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Gharirey

Campaigns – the doom of clans?

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Campaigns should be a highlight in WoT but in practise, they seem to spell doom and decline for clans. I think my own WoT clan-history provides a fairly stereotypical example:

 

1. Mass-desertion from F-OUT

I fought my first campaign 3 years ago (the second campaign with the VK 72.01 as reward). Back than I was part of a CW clan called F-OUT (green-blue playerbase with a handful of unicums in leadership roles). We were decent enough to land on the European parts of the CW map but never good enough to stay there long term. The campaign proved to be the high-water-mark for F-OUT and we secured the reward tank for practically all our active players.

But post-campaign activity dropped and recruitment deteriorated. As a result, the first mini-campaign 4 months later turned into a major struggle. Our main FC was overworked and the clan commander was increasingly growing disenchanted with his clan. Long story short: a few weeks after that crappy campaign, virtually the entire leadership left the clan and took most of our top players with them. In one swift move, a dozen of us joined SRSLY and F-OUT was practically dead.

 

2. The undignified decline of SRSLY

Honestly, the way we left F-OUT and entered SRSLY sucked ass. It may very well be the reason why I never grew as attached to SRSLY as I have been to other clans.

At the time, SRSLY was already past its prime as well. Nevertheless, it was still a top 20 clan on the European server. It had a good pool of FCs (Cassus was excellent, D4ADSHOT is very good and aleria, Oifson, FunnyBacon and later Jemster were solid enough). I played the next minicampaign as well as the third big campaign with SRSLY. We did well and had no trouble securing the tanks as well as a decent placement (23rd?).

However, in the aftermath, it became clear that the campaign had been our last hooray. FAME snatched up D4ADSHOT and GrandAdmiral (our best clicker and main force behind our stronghold activity) – f*** FAME! At the same time, Cassus virtually disappeared. The usual post-campaign activity issues and the loss of these three leaders, struck SRSLY hard. Practically overnight, the clan lost its competitiveness. Where we had been a constant presence on the European map before the campaign, we now failed in landing tournaments.

I was one of the first to bail but it didn’t end with me; over the next few months, SRSLY lost almost half its players. They tried to restock from their subclans (but those had never been anything but mediocre). Most importantly, the clan hasn’t succeeded in compensating for the loss of its two top FCs to this day. SRSLY has now been stuck in a steady downward spiral for a year and I doubt it will ever rise again.

 

3. LAVA - dying with dignity

Ok, LAVA did not die because of a campaign; but then again, we never played campaigns in LAVA. The other great clankiller (FAME) did have a hand in LAVA being disbanded. Thanks FAME – I love you! ;)

 

4. IDEAL – how WG f***s non-obligation clans

Judging from pure playerskill, IDEAL is by far the best clan I have ever been a part of. It also has the best leadership systems that I have ever seen.

But even a clan like IDEAL isn’t unaffected by the current WoT system. IDEAL was originally designed as a pure platoon-clan for top-level players. This relaxed existence was only interrupted by the occasional campaign.

 

However, WoT has experienced two major changes in the last 18 months:

 

First WG introduced the stronghold system. Suddenly a clan had to offer its players regular high, mid and low tier detachments as well as maxed-out credit boost. This has virtually split non-obligation communities like IDEAL. Some players are still only interested in randoms, whereas others are pressuring for more stronghold activity.

The resulting balancing act puts strife on the community, muddles recruitment priorities and is almost impossible to resolve without risking a massive exodus from one of the two groups.

 

The second change was the release of a deeply flawed CW 2.0. This has changed the nature of CW in general and of campaigns in particular:

Playing CW now requires influence as a resource. This forces any clan participating in CW or campaigns to grind influence in strongholds. This virtually doubles the time-investment needed to be competitive on the world map. The burden on FCs and players is bigger than ever and as a result, burnouts are at an all-time high.

Moreover, the chip-system was abolished, enabling clans to schedule as many battles as they can muster teams. The biggest factor during campaigns used to be the skill of your FCs and players. Now activity and skill are of equal importance. Unless you have a force of ridiculously active clan members, it is extremely hard to succeed in a campaign.

 

For IDEAL this change was the reason to join forces with S4AL and create a temporary campaign clan (PTS-D).

Obviously, such a drastic measure is dangerous to the stability of a clan. You risk losing members in the process; you may piss off those who didn’t want to be part of the merger as well as those who weren’t able to muster the required activity and were left behind without a chance to get the reward tank.

IDEAL got through it relatively well. But we are still facing the usual post-campaign drop in activity and need to recruit some new members.

Unlike SRSLY or F-OUT, this campaign won’t kill our clan but nevertheless it has put stress on the community and forces us to deal with problems that wouldn’t have arisen without a month-long grind for a rather useless tank.

 

Conclusions:

1.      Campaigns kill clans: This may sound overdramatic but campaigns are indeed catalysts for the decline of clans. FCs and players experience burnout and activity drops after every campaign. Even a clan that fought successfully during the campaign may not survive its aftermath. However, it is even worse for clans that underperformed since they almost inevitable lose some of their most valuable members who leave disappointed.

2.      Non-participation as a solution? “It is war and nobody takes part …” Sadly, players want their free tonks. It doesn’t matter how crappy the thing is (T23 pre-buff ffs! T95E6!), we want it! It doesn’t bother us that we waste dozens of hours, grinding famepoints evening after evening for several weeks, we want the freaking tank!

In consequence, any clan with a decent playerbase that decides not to participate is bound to lose members and is thus threatened in its existence.

3.      This forces every serious clan to play the freaking campaigns. The choice is merely theoretical. It’s virtually the choice between taking poison and having a dagger rammed into your stomach. You face the risk of death either way.

 

Solutions:

1.      Revert back to the chip system: This lightens the pressure to maximize activity. Having some members with low activity is less of a burden. Moreover, the workload for FCs is drastically lightened since there will be significantly less battles to command. The past campaign saw PTS-D fielding 60-70 players in peak-hours. We played more than 500 CW battles during the 4 weeks of this campaign. This level of activity almost inevitably translates into players being fed up and needing a major break from WoT now that the campaign is over. Obviously, this is bad for business. If someone plays your game so much that he becomes fed-up, he may not return.

2.      F*** the worldmap system and use a league/tournament system instead: Personally, I envision a tournament with a group phase as first stage (a clan plays one battle against every other clan in the group). In a second stage, this would be followed by a K.O. system in a best-of-five or best-of-seven format. The group phase could be tier VIII, the second stage tier X. This would have the nice side-effect to rid us of the retarded tier VI!

This system would provide great challenges to FCs and players alike. They would be forced to adapt strategies while facing the same opponent repeatedly. Especially during the final battles, the very best clans would face each other directly.

But most importantly this system would drastically lighten the workload for all those who want to participate in a campaign. Moreover, I believe this to be the fairest way to distribute reward tanks.

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IMO tournament system would be the best. WG needs to get their shit together and create one format to rule them all. This is fucked up. CWs, strongholds, ESL tournaments, WGL leagues, sheriff accounts... Can you imagine DotA or LoL or something like that with this system?

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Too many formats, too few players. I miss the days when people participated and TCs were the way to go. I was too much of a noob at the time to appreciate them, just like the KV-1S (back when it was tier 6). 

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What you describe is indeed a problem, many clans have faded away or are fading away, even KAZNA and EFE seem to strugle, PTS already died 3x by now and tons of other semi-top cw clans also are gone...

Just look Niklemos hes famous top 10 clan rating, how many top 10 clans still exsist?

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/222429-european-top-10-clans-march-2013/

1. [322] SKULL AND BONES (alive)
2. [PTS] PIRATES (dead)
3. [UNICA] UNICUMS INTERNATIONAL (dead)
4. [QV] QUO VADIS (dead, later exnom, part to FAME, rest dead?)
5. [EFE] EYE FOR AN EYE (almost dead)
6. [HAMI] HAMI'S 100 (dead)
7. [1SBP] PIERWSZY SARMACKI BATALION PANCERNY (alive)
8. [SKILL] SKILL ISLAND (alive)
9. [PANDA] EVIL PANDA SQUAD (dead)
10. [OMNI] ALL YOUR LANDINGS ARE BELONG TO US (alive)
11. [PRT] (dead)
12. [TA-RE] (alive) (dead)
13. [KAZNA] (alive)
14. [SAO] (dead)
15. [WHY] (alive)
16. [EFE-X] (alive)
17. [OM-V] (dead)
18. [IDEAL] (alive)

Thats 9/18 dead, including all the former big names, except one ^^ (and 322 was close to dead and is no longer what it once was...)

However since 322 doesnt play any cw related crap (i rather buy gold as play cw, srsly...) we choose:

 

Conclusions:

2.      Non-participation as a solution? “It is war and nobody takes part …” Sadly, players want their free tonks. It doesn’t matter how crappy the thing is (T23 pre-buff ffs! T95E6!), we want it! It doesn’t bother us that we waste dozens of hours, grinding famepoints evening after evening for several weeks, we want the freaking tank!

What is a problem is that many people do want reward tanks, so they leave 322 to join another clan to get a reward tank, its however always guessing who comes back and who doesnt, we lost every campaing a few players, we slowly gain back some players only too loose them next campaign again...

So we choose for no cw at all, since a casual clan who does everything gets more and more difficult, unless WG lifts 100 player limit...

ps: We also dont play any strongholds or teambattles and we most of the time also dont have a teamspeak server, and this sort of works, we do struggle a bit with inactivity, since many good players (in general) are playing less and less.

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I can't even remember the last time I played in a CWs match...

I would say its been well over 6 months since I actually played a battle on the new CWs map.

CWs 2.0 Creating less clan activity with less gold payout. And we wonder why tourney's are such a success, Better gold payout for less work. (Even tho I'm still waiting for Skirmish 49 gold which ended like 3 weeks ago... GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!)

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my clan awful was hit real hard with the is5 Campaigns and almost died, we survived but we lost lots of are top guys to other clans or they just quit tanks(rip mort and o7 2015).

  alot of ppl want to do this campaign.......it has me really worried about what might happen...........

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12. [TA-RE] (dead)*

*I corrected that for you.

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I can't even remember the last time I played in a CWs match...

I would say its been well over 6 months since I actually played a battle on the new CWs map.

CWs 2.0 Creating less clan activity with less gold payout. And we wonder why tourney's are such a success, Better gold payout for less work. (Even tho I'm still waiting for Skirmish 49 gold which ended like 3 weeks ago... GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE!)

ik that feel

 

I also went through the lists and found this team name to be pretty funny http://worldoftanks.com/uc/teams/169480-yoloswaggingbigClickSwingersClub/

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Current format with missions is okay, but fighting for 20+ days in a row is a little too much. At least WG decided to give tanks per clan, imagine what crap would it been if clanmates had to fight each other for the positions. That is the real clan killer. Further more, lack of rewards for the achieved positions calmed down the situation, as there was no real pressure (besides e-peen and e-fame) to achieve good results in the end. Completely wrong approach. If we are to fight each other, then there should be some rewards for (at least) top ten clans.

Tournament system will probably never replace the campaign/event format for one simple reason: there is too much red-yellow clans that won't win anything. We all know WG doesn't shape the game according to unicums (Deception tried to do something about that, we will see what changes will the future bring).

 

 

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NA lost a bunch of clans after CW 2.0 and the Clan League tourney. 

People will play their required 15 battles and then never log on again until they get the free tank. 

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Clans come and go.
SANTI and WORKS are not even 1 year old, and then you have 3XR and NOS that are somewhat over 1 year.

Always going to be drama that splits up communities, either by retarded leadership or majority being inactive (or both).
Only solution is just to find a new place to find friends to play with, or join that clan with your friends for the activity and/or finding more friends.

All depends what you're looking for.

 

I was pretty burned out from tanks after the 3rd campaign, but mostly because I spent too much time with managing it that it broke me.
This time it was all ezz, since now I only kept the clan with battle updates and battle schedules (That sometimes didn't work quite well :^DDDD)

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A lot of the clans Molen lists as dead are alive just under different names. Hami and Santi have the same core and so do FAME and PTS. If a clan is weak a campaign might lead to it's death because of the high activity required. By weak I don't mean player skill. I mean things like having the clan organized in a way that doesn't spread the workload enough or having multiple groups within who can't stand each other, stuff like that. Or you fail to reach the goals you set before a campaign. 

We as clan have always somewhat profited of this because naturally people want to play in the number one clan of the server. But we have our fair share of problems during a campaign, too. The difference is just that people are usually leaving to join better clans and that's not an issue we have because every clan is a step down from us (at least skill wise and I might surprise some here but we also have a pretty chill atmosphere). That's not meant to sound arrogant, I think it's the logical explanation for the longevity of most top clans and not just FAME.

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NA had a Clan League in Oct/Nov.  WOrked quite well.  It killed 6(I think) clans....

How many of the clans that were killed were because of Clan League and how many were just shown to be dead by clan league?

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What you describe is indeed a problem, many clans have faded away or are fading away, even KAZNA and EFE seem to strugle, PTS already died 3x by now and tons of other semi-top cw clans also are gone...

Just look Niklemos hes famous top 10 clan rating, how many top 10 clans still exsist?

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/222429-european-top-10-clans-march-2013/


5. [EFE] EYE FOR AN EYE (almost dead)

EFE is dead. The clan only exists only as a retirement home for old EFE accounts. No clan activity. Some of the international guys joined EFE X but not much and the Finns joined FIRE, rest is pretty much everywhere.

For me the main campaings are just too long. One month is more I can handle. The last one or two weeks I always hope it is over soon. It is rly somekind of burn out.

And the rewards getting shittier as well. The clan itself is not able to win any gold anymore. Just the tank for their members. And with the last campaign sucessfull CW players got the worst reward tank of all. This new murrican medium is literally the worst. This is also one reason why I did not care in the last campaign. Top 3 or 10 or even top 50 made no difference. All got the same.

One good thing. With the last two campaigns WG changed the famepoint system to the better again. As long you are in the clan and had your battles you get the reward unlike before you had to get a certain amount of points by your own. The rivalary in the clans when you had a lot of active guys was just horrible.

 

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The major bummer for this campaign was the reward/time-used rate.
1 shit tank for 26 days, without any gold whatsoever.

Why they decided to not include any gold reward just baffles me, as it didn't really differ at all what spot in the top 50 the clan was in, as it was either 0 or 100 clan licenses.
Should've had the 1mill gold reward for winners, 500k for 2nd, 250k for 3rd and 100k for top 10 and soo on.
Now that would've been something to fight for.
 

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A lot of the clans Molen lists as dead are alive just under different names. Hami and Santi have the same core and so do FAME and PTS. If a clan is weak a campaign might lead to it's death because of the high activity required. By weak I don't mean player skill. I mean things like having the clan organized in a way that doesn't spread the workload enough or having multiple groups within who can't stand each other, stuff like that. Or you fail to reach the goals you set before a campaign. 

We as clan have always somewhat profited of this because naturally people want to play in the number one clan of the server. But we have our fair share of problems during a campaign, too. The difference is just that people are usually leaving to join better clans and that's not an issue we have because every clan is a step down from us (at least skill wise and I might surprise some here but we also have a pretty chill atmosphere). That's not meant to sound arrogant, I think it's the logical explanation for the longevity of most top clans and not just FAME.

Fuck FAME, stealing all the potential Powerpuff Girls. :QQ:

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Fuck FAME, stealing all the potential Powerpuff Girls. :QQ:

To be fair though while the PTS-D move was a good idea from an activity standpoint you were bound to lose some guys over that...

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Yeh, I know. I advocated against it. But then again, there was no other way to play the campaign successfully.

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How many of the clans that were killed were because of Clan League and how many were just shown to be dead by clan league?

Clan League just happened to frustrate some clans enough to kind of dissolve or cease operations. It didn't outright kill any clans, CW 2.0 and to a certain extent, the direction that the game is going in did. 

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Yeh, I know. I advocated against it. But then again, there was no other way to play the campaign successfully.

Lazy fuck.

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