone.

 

Dont worry and be Happy....

[meem1029 37]

3 hours ago, gdgrim said:

Why do people quit after 2 bad games in a row? Isn't it because they are having a bad session and they don't want their WNx to drop?

Perhaps for some people, but for me it's because I start to get frustrated and playing on tilt is not going to make it better. I don't enjoy the game when I'm playing like crap and if I start a night playing poorly it often just ends in frustration and not improvement. This leads to me choosing to stop and play something I find more enjoyable.

I imagine I'm not alone in this.

[gdgrim 40]

2 hours ago, siciliano said:

5. Its real answer now jokes - If the WNx was bad the top clans would not put in their requirements. Cuz if you doing more damage that mean that you getting closer to end the bettle in your favor ( or something like that)

 

No respectable clan let's people in just based on WNx. I can inflate my WN8 by playing E50 for 2 weeks straight. Suddenly I will become purple recent. Does it mean I have become a better player? I don't think so.

Every top clan has some minimal damage requirements for certain tanks, but what mostly counts is how they like your play style.

Anyhow, you missed the whole point of this discussion.

[Snoregasm2 646]

15 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

That's not even rational though. What gets you more damage? Attempting to get your 1/9 share of an E-100, or defending the base?

Most players are incapable of optimizing either WN8 or winning. They just tunnel because they're bad.

Exactly - that's not a WN8 problem that's a fucking retard problem.

They shoot what's in front of them regardless of WN8 (the same way they camp if they may get shot once in order to overmatch a flank) - that won't change by removing WNx. The problem is they can't visualise or think about anything beyond the immediate next step they need to take - they won't even think about resetting until they have nothing else to do (i.e. when the E 100 is dead).

Pubbie's gonna pub out, no matter what you do.

[siciliano 1]

22 hours ago, gdgrim said:

No respectable clan let's people in just based on WNx. I can inflate my WN8 by playing E50 for 2 weeks straight. Suddenly I will become purple recent. Does it mean I have become a better player? I don't think so.

Every top clan has some minimal damage requirements for certain tanks, but what mostly counts is how they like your play style.

Anyhow, you missed the whole point of this discussion.

I agree i missed the point cuz i was writing long   and when i post it it did not mean right thing.

Example:

You have 10k bettles

Everall WN8 1600 

you have tanks for CW and damage on them 3000+ 

your recent 3000+ also

basiclly you match the high tier requermants ( i mean you become a good player and you have a good play style)

If you have 10k bettle and everall 1600 and recent 3000 your everall gonna go up slowly by 3-5 points everyday you gonna need 18k bettle to reach the 2500 everall. that's a long way

Do you think that clan gonna take you in?  

progress culculator - http://www.wot-fightclub.de/wot/road_to_victory/calc.html

10 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Exactly - that's not a WN8 problem that's a fucking retard problem.

They shoot what's in front of them regardless of WN8 (the same way they camp if they may get shot once in order to overmatch a flank) - that won't change by removing WNx. The problem is they can't visualise or think about anything beyond the immediate next step they need to take - they won't even think about resetting until they have nothing else to do (i.e. when the E 100 is dead).

Not everyone paing attantion to minimap that's why and every one know it. If you didnt see that you done.(in replay) K line was lost and they were overmatching tanks in A line only one got back to rest gdgrim teammates just didnt count the time that they need to come back and reset Obj was late, also enamy 50 B did the right choice to get behind. 

read MiniMap that's important part of the game. ( not everyone getting that)

 

 

 

 

[mereelskirata 1,205]

17 hours ago, siciliano said:

basiclly you match the high tier requermants ( i mean you become a good player and you have a good play style)

If you have 10k bettle and everall 1600 and recent 3000 your everall gonna go up slowly by 3-5 points everyday you gonna need 18k bettle to reach the 2500 everall. that's a long way

Do you think that clan gonna take you in?  

 Well, I got into Bulba while having 55% and 1900 WN8  because I was better than my overall stats would suggest. Same with a lot of our recruits. I don't know how recruitment works on the EU server, but I would assume top clans make exceptions for great players with lower overall stats.

[Snoregasm2 646]

3 minutes ago, mereelskirata said:

 Well, I got into Bulba while having 55% and 1900 WN8  because I was better than my overall stats would suggest. Same with a lot of our recruits. I don't know how recruitment works on the EU server, but I would assume top clans make exceptions for great players with lower overall stats.

Not really tbh.

Source -  I was Recruitment Officer for OMNI

[mereelskirata 1,205]

19 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Not really tbh.

Source -  I was Recruitment Officer for OMNI

Well then the EU server sucks.

 

(Then again the EU server has far more players, so they would also have more good players to choose from.)

To clarify when I say lower overalls I mean lower than the requirements, as in like a few hundred WN8 lower.

[siciliano 1]

3 hours ago, mereelskirata said:

Well, I got into Bulba while having 55% and 1900 WN8  because I was better than my overall stats would suggest. Same with a lot of our recruits. I don't know how recruitment works on the EU server, but I would assume top clans make exceptions for great players with lower overall stats.

I agree man i played 9 k bettles on NA server and long time ago i was part of Relic A when they just was begining and at that time i was 52%or 53% win rate and WN8 1500 something like that. They do exception, chosing by evaluation, you platoon with 'em and they will vote + or -.

 

 

[SFC_Storm 58]

 

>Using WN8 to "improve"...

tl;dr:

Play2Win

Its not really to improve really. Im super competitive with myself and it bugs me that this tank seems to be one I really have no idea how well im doing in.

I never just use Wn8, ever. But I do use Wn8 as one part of my overall self ranking

W/R is obviously king, but since its a uber soft T6 and with the sheer amounts of T8 prems tend to be fighting higher tiers more often than other tanks. So a win is cool, but I also like to have a rough DMG number in mind so I can pace myself. Otherwise I yolo to often and end up losing more, esp on West. Because on west you need to stay alive till the very end, or risk losing a 5 tank to 2 advantage.

Anyways, I have some games in it where im sure I was amazing with 7 kills and 3500 DMG. But then others its 1k DMG and a kill for 3 straight t8 games.

 

TL;DR

Wn8 is just a easy metric to roughly get an idea of my playing. Instead of using RawDmg+W/R, I use Wn8+W/R and since Wn is more than just Dmg, I am hoping its a tad more accurate.

But Xte was a great suggestion by someone.