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gentillehawk

How is WOT currently

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  • WG has gotten much more cashgrabby in the last year. They claim that next year will be different, but that's what they all say.

What is the evidence of this?
They promised three branches in 2015, and when the Czech branch is released, that will be true.
Say what you want about Rampage and CW 2.0, but those were large content changes that don't have a cash-grab element.  
Is it just the load of premium vehicles that they have released?  Why complain about this content if it doesn't stop them from releasing the stuff they promised?  
Additionally, many of the premiums have been fantastic deals.  Like the Rudy and Bromwell.  Would you rather they NOT released those?

The phrase "cash grab" is everywhere, used by tons of people, especially when a new premium is announced, but I don't see it.

For some reason, people seem to get offended when something is offered that they are not interested in.  For such a broad audience, stuff is released for a wide range of people so that everyone can find something to be interested in.  

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Cash grab in that most good tanks/ships that people want for whatever reason is almost always attached to a "package" of other useless or unwanted shit to jack up the price. Also, limited time offers to make people think to grab the tank/ship or they will miss out on a Type 59 moment.

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Speaking of regression, WG has entirely killed the vision game which was one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game for me. Prok is the only map where vision matters anymore. Gone are the days where you could simply out skill your opponent by maintaining the proper vision at the proper locations at the proper time on a map. Some of the most satisfying games were ones where my sneaky light tank lit up the enemy and I watched them get wrecked. I knew that my advanced knowledge of the game won it in a fashion that the other team never had a fighting chance. Those games almost never happen anymore. And I would say that I get far fewer really satisfying wins than I used to in this game because of it. These days most of my "good" wins are ones where I merely farmed the hardest.

TFW you bush hopped to a BT 10+ Malinovka Assault win in your tier 6 LT. We'll never get that feeling again. 

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What is the evidence of this?

Additionally, many of the premiums have been fantastic deals.  Like the Rudy and Bromwell.  Would you rather they NOT released those?

 

You answer your own question.  The Berlin tanks and the Rudy coming with a crew that has BIA as skill 0 is blatantly better than any crew that can be obtained in game.  They are even better than the female crews, as BIA on the Berlin crews mixes with BIA on regular ones, whereas SoS doesn't

I'd say the best crews available in game only being available for cash is a pretty big cash grab. 

Also loved the recent contest NA had where all XP modifiers were counted and prem vehicles being sold that weekend got a x5 instead of the x3 all other vehicles got.  IIRC that contest was for a hype59 too, so another pretty bad cash grab.

 

Those are the ones that pop to the front of my mind, I'm sure if anyone felt like actually digging through the year's announcements they could find more 

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TFW you bush hopped to a BT 10+ Malinovka Assault win in your tier 6 LT. We'll never get that feeling again. 

Or crept slowly through the Malinovka magic forest and everything you lit got vaporized in seconds.

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You answer your own question.  The Berlin tanks and the Rudy coming with a crew that has BIA as skill 0 is blatantly better than any crew that can be obtained in game.  They are even better than the female crews, as BIA on the Berlin crews mixes with BIA on regular ones, whereas SoS doesn't

I'd say the best crews available in game only being available for cash is a pretty big cash grab. 

They are not the best crews you can get.  They are the FASTEST you can get a good crew.
Like many other games, you can get to the top level by spending lots of time training, or you can spend money to get to top configuration faster.  A good deal for the people who want them, but not debilitating to miss out on.

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So what has happened is that instead of fixing problems and improving existing game mechanics, WG has continually tried to 'nerf' skill - bush mechanics were changed, snap shotting accuracy was completely changed (forcing you to sit still longer so that you could be hit by return fire and arty), maps were changed/removed, the vision/draw distances were changed - all in the name of appeasing the lowest common denominator - lazy, unskilled players that continually complain about basics and defiantly refuse to learn them.  Every game is chock full of these individuals, and not only do they exist in this gaming community, but every other one as well (and they probably exist at the office/company/school that you work or study at).

Take for example, vision mechanics/meta of the game.  Red players complained that they were being killed by invisi-tanks and couldn't figure out how to deal with it (and still can't to this day).  So, they removed bushes.  WG changed maps, over the past year plus, to 2 or 3-lane corridors where it's close quarters, in-your-face brawling.  However, they failed to put in enough (or any) pathways to assist/flank in a timely manner to said corridors (because you know, that would be an 'intelligent thing' to do and we wouldn't want that would we?) and hardly any bushes to do any real scouting (remember the term 'passive scouting' from years back?)

Instead of finding ways to (1) encourage players to learn these mechanics and more importantly (2) improve upon said mechanics, WG simply threw up their arms and decided to dumb it all down, without understanding or worrying about the long term ramifications.  Namely, light tanks, practically the entire class, have lost out the most in terms of balancing and a concrete place in the game - hardly anyone knows how to play them properly.  Then there's been the always controversial arty, and not to mention a host of other problems that have led to a mass exodus, which is why this forum has become quieter and quieter with each passing week.

Thats not true, the entire vision meta camo sniper camp crap only happend for 2 reasons (actually 4, since arty nerf and gold ammo are also part of it)

1:  Changed mechanism of camouflage calculation when using camouflage pattern and camouflage net:

  • From now on, the values for vehicles with camo patterns and camo net will be cumulative.  This means that now the camouflage net and camouflage pattern will provide fixed bonuses which will only differ based on the class of the vehicle (for example, TD's will receive the highest bonus)
  • This means that the camouflage net and camouflage will give a significant camouflage bonus even for big turrets.
  • To avoid side-effects of having nearly invisible TD's, it was decided to decrease the overall camouflage bonuses provided by bushes and fallen trees by 20%.

2:

  • Changed the mechanism of shot accuracy calculation. Now amount of shells falling on side of the aiming circle will decrease by 20%. Shells will fly more accurately and closer to the aim center

These 2 changes allowed camo sniping, and the sigma ``nerf`` was only a minor correction compared to the mega buff, same the ``camo nerfs`` were nothing compared to the camo buff.

before 8.6 camo were all multipliers, so an E3 with almost zero basecamo (same camo as E5 origional) all of a sudden could hide behind 2 bush and be invisible, this was impossible before, same for maus, Jp-E100 and many other large TDs, 0 basecamo x 20% bush x 20% bush x 25% camo net = 0 camo

WG fucked up big time, and the know, they even fired to the guy responsible for this shit, i mean, patch 8.6 fucked the game, it was released in june and the head of balance department leaves in november...

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/24/24-11-2013/

Its also no coincidence that since 2014 was got no more new retard maps, all the reworks have been improvements and that many shitter maps are finally removed

People saying trash as Komarin, Svergorovsk (especially first version), sacred valley first version, north west, hidden village or the first version serene coast are good is delusional, those maps were all 100% totally retarded, 100% super ultra camp, ``you try?? you die!!`` arty could fuck you everwhere and all those maps should all rot on in hell, together with the idiots who made them.

Current maps have also flaws, but dont even dare to compare trash below:

Serene_Coast.jpg

 With Stalingrad

TL:DR: wot has (still) many flaws, arty, gold ammo, light tanks beiing useless, but the overall direction of the game is good, and the game as a whole is much better as say 9.0, tier 10 TDs are made really bad, camping is no longer ever prevenlant, most total turd maps are removed, most blatant OP or UP tanks were reworked, etc etc.

A lot still has to be changed, but the game is certainly better as a year ago

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Speaking of regression, WG has entirely killed the vision game which was one of the most enjoyable aspects of this game for me. Prok is the only map where vision matters anymore. Gone are the days where you could simply out skill your opponent by maintaining the proper vision at the proper locations at the proper time on a map. Some of the most satisfying games were ones where my sneaky light tank lit up the enemy and I watched them get wrecked. I knew that my advanced knowledge of the game won it in a fashion that the other team never had a fighting chance. Those games almost never happen anymore. And I would say that I get far fewer really satisfying wins than I used to in this game because of it. These days most of my "good" wins are ones where I merely farmed the hardest.

I agree with you to a large extent, but there ARE a few other maps (Malinovka, Redshire....) where one can still outsmart the opponent.

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They are not the best crews you can get.  They are the FASTEST you can get a good crew.
Like many other games, you can get to the top level by spending lots of time training, or you can spend money to get to top configuration faster.  A good deal for the people who want them, but not debilitating to miss out on.

They will be the best on a per game played basis.  Sure if you have a crew that has 10k battles, it will be higher, but compare it to any crew that has a similar number of games and the berlin/rudy crew blows it away (and will blow away the higher battle tank eventually too, given even games played from that point) 

And once again, they are only available for cash, hence the term cash grab.  While they are great, I'm not arguing they unbalance the game to the point of breaking it, but the only way to get crews that have the combined benefits they have is buying those tanks for $$.

Buy your gold up front for the year?  Fuck you, give us more cash, these aren't available for gold

Win gold in CW/skirmishes/tournaments etc?  Fuck you, give us some cash

 

It's certainly not the worst thing WG has done, but it's certainly cash grabby

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Thats not true, the entire vision meta camo sniper camp crap only happend for 2 reasons (actually 4, since arty nerf and gold ammo are also part of it)

before 8.6 camo were all multipliers, so an E3 with almost zero basecamo (same camo as E5 origional) all of a sudden could hide behind 2 bush and be invisible, this was impossible before, same for maus, Jp-E100 and many other large TDs, 0 basecamo x 20% bush x 20% bush x 25% camo net = 0 camo

TL:DR: wot has (still) many flaws, arty, gold ammo, light tanks beiing useless, but the overall direction of the game is good, and the game as a whole is much better as say 9.0, tier 10 TDs are made really bad, camping is no longer ever prevenlant, most total turd maps are removed, most blatant OP or UP tanks were reworked, etc etc.

A lot still has to be changed, but the game is certainly better as a year ago

A big difference between us, is the EU server still has a sizable server population.  For us here in North America, USWest has all but dried up - it has what? 4-6,000 ppl on for the majority of the day?.  Really all that's left is USEast.  Our combined server population is in the low 20k's during peak hours (I know your EU2 server to have over double that amount, and that's your 'smaller' server).  Numerous long-standing top echelon clans have disbanded or fallen into inactivity these past few months.  The player turnover/retention rate here is horrific - and a good chunk that has quit the game are between the green to purple skill ranges.  Most of the times when you load into a random match, it's a bunch of oranges and reds, and the few remaining purples who have stuck it out.

So yeah, just to clarify, the state of the game here in NA is not nearly as rosy as EU's.

To your points Gehakte, maybe I should clarify that I started this game at 8.6 in mid 2013. I didn't experience much of higher tier play that far back, with the exception of being able to see tier 10's in my old Chaffee, so our perspectives are different in those aspects.

 

When I talk about vision/camo mechanics, I'm not just talking about that ability of huge TD's and Heavies to double bush, but also the ability/opportunity for light tanks and other scouting-capable tanks to be able to do something about it, akin to Dualmaster's point about not being able to largely impact games via scouting anymore, which was what I also used to do. I still remember being able to light up the 'magical forest' on old Murovanka - things like that - being able to approach areas, because there was enough shrubbery around the map.  The changes I listed cumulatively have led to this situation - it's no single change alone.  Even when you're talking about the invisi-TD period, that's also possible cause you can shoot from 600-700+ meters, which has now also changed - everything is being pushed in closer.

 

And yes, all those changes that I listed have led to the disappearance of the 'vision' game - that's why many are switching out optics for vents, cause you simply don't have many areas of the maps where you're playing that scouting chess match . Instead WG has made changes to virtually ensure that lower skilled players can always see who is shooting them.  My question is why don't they teach or encourage people how to learn how to scout or control/manage vision on a map in the first place?  Or why don't they make it so that optics can only be put on light tanks and/or perhaps certain mediums?  Why don't they fix faulty, glitchy bushes that don't work, and moreover why don't they look at changing the sizing of the bushes themselves so that only perhaps light tanks and small meds can fit in them?

 

My point is that there a multitude of ways to solve these problems, yet WG's choices in how they've been making changes are by ingratiating and appeasing this portion of the player base that refuses to learn any such mechanics - and these mechanics don't include vision alone. And because of this, this is why such a large portion of the player base fails their way all the way to tier 10, without consequence.  And that drags down the meta-game development and is largely why the game is so stagnant.  Look at how Dota, LoL, CS regulates detrimental team behavior - we have none of that in WoT.  Again, I could go on and on, but that would be for another thread.

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Your crews are better per game played if you buy a premium account as well, and most people need to buy any gold that they use. I don't have a problem with this.  

Your 5 skill Obj 140 berlin crew is marginally better than my 4 skill Obj 140 crew, but we both grabbed the good skills first and are scraping the bottom of the barrel that deep into a tank.  The power differential is so minute that skill and even luck are going to determine the winner FAR more often than tank setup.  

I honestly can't tell if your gripe is legitimate, or if you are just acting entitled.  I have very little sympathy for "I want it but it costs real money", unless it is OP from a raw power level in battle perspective, and Berlin crews aren't, as they just save you time.  They are a company and deserve to get paid for their services.  

Things I'd consider to be cash grabs:

  • poor quality tank models (low effort, but expecting same payoff type things)
  • OP tanks
  • re-releasing things like the Type-59 back when it was still super strong
  • super premium account/tanks with very high costs and even better credits and xp.  

 

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I've spent plenty on this game, and bought a bromwell if we want to look specifically at the case we're discussing, so I'm not commenting from a place of wanting things for free.  WG is a business, and there's nothing wrong with them making money.

The topic though is cash grabs, and I would consider randomly adding crews that have BiA for free as skill 0 on the list of things that qualify.  You disagree, and that's fine.

 

I notice you didn't comment on the Type 59 contest (top prize also included a scorpion, 10k gold and 6 months prem) that was based on total XP (including multipliers) which gave x5 to the prem tank on special that weekend while regular tanks were at x3

edit; found that missions and it actually gave the prem tanks on sale that weekend 4 x5s a day, while everything else got 1 x3

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My biggest issues with WoT

1. Arty: Seriously, how can you still justify this as a mechanic in this game?

2. Premium ammo: Straight up P2W feature. Yes, you can use credits, doesn't change the fact it's P2W. (See AW for much better ammo mechanics)

3. Low tiers: This kills the growth of this game. Tier 1-2 are okay, but not great. Tier 3 and 4 are complete cancer. There are maybe 4 good tanks in each tier with everything else being complete crap that gets demolished the moment it has to fight something higher tier. This wouldn't be a big deal if it didn't affect the overwhelming majority of the tanks. This leads to people burning out quickly on the game and never coming back because their tank of choice sucks.

4. Crew skills: Please see AW or WOWS for crew skill ideas. NO reason to have 50% crews.

All of these affect new and old players. Older players know the problems with arty and prem ammo, and the lower number of newer players means the NA server at least is slowly dying.

 

That being said, the game is still quite fun (EDIT:) once you get past the shitty low tiers.

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I notice you didn't comment on the Type 59 contest (top prize also included a scorpion, 10k gold and 6 months prem) that was based on total XP (including multipliers) which gave x5 to the prem tank on special that weekend while regular tanks were at x3

I wasn't aware.  If you send me a link to the full rules of it, I'll take a look, but it sounds like a low blow as you describe it.  
Is there any chance it was two unrelated specials that matched up into a a stupid combo (stupidity rather than evil?), or were the two parts in the same article?  

As described, I'd say "cash grab" applies.  I just don't think they do it often, and I don't think they deserve everyone yelling it at them every time they make a new premium tank.  

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Additionally, many of the premiums have been fantastic deals.  Like the Rudy and Bromwell.  Would you rather they NOT released those?

 

I think this is pretty good proof of what happened this year. You are okay with the Rudy and Bromwell because they are good deals. Despite them being superior near-exact copies of tech tree tanks and adding almost nothing to the game, people like the Berlin trio because they can buy good premiums. They are some of the worst examples of premium tanks WG has yet released. So no, I would rather they not have released those. I'd rather have three unique premiums that don't make me feel like there's no longer any reason to ever own a T-34-85, Cromwell, IS, or IS-2.

Yes, they did what they said this year, but what else could they have done if they hadn't designed, implemented, and balanced the two dozen bundle-bound tanks they released this year? What if WG didn't attempt the terrible, backfired cash grab that was the emblem system? Maybe we could of seen a better tutorial, functional bots, well balanced new lines, or less rushed patches.

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I wasn't aware.  If you send me a link to the full rules of it, I'll take a look, but it sounds like a low blow as you describe it.  
Is there any chance it was two unrelated specials that matched up into a a stupid combo (stupidity rather than evil?), or were the two parts in the same article?  

As described, I'd say "cash grab" applies.  I just don't think they do it often, and I don't think they deserve everyone yelling it at them every time they make a new premium tank.  

http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/18/monster-showdown-contest/

http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/22/monster-showdown-2015/

They are pretty much designed as one event

This was the most blatant example I've seen from WG, and I won't pretend that it's this bad all the time, but it's certainly an example of cash grab

RaIThHN.png

BKIuaxJ.png

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I think this is pretty good proof of what happened this year. You are okay with the Rudy and Bromwell because they are good deals. Despite them being superior near-exact copies of tech tree tanks and adding almost nothing to the game, people like the Berlin trio because they can buy good premiums. They are some of the worst examples of premium tanks WG has yet released. So no, I would rather they not have released those. I'd rather have three unique premiums that don't make me feel like there's no longer any reason to ever own a T-34-85, Cromwell, IS, or IS-2.

Yes, they did what they said this year, but what else could they have done if they hadn't designed, implemented, and balanced the two dozen bundle-bound tanks they released this year? What if WG didn't attempt the terrible, backfired cash grab that was the emblem system? Maybe we could of seen a better tutorial, functional bots, well balanced new lines, or less rushed patches.

The Berlin tanks were a mistake from a premium/balance perspective.  They are definitely too good, and should have been worse than their counterparts.  However, I'd stop short of calling it a cash grab.  You aren't buying OP vehicles.  You are buying better credit potential and a faster training crew.  

The whole "if they hadn't done A, they could have done B" seldom rings true to me.  Creating a single premium vehicle is done with a ton of third part help, and is vastly different from building a new mode, or a new map or a new line.  You don't get functional bots just because you hold back a few premium tanks.  WG shouldn't hold back the low hanging fruit just because there are some tough challenges to work through.  

I'm ok with calling the emblem thing a cash grab.  But it doesn't seem complicated enough to suggest that we could have gotten a whole branch or some other major thing instead.  

---

Thanks @Kramburglar.  I agree with your assessment. 

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For a really, REALLY, casual player like me, the way I see it WoT is still fun. I know I do not have some problems you good players ^ have (Like arty focus and other shit) but for me it is still a fun game to play after a day of work/school. For me, as long as a tank isn't broken op, I don't care if WG releases it as a prem. The Rudy/Bromwell/IS-2 are all pretty much direct upgrades from their normal tank counterparts (Taking the credit making & crew training skills into account). Some things are total BS though like the pz 2j bundle with $100 of gold. That's an obvious cash grab imo, considering the pz 2j is broken op and there is no real reason to combo it will a ton of gold. As your average pubbie I still find myself enjoying WoT; when it stops being fun, I will leave. I think WG is doing a good job fixing WoT up, though it still needs a lot of fixes (ahem* arty). One thing though, what the heck was with the new Hovak engine or whatever? I'd rather never have heard about it then be teased by it and have them never follow through. Also, whenever I read a "WoT is dying" thread, I really don't think it is so serious as some people make it out to be. Balanced tanks like the Action X are being introduced, some really bad tanks are getting some love (Ferdi,T28 hp buff, etc). Now all WG needs to do is freaking fix the lower tiers. They SUCK. The fact that the Pz 2j is even ingame is pretty messed up. A friend I tried to introduce WoT to never made it past tier 5 :/ I think WoT could be fixed very easily, and I enjoy WoT just as much if not more than I did when I first started playing a few years ago. I just realized I rambled a lot and probably did not make sense but meh too late now. Bottom line, WoT seems to be getting better, albeit rather slowly. Anywho, good luck on the battlefield and happy holidays everyone! 

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I did actually leave WoTLabs when I first quit because just reading about the game made me want to play it again. Now I feel like I had the time away to finally conquer the demon of addiction within and I can return without being drawn back in.

Said the alcoholic as he tried just one beer......

 

(I do agree though that it is hard to get away from it..watching one of the men hating women's channel and up comes a wargaming commercial......)

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Said the alcoholic as he tried just one beer......

 

(I do agree though that it is hard to get away from it..watching one of the men hating women's channel and up comes a wargaming commercial......)

I am actually INCREDIBLY glad I stumbled through this addiction. I'm going to be opening a music venue in my smallish hometown and it's good to have seen the effects of addiction and come out the other side on something relatively benign. I hear it's very easy to fall into drug and alcohol addictions when you tango with night life in that sort of capacity. Now that I've seen my own weakness for what it is, I'm going to stay the fuck away from that stuff. Thanks, WoT!

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WoT is funny that way, if luck is on your side and that last session turned out great, then you can say that its a great game. But the moment that something random squats down and takes a dump on you in particular is the moment that the whole thing is just a regrettable waste of time. How many multiplayer games are out there that have so much power to make you miserable just because some random factor said so?

But hey, if you stick to the meta and play OP mediums then at least you'll have better odds of avoiding most of the BS. Still the question remains just how much BS are you willing to tolerate? How many arty shells before the ragequit?

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I'm really surprised WG announces arty rework and then buries it behind "but it has to take time" BS.

Arty rework done right would give them a large income bonus and Serb could continue building his orbital base.

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I'm really surprised WG announces arty rework and then buries it behind "but it has to take time" BS.

Arty rework done right would give them a large income bonus and Serb could continue building his orbital base.

I get the feeling that WG prime, rather than being a gaming company that is made up of people, is a bunch of people that happened to make a gaming company.  Egos drive decisions, and there are rivalries that cause people to dig their heels in, which, among other things, cause them to process things at the speed of molasses in winter.

Complete supposition on my part, from bits and pieces of stuff leaked throughout the years, but it certainly seems to be the case.

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"I'm going to be opening a music venue in my smallish hometown.."

 

Let us know when you get it established so we can cheer you on... or visit if we live close enough !!!

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