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Jagdpanzer IV gets a new gun

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WG in its infinite wisdom has apparently decided to give the pancake a new (fake) gun.

Looks like a TD version of the Konisch for all intents and purposes.

75mm Pak 41


Tier: 7
Price: 18300
Penetration: 157/221
Damage: 135/135
Weight: 720
Depression: -6/+15
Arc: L12/R12
Traverse speed: 35
Ammo: 62
Accuracy: 0.33
Reload Time: 3.8
Aiming time  - 1,5s

 

Ammunition


Pzgr. 41 StK (AP)

Projectile speed: 1170
Minimum penetration: 118
Maximum penetration: 196
Damage: 135

Pzgr. 41 HK (APCR)

Projectile speed: 1260
Minimum penetration: 166
Maximum penetration: 276
Damage: 135

http://ritastatusreport.blogspot.nl/2015/12/jagdpanzer-iv-new-gun.html

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Almost 2,400 DPM with a rammer.  

 

The 88mm is 2,700 DPM with a rammer and almost 3,000 DPM with rammer, vents, and BIA, but with less pen.

 

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See the cool thing about this new gun is that dank shell speed.

The 88mm seems like it is flinging potatoes.

All in all this is a MUCH welcomed changed to one of the WORST tier 6 TDs in the game.

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Looks pretty trash, useful in T8 games but really junks your T6 match capability, which is more important.

Would of been somewhat useful a couple years ago, when you could snipe to your heart's content. Now a low DPM, low alpha, middling pen 75mm on a T6 is the epitome of uselessness.

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useful in T8 games but really junks your T6 match capability, which is more important.

Isn't it the other way around?

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Isn't it the other way around?

I think the 88 will be much, much better in T6 games than the konisch.

Unless you mean T8 games are more important than T6 games. I'm just parroting nixon here - he's very good with data, and he mentioned that the winrate of a tank is highly influenced by its capability in same-tier matches. Capability as bottom tier doesn't mean much.

 

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Huh, interesting.

Though I figure people judge a tank based on its capabilities when outclassed, since that's when playing a tank is at its most miserable.

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See the cool thing about this new gun is that dank shell speed.

The 88mm seems like it is flinging potatoes.

All in all this is a MUCH welcomed changed to one of the WORST tier 6 TDs in the game.

I loved the JPZ4. Blitzed through it in like 40 games with an above average win and WN8 rate for me... the thing will always be epic in my memmories... not going back to it though :D

 

Huh, interesting.

Though I figure people judge a tank based on its capabilities when outclassed, since that's when playing a tank is at its most miserable.

Yeah but your carry potential is less... so you can influence the game i.e. winrate less than as top tier.

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I don't rly see the point with this gun. It is just a slightly beefed up 7,5 l70 with a bit more penetration. The only real advantage is the much better gold penetration. But balance tanks with gold shells is just fail. 

More penetration to the 88, because it is a PaK or whatever reason they have in mind, would be much more useful. 

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I don't rly see the point with this gun. It is just a slightly beefed up 7,5 l70 with a bit more penetration. The only real advantage is the much better gold penetration. But balance tanks with gold shells is just fail. 

More penetration to the 88, because it is a PaK or whatever reason they have in mind, would be much more useful. 

Shell velocity. The Pak 41 is essentially the Konisch you get on the 3601 and the old AFK panther. It's a squeezebore gun much like the Matilda's 2-pdr with the Littlejohn adaptor. You don't have to lead shots as much and the gun feels more responsive at all times.

Also lighter.

And lacks a HE shell, but who cares?

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Huh, interesting.

Though I figure people judge a tank based on its capabilities when outclassed, since that's when playing a tank is at its most miserable.

Oh, they generally do. It's just that winrate doesn't track that judgement very well. There's a consistent disparity between tanks that people think are good (damage, pen, speed), and tanks that are actually good at winning (often slow, heavy armour).

Neither approach to judging tanks is strictly right or wrong. On personal experience I'd go with your version, because I hated being incapable of killing tanks. I played the JP4 with the L70 and ~30% goldspam.

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I think the 88 will be much, much better in T6 games than the konisch.

Unless you mean T8 games are more important than T6 games. I'm just parroting nixon here - he's very good with data, and he mentioned that the winrate of a tank is highly influenced by its capability in same-tier matches. Capability as bottom tier doesn't mean much.

 

It is.  The 88 is the choice.  Very few effective armors are right in between 132 and 150, the difference in pen between the 75 and 88.  Your camo is great (best or second best IIRC) and speed good enough to get to spots where you are shooting the sides and rears of tanks where 132 is effective.  If the armor value of your known target was 160 you would load gold anyway. 

The guns have the same DPM if you are just sitting there kicking, but the %63 alpha difference between the 2 is very noticeable in most other situations.  Module damage is another consideration, sometimes 135 alpha wont track a tank, 220 will almost always.  This applies to all other module hitboxes too. Another often overlooked thing with more alpha is that you can high roll bigger, so you give yourself a chance to get "lucky."

In a tier 6 game the 88 with you can alpha strike out tanks very fast with the 88, especially with other tanks shooting them.  If you are the only one shooting them they will often back off after a 220 hit, that's 1/3 to 1/2 of the health of tanks you see.

 

Rexxie also implies an important concept.  When you are bottom tier your expected contribution is low.  In that case it is more important to land a few higher alpha shots than a few more low alpha ones.  It is also important IMO to take a calculated risk, since your expected contribution is lower your loss means little, but if you take a chance and "hit a homerun" then you are way over your expected contribution and can be decisive. 

 

I don't rly see the point with this gun. It is just a slightly beefed up 7,5 l70 with a bit more penetration. The only real advantage is the much better gold penetration. But balance tanks with gold shells is just fail. 

More penetration to the 88, because it is a PaK or whatever reason they have in mind, would be much more useful. 

The point is for the cheap players to be able to pen tanks and the really bad gold spammers to be able to sit in front of some tier 8 heavy and pen with auto-aim.  The JP4 is a difficult tank to play when you don't really know pen mechanics, weakspots, camo and spotting.

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Thing with the 88 is other than top tier you have to go running amok trying to play a medium tank role in a fixed gun TD. If you're going to do that you might as well do it in a tank which is built for that job, all the DPM in the world isn't worth being forced to fully expose yourself to take shots when you could be hull down peeking instead. This tank's platform is all about staying at range: very high camo, accuracy, shell velocity, fixed gun, small silhouette, etc. I prefer to leave the mediuming to the mediums.

With the 75mm you can play the traditional TD role fairly well, it still has top end DPM with exceptional accuracy and handling as well as good shell velocity, the only problem has been lacking pen against armored bricks. Now with solid pen it can deny an area more reliably than most TDs yet still has enough camo and mobility to relocate, unlike other top DPM tier 6 TDs.

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The point is for the cheap players to be able to pen tanks and the really bad gold spammers to be able to sit in front of some tier 8 heavy and pen with auto-aim.  The JP4 is a difficult tank to play when you don't really know pen mechanics, weakspots, camo and spotting.

 

But the cheap players wont rly pen more with this gun. The advantage over the normal 7,5 L70 is only 7mm pen. That is basically nothing. The only advantage is the premium amo.

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But the cheap players wont rly pen more with this gun. The advantage over the normal 7,5 L70 is only 7mm pen. That is basically nothing. The only advantage is the premium amo.

Shell velocity for standard ammo is increased by roughly 250m/s, which has to count for something.

I liked the thing well enough with the 8.8cm, and I don't think the new gun will get me to change my mind.  Still, a buff is always nice.

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It's good at reaching the 3rd MOEvery fast.

 

OK, this does imply it's rather bad.

??? I don't get it. I am pretty not good a player but I played this 40 battles, full module and JP grind and it's the only tank I have that's purple in my garage (others have less than 10 battles so they don't count). I think it was also the only tank I ever reached 1 MoE in 40 battles with... does that mean it's a bad tank or just that everybody  playing it is even more scrub?

I just checked and I aced it with 1044 raw exp. but wotreplays shows hellcat and Nashorn ace games at similar exp. 

I really liked this tank... :/ 

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??? I don't get it. I am pretty not good a player but I played this 40 battles, full module and JP grind and it's the only tank I have that's purple in my garage (others have less than 10 battles so they don't count). I think it was also the only tank I ever reached 1 MoE in 40 battles with... does that mean it's a bad tank or just that everybody  playing it is even more scrub?

Tank is meh => expected values are low ( just compare them to the su-100's) => purple is easier.

 

I mean, I didn't dislike the tank, but 3260 wn8 while failing to carry (54.45 W/R) seems pretty damning to me. 

 

 

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