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Prog 65 gun is not a downside. It has a tier X gun, that not all other tier 9 meds get. It is one of the lucky ones:

-- E5O, M46, T54, T54E1, Bat Chat all lack end-game guns

In addition, like the Action X and Leo, Prog 65  1O5mm is one of the few that also provide the bonus of high pen HE. It is of use in certain situations, especially when considering the versatility of auto-reloading VS autoloader

 

Autobounce is very important. It isn't essentially armour doing the work for you. It is angle. An Strv S1 can seem annoying to a plethora of enemies, yet it only has 3Omm of protection. A mere SK0DA T4O can shoot tier 6 HEAT, and go through it. But not all tanks have HEAT, not all players want to justify shooting prem ammo at something with 3Omm of armour either. Lastly, something like Pershing with whopping 268 APCR pen, will still ricochet off of it. Worse yet in favour of Prog 65, is the more relative thickness, which prevents most over match attempts. Basically, only TD will do it. The large surface area of the upper hull of progetto, means auto aiming against it in brawls, with standard 9O<->14Omm guns, basically 95% of your tank guns late tier.....means you ricochet with AP/APCR. 

It is not just me making up this shit. It is not new either, Strv have been pissing off people for a couple years already. QuickyBaby and Skill4 have both mentioned the annoying autobounce property of Prog 65. Not to mention the turret armour is 2.5x more too

 

I do not know how it is in EU, but for NA prog 65 isn't a competitive tank. It is a gimmick. As in, sure you can stomp pubs for 3.5K avg, but you won't see this in a CW. But you DID SEE TVP in CW. The -113 meta-  after its 2nd iteration of buffs, before BobJect, before IS7 re-balance, before Maus meta  &  Type 5 boomstick, before APCR super conqueror spam, before WZ5A release, before T11OE5 meta  --  the TVP was a large part of Bat Chat and 113 teams. In all honesty, NA never really had an APCR FV215B CW meta, it was Bat Chat, 113, TVP. 

I am not a czech med line advocate, trying to dis the Italian line. I know the Italian meds are nice vehicles. The prog 65 is certainly better than TVP. And prog 46 is certainly worlds ahead of Skoda T27. I just still think Skoda T5O is better than Standard B, just because I believe Standard B isn't as good as 46 or 65. And the Czech T5O has just so many good things going for it. By the way with the new PTA / T55A buffs, I certainly think those are better more complete meds anyway.

 

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 12:35 AM, Diriz0n said:

I am not a czech med line advocate, trying to dis the Italian line. I know the Italian meds are nice vehicles. The prog 65 is certainly better than TVP. And prog 46 is certainly worlds ahead of Skoda T27. I just still think Skoda T5O is better than Standard B, just because I believe Standard B isn't as good as 46 or 65. And the Czech T5O has just so many good things going for it. By the way with the new PTA / T55A buffs, I certainly think those are better more complete meds anyway.

What you are saying is illogical. You are saying Standard B isn't a good tank not because of what it is but because how it compares to other tanks in its nation. A tank is good or not depending on its performance, not depending on what it sits near in tech tree. 

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On 2/20/2020 at 6:35 PM, Diriz0n said:

I am not a czech med line advocate, trying to dis the Italian line. I know the Italian meds are nice vehicles. The prog 65 is certainly better than TVP. And prog 46 is certainly worlds ahead of Skoda T27. I just still think Skoda T5O is better than Standard B, just because I believe Standard B isn't as good as 46 or 65. And the Czech T5O has just so many good things going for it. By the way with the new PTA / T55A buffs, I certainly think those are better more complete meds anyway.

 

.......

What I am saying is purely logical. You just cannot read. You do not know to discern left from right I bet. You aren't an english major at all. And you don't proof read for work, my foot. I am not sure what you do, but you obviously don't know a thing about interpretation or communication or assertion or any prowess. 

I am not saying Standard B is not a good tank. Where did I say that. I am saying Standard B, is not as good as Prog 46 and 65, and Skoda T5O. 

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On 2/21/2020 at 7:35 AM, Diriz0n said:

Prog 65 gun is not a downside. It has a tier X gun, that not all other tier 9 meds get. It is one of the lucky ones:

-- E5O, M46, T54, T54E1, Bat Chat all lack end-game guns

In addition, like the Action X and Leo, Prog 65  1O5mm is one of the few that also provide the bonus of high pen HE. It is of use in certain situations, especially when considering the versatility of auto-reloading VS autoloader

Autobounce is very important. It isn't essentially armour doing the work for you. It is angle. An Strv S1 can seem annoying to a plethora of enemies, yet it only has 3Omm of protection. A mere SK0DA T4O can shoot tier 6 HEAT, and go through it. But not all tanks have HEAT, not all players want to justify shooting prem ammo at something with 3Omm of armour either. Lastly, something like Pershing with whopping 268 APCR pen, will still ricochet off of it. Worse yet in favour of Prog 65, is the more relative thickness, which prevents most over match attempts. Basically, only TD will do it. The large surface area of the upper hull of progetto, means auto aiming against it in brawls, with standard 9O<->14Omm guns, basically 95% of your tank guns late tier.....means you ricochet with AP/APCR. 

It is not just me making up this shit. It is not new either, Strv have been pissing off people for a couple years already. QuickyBaby and Skill4 have both mentioned the annoying autobounce property of Prog 65. Not to mention the turret armour is 2.5x more too

I do not know how it is in EU, but for NA prog 65 isn't a competitive tank. It is a gimmick. As in, sure you can stomp pubs for 3.5K avg, but you won't see this in a CW. But you DID SEE TVP in CW. The -113 meta-  after its 2nd iteration of buffs, before BobJect, before IS7 re-balance, before Maus meta  &  Type 5 boomstick, before APCR super conqueror spam, before WZ5A release, before T11OE5 meta  --  the TVP was a large part of Bat Chat and 113 teams. In all honesty, NA never really had an APCR FV215B CW meta, it was Bat Chat, 113, TVP. 

I am not a czech med line advocate, trying to dis the Italian line. I know the Italian meds are nice vehicles. The prog 65 is certainly better than TVP. And prog 46 is certainly worlds ahead of Skoda T27. I just still think Skoda T5O is better than Standard B, just because I believe Standard B isn't as good as 46 or 65. And the Czech T5O has just so many good things going for it. By the way with the new PTA / T55A buffs, I certainly think those are better more complete meds anyway.

 

 

Can you explain what you mean by this sentence? I'm confused and I think you are as well.

Autobounce is important when you can consistently use that armour. Because of the thin turret and thinner sides the Progetto cannot rely on its armour at all. It will bounce some, around ~.3 in terms of efficiency, but what this actually means is that you have a one more shot's worth of effective HP. This is useful, but I'd rather have all that armour piled on the turret for obvious reasons.

More importantly, neither the Czech nor the Spaghetti line are tanks that played properly should rely on armour. They have tools to avoid exposure and a clip to maximise burst. The Italian tanks even have pen and proper sniping guns for the roles they play. The Czech tanks have guns that aren't really suited for the meta, mounted on larger and less agile chassis, with less gun depression available. The point has been made again and again: it's hardly surprising that they've been left behind.

I suck in paper tanks but honestly on bursty autoloaders all I need is for the tincans to keep out HE. The tier 9 skoda has spaced armour and an IS-3 style slope on its sides which nobody ever talks about because it doesn't matter.  It's the same with the Prog 65's protection scheme. Neat, but hardly game changing.

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I got penned by a HE slinging grille in the Prog 65 just now which goes to show how fucking dog shit it's armour is overall. Which also goes to show how dog shit @Diriz0n's arguments are on here, which he can't even keep straight from one post to the next.

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Prog 46 > Skoda T27. 

Skoda T5O > Standard B

Prog 65 > TVP.

What we can assert from this basis is that:  Standard B does not live up to expectations and effectiveness, of either Prog 46 and 65 before and after it. And because of this point, Skoda T5O being better than T27 or TVP, a tank that is commonly known to be way better tier for tier, challenges and I personally think is superior to Standard B. I never said rely on prog 65 armour. Who the fuck said that? I said it has some bonus armour not expected, that can save you here and there. And you fucking just confirmed it, by stating that .3, which means 1/3rd of the damage you would expect to take isn't taken. And are you trying to saying Standard B has turret armour, opposed to Prog 65? What? 

You have to show the replay.

 

Prog 65 is not getting penetrated frontally by HE anyway  any time soon, unless your HE pen is 12O+  Which although certainly exists, isn't too common. Meaning you got outplayed and shot in the flanks. Grille max HE roll doesn't break through 12O either. Which being a flank shot, is fucking moot anyway, because the same shot would HE pen even traditionally more armoured meds like T62A or 121. 

So you are one of those guys that cries foul after some shit event that doesn't even take place 5% of the time? Here, let me help you out with that. Actually, not me, others will do it for me:

Skill4ltu:

"You can go cry in a corner"

"You took one for the team"

SirFoch: 

"Captain crayon over here...."

"and I cry every time"

"dude, what the fuck. Fuck you man"

Circon:

"What!!!!"

"Chat, did you see that!"

Shishx:

"Stop cry kid"

"Duck quack"

Truvoodoo:

"I recommend playing IS7"

- You can select any of the above.

Seriously, my heart bleeds for you. My sorrow, cannot be measured.  oh, and by the way, Skoda T5O protects you from that shit, why is that? Because I said why, 5 times before this post, which would not have happened to you in Skoda T5O opposed to Standard B. And you just said it doesn't matter, and it does fucking matter. Stop being a shitter, and putting yourself in shitty positions to be shit on. 

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On 2/25/2020 at 2:20 AM, Diriz0n said:

What I am saying is purely logical. You just cannot read. You do not know to discern left from right I bet. You aren't an english major at all. And you don't proof read for work, my foot

Sorry to be a dick here but you previosly were very negative and dismissive towards non engineering fields of study so I don't think you are qualified to judge others language skills. Same for logic. 

Also I have never said I'm an english major. Maybe work on your reading comprehension and memory. I'm an engineer who works with English text. 

 

On 2/25/2020 at 2:20 AM, Diriz0n said:

I am not saying Standard B is not a good tank. Where did I say that. I am saying Standard B, is not as good as Prog 46 and 65, and Skoda T5O. 

No. What you were saying is that Standard B is not as good as Skoda 50T because Standard B looks worse compared to Prog 46/65 than Skoda does to TVP VTU/TVP 50/51. That was your argument. 

Your argument for Standard B being worse than Skoda 50t had nothing to do with their comparative characteristics but more with how they look in their own threes. Which is stupid. Using that logic Venus Williams is a sub Par tennis player because Serena is better.  Standard B is better than Skoda 50t. You will see it once you start comparing the tanks of same tier.

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12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Prog 46 > Skoda T27. 

Skoda T5O > Standard B

Prog 65 > TVP.

What we can assert from this basis is that:  Standard B does not live up to expectations and effectiveness, of either Prog 46 and 65 before and after it. And because of this point, Skoda T5O being better than T27 or TVP, a tank that is commonly known to be way better tier for tier, challenges and I personally think is superior to Standard B. I never said rely on prog 65 armour. Who the fuck said that? I said it has some bonus armour not expected, that can save you here and there. And you fucking just confirmed it, by stating that .3, which means 1/3rd of the damage you would expect to take isn't taken. And are you trying to saying Standard B has turret armour, opposed to Prog 65? What? 

You have to show the replay.

 Prog65HE.jpg.03d59702328b0f56c3916b93a5755471.jpg

Prog 65 is not getting penetrated frontally by HE anyway  any time soon, unless your HE pen is 12O+  Which although certainly exists, isn't too common. Meaning you got outplayed and shot in the flanks. Grille max HE roll doesn't break through 12O either. Which being a flank shot, is fucking moot anyway, because the same shot would HE pen even traditionally more armoured meds like T62A or 121. 

So you are one of those guys that cries foul after some shit event that doesn't even take place 5% of the time? Here, let me help you out with that. Actually, not me, others will do it for me:

Skill4ltu:

"You can go cry in a corner"

"You took one for the team"

SirFoch: 

"Captain crayon over here...."

"and I cry every time"

"dude, what the fuck. Fuck you man"

Circon:

"What!!!!"

"Chat, did you see that!"

Shishx:

"Stop cry kid"

"Duck quack"

Truvoodoo:

"I recommend playing IS7"

- You can select any of the above.

Seriously, my heart bleeds for you. My sorrow, cannot be measured.  oh, and by the way, Skoda T5O protects you from that shit, why is that? Because I said why, 5 times before this post, which would not have happened to you in Skoda T5O opposed to Standard B. And you just said it doesn't matter, and it does fucking matter. Stop being a shitter, and putting yourself in shitty positions to be shit on. 

Lol. Yes, I was front on with a Prog 65 and a Grille with 75 pen HE penned me. No, i'm not crying, i'm pointing out that the Prog 65 has dogshit armour except for a trolly autobounce once in a blue moon, the same was the Standard B has dogshit armour and both Skoda's have dog shit armour. Skoda's get penned by HE all the fucking time, it's part of the reason i stopped playing it when Type 5 meta was a thing. The point being, NONE of these tanks have armour as a plus point - not a single one. Therefore, you compare them on their platform's mobility + gun dep and gun performance.

Tier for tier, the list looks like this:

1. Standard B

2. Prog 65

3. Skoda T50

4. 50/51

I doubt anyone except you disagrees with this list. Stop being contrarian for no fucking reason and accept when you are wrong, or at least that  your opinion is very clearly in the minority and very much goes against current meta.

Also, I feel it is important to challenge you on this because anyone who hasn't played either line who stumbles across this thread needs to know that what you're saying is incorrect, so they don't get super fucking disappointed when they grind the Skoda line and wonder why the fuck his tank performs like shit compared to all the Standard B's flying around.

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2 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Tier for tier, the list looks like this:

1. Standard B

2. Prog 65

3. Skoda T50

4. 50/51

 

I certainly can't argue with that. I *might* quibble that the Skoda T50, tier-for-tier, is still better than the Prog 65 with its long reload for a 4-round clip, but the counter argument is obviously the poor penetration values for the Skodas in an armor-heavy environment. I do have a soft spot for the 9s, and I like the tier, so I'd personally go with the StdB, T50, 65, 50/51 in that order...

 

Then again, what do I know, I'm terrible at tanks.

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

I certainly can't argue with that. I *might* quibble that the Skoda T50, tier-for-tier, is still better than the Prog 65 with its long reload for a 4-round clip, but the counter argument is obviously the poor penetration values for the Skodas in an armor-heavy environment. I do have a soft spot for the 9s, and I like the tier, so I'd personally go with the StdB, T50, 65, 50/51 in that order...

 

Then again, what do I know, I'm terrible at tanks.

Tbh 960 alpha is still monstrous for a tier 9 while the 65 sometimes doesnt feel like it has a clip at all. 

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

I certainly can't argue with that. I *might* quibble that the Skoda T50, tier-for-tier, is still better than the Prog 65 with its long reload for a 4-round clip, but the counter argument is obviously the poor penetration values for the Skodas in an armor-heavy environment. I do have a soft spot for the 9s, and I like the tier, so I'd personally go with the StdB, T50, 65, 50/51 in that order...

 

Then again, what do I know, I'm terrible at tanks.

 

15 minutes ago, lavawing said:

Tbh 960 alpha is still monstrous for a tier 9 while the 65 sometimes doesnt feel like it has a clip at all. 

That's fair. Maybe it is more Prog 65 = T50, depending on your preference for tier 10. I would agree in that if someone said play one or the other for 50 battles I would play the T50, if only because Tier 10 MM is so awful.

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You just agreed, because it wasn't me who said it. You are full of crap.

 

Post pics or it did not happen. Replay please. Prog 65 has two miniature pixels, 5Omm and vulnerable to 75 pen HE. The above pic is using 1O5mm HE pen Live Model from Cent AX/121B/Prog. And shows virtually nil vulnerability. If you were hit in either pixels, it is 1-in-250 chance you were shot there, essentially. 

I listed the characteristics why I believe Skoda T5O is better. It is not just because I said it is better, but because of better traits. If you don't want to read them, that is on you. You can dispute the traits, sure, but arguing that I think one is better than the other ''because I say so'' is stupid shit I never said. 

By the way, Sirfoch, Skill4, quickybaby have all talked about tanks like armoured cars, Skoda T5O, and Sheridan - tanks with large amounts of spaced armour surface area, protecting them from HE pen which despite their thin armour, still protects them from considerably against HE attack. If you wish to believe that doesn't fucking matter, that is on you and it is not only I who believe and know it. 

 

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11 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

You just agreed, because it wasn't me who said it. You are full of crap.

 

Post pics or it did not happen. Replay please. Prog 65 has two miniature pixels, 5Omm and vulnerable to 75 pen HE. The above pic is using 1O5mm HE pen Live Model from Cent AX/121B/Prog. And shows virtually nil vulnerability. If you were hit in either pixels, it is 1-in-250 chance you were shot there, essentially. 

I listed the characteristics why I believe Skoda T5O is better. It is not just because I said it is better, but because of better traits. If you don't want to read them, that is on you. You can dispute the traits, sure, but arguing that I think one is better than the other ''because I say so'' is stupid shit I never said. 

By the way, Sirfoch, Skill4, quickybaby have all talked about tanks like armoured cars, Skoda T5O, and Sheridan - tanks with large amounts of spaced armour surface area, protecting them from HE pen which despite their thin armour, still protects them from considerably against HE attack. If you wish to believe that doesn't fucking matter, that is on you and it is not only I who believe and know it. 

 

What is this, official forums?

And yes, of course I agreed with them - they AGREED that they Standard B was better than the T50, as per the entire point of this thread so far. I never really argued the toss about T50 vs Prog 65 tier for tier - please learn to read and stop being so pissy all the time.

Fine, i'll indulge you - here: http://wotreplays.eu/site/5251025#malinovka-snoregasm2-progetto_m40_mod_65. It's about 9 mins in - at a guess it hits the turret somewhere. I can tell you one thing - no fucking way that pens any Russian med, or even any US, Swedish or British med. Like I said - Prog 65 armour is dog shit, especially compared to the other tier 10 meds.

Also, maybe you don't rate the Standard B because you don't know how to play it? Here, I've also shared some gameplay of what it can do if played correctly. Note that the Skoda T50 get's max 4.5k dmg here, compared to the 7k the Standard B got because of the much superior gun/reload flexibility: http://wotreplays.eu/site/5251027#sand_river-snoregasm2-prototipo_standard_b

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On 2/27/2020 at 10:35 AM, Snoregasm2 said:

What is this, official forums?

Fine, i'll indulge you - here: 

Thanks. I saw what I needed to see.

 

Y0u were sh0t in the l0wer hull. 50mm turned flat, because y0u were reverse angled 0n a sharp m0und. Easy pen f0r 75mm HE, th0ugh a lucky sh0t nevertheless. Easy explanati0n. Th0ugh making y0u quite unlucky. That same sh0t has a chance t0 pen TVP, 121, 121B, Cent AX, STB1, UDES t00. Y0u basically thr0w a 50/50 dice, 76-80mm l0wer hull turned flat, vs 75mm pen. While definitely wrecking AMX and Le0. ....0nly E50, Fatt0n, RU meds are safe fr0m that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I recently 3 marked Škoda T50, awesome tenk and works very nice even in today's 430U meta

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On 3/21/2020 at 11:32 AM, igorCRO said:

I recently 3 marked Škoda T50, awesome tenk and works very nice even in today's 430U meta

The reqs are strangely low for it I noticed. Not to dunk on the achievement, congrats. It simply surprised me

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22 hours ago, hazzgar said:

The reqs are strangely low for it I noticed. Not to dunk on the achievement, congrats. It simply surprised me

Recently means like 1 year ago hehe

skoda-t50-3moe.jpg

BTW the requirements are quite high, around 3500 combined

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1 hour ago, igorCRO said:

Recently means like 1 year ago hehe

skoda-t50-3moe.jpg

BTW the requirements are quite high, around 3500 combined

Weird. Did not play for a few months. Maybe there was a strange drop? Dunno. 

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