TVP T 50/51 Equipment

[Stige 103]

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

Looks about right, really. Too soon for BIA, IMO. As soon as it ticks over to its 4th though, BIA it breh. 

[Felicius 170]

Retrain loader in safe stowage + camo+ repair. You are still about half a million exp to the 4th skill, too long to go around without it, in case you wait 4th skill to do only one retrain.

FF is useless, especially on one crew member.

[Snoregasm2 646]

On 3/28/2016 at 0:45 AM, Felicius said:

Retrain loader in safe stowage + camo+ repair. You are still about half a million exp to the 4th skill, too long to go around without it, in case you wait 4th skill to do only one retrain.

FF is useless, especially on one crew member.

Come on man, read the previous page. Safe Stowage is useless, not FF. 25% reduced burn time is more useful than nothing at all.

[Felicius 170]

On 4/6/2016 at 3:37 PM, Snoregasm2 said:

Come on man, read the previous page. Safe Stowage is useless, not FF. 25% reduced burn time is more useful than nothing at all.

Well, for a paper medium tank that could be penned by lights (and will be once or twice, before you kill them), I would gladly take the chance to save the repair kit.

Hill on Mines rush for example...

63 % FF is 15.75% reduction, but fully trained FF reduces the burn to 50%, so it really saves only 7.8% of the total maximum possible burn damage, which is less than 5% of your hitpoints when on fire (and that is maybe once in 20 games), meaning you save about 20-30 hitpoints at best every 20 or so games (you need to lose a good chunk of hitpoints to be set afire - arty splash or some pesky little autoloader like bulldog for example)

And when contesting critical early damage farm spotting positions i do get shot by lights often, since many ppl run them for missions.

We are basically discussing a difference between a green and brown poo, both are shit anyway, i concur. 

If the loader is a radio operator, i would take SIA. Since it is not...other skills are useless for me, since i am too poor to run food, besides those gained by missions/specials.

[Snoregasm2 646]

1 hour ago, Felicius said:

Well, for a paper medium tank that could be penned by lights (and will be once or twice, before you kill them), I would gladly take the chance to save the repair kit.

Hill on Mines rush for example...

63 % FF is 15.75% reduction, but fully trained FF reduces the burn to 50%, so it really saves only 7.8% of the total maximum possible burn damage, which is less than 5% of your hitpoints when on fire (and that is maybe once in 20 games), meaning you save about 20-30 hitpoints at best every 20 or so games (you need to lose a good chunk of hitpoints to be set afire - arty splash or some pesky little autoloader like bulldog for example)

And when contesting critical early damage farm spotting positions i do get shot by lights often, since many ppl run them for missions.

We are basically discussing a difference between a green and brown poo, both are shit anyway, i concur. 

If the loader is a radio operator, i would take SIA. Since it is not...other skills are useless for me, since i am too poor to run food, besides those gained by missions/specials.

Dude, as I said, READ THE PREVIOUS PAGE. I mean, is it hard?

Safe Stowage has ZERO effect on whether an ammo rack is damaged (for guns less than 90mm only - which is 0 tier 8, 9 or 10 guns).

Even with a light tank, it wouldn't stop your ammo rack being damaged, it would just reduce the chance by a negligible (20%?) amount. So a tier 7 light like the M41 would either dmg your ammo rack with the first shot if he got lucky or definitely with the 2nd shot TWO seconds later.

Also, it isn't the hitpoint advantage when you're burning that is good about FF, it's the reduced module dmg, which is a lifesaver and saves vastly more repair kits than SS would.

[Felicius 170]

"For the 50/51 it increases your racks' HP from 260 to 293. If it drops below 180 with or without it, it turns yellow. In order for your ammo rack to get hit and not turn yellow, you need to take a shot that deals 80 module damage (or less) without stowage, or 113 with safe stowage.

Basically, safe stowage on a 50/51 will stop your ammo rack from always turning yellow from 90/88/85mm cannons. It will do nothing against anything 100mm+. Up to you what that's worth." Rexxie

Sometimes I am slow on the uptake side...I came here on wotlabs to learn from better players than I am (many are in differend dimension better), and still have a lot to go.

What is the meaning of the Rexxies quotation? I believed that  Damage vs. Modules for example 105 from M41 Bulldog will make ammo rack yellow without safe stowage, and not with it? Am I mistaken?

Also, to leer from the topic a bit, since I plan on keeping the Tier 9 T 50, which has ammo rack 220 and not 260 as tier X, is it more or less viable on that tank?

I hope i have not be too ignorant, I do try to get the best crew setup for such a sweet tank. Only 100 k Exp more to go, on Tier 8 grind for now.

[Rexxie 10,788]

41 minutes ago, Felicius said:

"For the 50/51 it increases your racks' HP from 260 to 293. If it drops below 180 with or without it, it turns yellow. In order for your ammo rack to get hit and not turn yellow, you need to take a shot that deals 80 module damage (or less) without stowage, or 113 with safe stowage.

Basically, safe stowage on a 50/51 will stop your ammo rack from always turning yellow from 90/88/85mm cannons. It will do nothing against anything 100mm+. Up to you what that's worth." Rexxie

Sometimes I am slow on the uptake side...I came here on wotlabs to learn from better players than I am (many are in differend dimension better), and still have a lot to go.

What is the meaning of the Rexxies quotation? I believed that  Damage vs. Modules for example 105 from M41 Bulldog will make ammo rack yellow without safe stowage, and not with it? Am I mistaken?

That's correct, safe stowage will save your T50/51's ammorack from a M41 shot. You do need to be a bit realistic here though; the M41's 76mm is incredibly tiny, you'll struggle to get shot by a gun that small. It's the gun safe stowage counters, so using it as an example is a but unfair.

Either way it's splitting hairs - you're still right that safe stowage isn't completely useless. I'd have a hard time saying it's better or worse than Firefighting, both are downright terrible. We're talking making a difference in every 200 vs every 205 battles, it really doesn't matter.

[Felicius 170]

Well, maybe it is of low use, but at least I know when it will be useful and when it will not, depending on team composition and the likely positions i will contest. Beside Mines, Karelia doughnut and Tundra hill comes to mind too, and I am sure there are many more.

FF is usually useful when you are screwed anyway, set on fire without AFE is usually a death sentence due to module damage it makes/takes to being lit in the first place (ammo rack, engine...)

Simply, there are areas where i must take that one shot to conquer, and often fast squishy tanks like AMX 13 75/57 will go there, too. Despite them being autoloaders, I can often avoid being clipped in return by staying on the side of the contested areas that have support from behind, and waiting for them to unload on the my teammate that comes right behind me before i proceed to kill them.

Situation awareness is a much better skill for loaders, too bad so few tanks have it.

[Snoregasm2 646]

12 hours ago, Felicius said:

Sometimes I am slow on the uptake side...I came here on wotlabs to learn from better players than I am (many are in differend dimension better), and still have a lot to go.

What is the meaning of the Rexxies quotation? I believed that  Damage vs. Modules for example 105 from M41 Bulldog will make ammo rack yellow without safe stowage, and not with it? Am I mistaken?

Also, to leer from the topic a bit, since I plan on keeping the Tier 9 T 50, which has ammo rack 220 and not 260 as tier X, is it more or less viable on that tank?

I hope i have not be too ignorant, I do try to get the best crew setup for such a sweet tank. Only 100 k Exp more to go, on Tier 8 grind for now.

 

11 hours ago, Felicius said:

-snip-

Sorry, I didn't mean to snap. Of course you're trying to learn ad we will all try and help you. A big thanks to @Rexxie who has done all of the actual maths calculating how useful this shit is.

I would still say FF is better, as once 100% it is a 12.5% reduction in burning (which can a) be the difference between dying and not and b) reduce module damage). As there are no real viable driver skills either, that's two crew members you can train this on as a 4th skill if you choose. Once you get to the 5th skills on the other guys, you can say 'fuck vision in the current meta' and train them as well. A full crew with 100% FF is a MASSIVE advantage, as that in turn allows you run Food as safely as you can, which is a tidy 10% bump to everything.

You have to think long term like this. FF eventually allows you to have a skill on all crew members which is basically a Vents x2, without much of a downside ( a full FF obviously reduces burn by 50%, but also helps with module damage significantly, meaning you don't need to use your rep kit after a fire some of the time - this saves it for later if you get tracked or lose your ammo rack).

[Felicius 170]

Too poor to run food...have no premium acc or premium tanks (besides Tog, Dicker max and tier 2-3 shit I won/got for free, or a B2 German premium i got with Italieri Model kit). It is already a drain for me to use double repair kits (E5, WZ-111 1-4...) and enough HEAT for hard targets in tier 9-10, so i play lower tiers to compensate.

So, no FF for my crew...besides, some tanks never burn, like E 50 M, so no use of FF anyway, food or no food. I do not have much flammable tanks anyway.

That spreadsheet is pure gold.

 

[Snoregasm2 646]

On 4/8/2016 at 1:59 PM, Felicius said:

Too poor to run food...have no premium acc or premium tanks (besides Tog, Dicker max and tier 2-3 shit I won/got for free, or a B2 German premium i got with Italieri Model kit). It is already a drain for me to use double repair kits (E5, WZ-111 1-4...) and enough HEAT for hard targets in tier 9-10, so i play lower tiers to compensate.

So, no FF for my crew...besides, some tanks never burn, like E 50 M, so no use of FF anyway, food or no food. I do not have much flammable tanks anyway.

That spreadsheet is pure gold.

 

In that case, I agree will be completely useless for you.

The sad fact is that a lot of crew skills and equipment in this game serve virtually no purpose. Loader skills after the 3rd skill being a prime example, or a wet ammo rack.

[Private_Miros 2,966]

How does one hit the red tanks in this tank...? Seriously, I haven't played a more inaccurate tank and I cannot get my head around the why how and what.

[engineered 499]

39 minutes ago, Private_Miros said:

How does one hit the red tanks in this tank...? Seriously, I haven't played a more inaccurate tank and I cannot get my head around the why how and what.

I'm at the T-50 and I find it to be pretty accurate.  Maybe a bad run of RNG?

[Private_Miros 2,966]

12 minutes ago, engineered said:

I'm at the T-50 and I find it to be pretty accurate.  Maybe a bad run of RNG?

 

Perhaps, first 10 battles were extremely bad in it. Now I've played 3 and had two top guns and over 5k damage :/

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

1 hour ago, Private_Miros said:

How does one hit the red tanks in this tank...? Seriously, I haven't played a more inaccurate tank and I cannot get my head around the why how and what.

Turn on Color-Blind mode, red tanks all gone!

[Stige 103]

On 4/12/2016 at 7:40 PM, Private_Miros said:

How does one hit the red tanks in this tank...? Seriously, I haven't played a more inaccurate tank and I cannot get my head around the why how and what.

I find it to be quite the opposite. You can keep your mouse1 held down for the duration of the 4 shots and somehow they all land in the middle of the aim exactly. And this happens rather often too. This thing snap shots way too good for an autoloader with such a short intra clip reload.

[lazydot 99]

On 3/18/2016 at 2:51 PM, Siimcy said:

I'd agree upon what X3N4 suggested. Any improvements to gun handling > more vr in the current maps we're getting most of the time.

X3N4 just doesn't like to spot for plebs (esp. if you think about new grills) and keep the farming for himself.

It looked like EGLD on t9 was really helping with gun handling, but on t10 i'd go for optics all day long, gun handling is IMO much better on t10 without than on t9 with EGLD.

Without optics and good crews you can't outspot anything but something like ru heavies and even can't spot for yourself from "safe" distance late game.

Example 50/51 with vehicle camo+camo skill@100%+vent+food (436m VR) vs same 50/51 but +optics (480m VR):

Source: http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

Distance you will spot enemy if he is:

stationary - 324.78m.
moving - 349.89m.
shooting - 413.02m.

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 355.81m.
moving - 383.76m.
shooting - 445.00m

 

 

 

Example 50/51 with vehicle camo+camo skill @100%+vent+food (436m VR) vs same 50/51 but +optics+sit. aw. (498m VR):

Distance you will spot enemy if he is:

stationary - 324.78m.
moving - 349.89m.
shooting - 413.02m.

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 368.77m.
moving - 397.90m.
shooting - 445.00m.

 

 

This difference is significant IMO.

.

[Siimcy 3,522]

9 minutes ago, lazydot said:

X3N4 just doesn't like to spot for plebs (esp. if you think about new grills) and keep the farming for himself.

It looked like EGLD on t9 was really helping with gun handling, but on t10 i'd go for optics all day long, gun handling is IMO much better on t10 without than on t9 with EGLD.

Without optics and good crews you can't outspot anything but something like ru heavies and even can't spot for yourself from "safe" distance late game.

Example 50/51 with vehicle camo+camo skill@100%+vent+food (436m VR) vs same 50/51 but +optics (480m VR):

Source: http://www.wotinfo.net/en/camo-calculator

Distance you will spot enemy if he is:

stationary - 324.78m.
moving - 349.89m.
shooting - 413.02m.

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 355.81m.
moving - 383.76m.
shooting - 445.00m

 

 

 

Example 50/51 with vehicle camo+camo skill @100%+vent+food (436m VR) vs same 50/51 but +optics+sit. aw. (498m VR):

Distance you will spot enemy if he is:

stationary - 324.78m.
moving - 349.89m.
shooting - 413.02m.

Distance the enemy will spot you if you are:

stationary - 368.77m.
moving - 397.90m.
shooting - 445.00m.

 

 

This difference is significant IMO.

.

Well, he's not wrong. There's literally 0 point to spot for your braindead monkeys you call teammates, but for when you need vision control I'd say it's worth it. I'll probs stick with gun handling stuff.

[Snoregasm2 646]

On 5/30/2016 at 4:00 PM, lazydot said:

It looked like EGLD on t9 was really helping with gun handling, but on t10 i'd go for optics all day long, gun handling is IMO much better on t10 without than on t9 with EGLD.

I'll just leave this here (50/51 left, T 50 right):

Aim Time (secs)	2.01	2.11
Accuracy	0.34	0.34
Dispersion (moving)	0.18	0.18
… (tank traverse)	0.18	0.18
… (turret traverse)	0.10	0.10

 

They have exactly the same gun handling, except very slight aimtime differences. If anything, it feels better on tier 9 due to 1.8 second intraclip as opposed to 1.5 seconds.

[Fulcrous 2,073]

Bit late but for players still inquiring about the tank... I personally run optics vents vs.

The main reason I run optics is because I can't rely on pubbies to do the spotting.

Currently averaging 3.8k DPG (still trying to hit that 4k) and I don't need to use food when I'm low on credits.

[leggasiini 1,567]

On 6.6.2016 at 3:37 PM, Snoregasm2 said:

I'll just leave this here (50/51 left, T 50 right):

Aim Time (secs)	2.01	2.11
Accuracy	0.34	0.34
Dispersion (moving)	0.18	0.18
… (tank traverse)	0.18	0.18
… (turret traverse)	0.10	0.10

 

They have exactly the same gun handling, except very slight aimtime differences. If anything, it feels better on tier 9 due to 1.8 second intraclip as opposed to 1.5 seconds.

It further feels even better on Skoda because TVP has higher top speed = loses more dispersion when moving 

[Meirzin 284]

How does the tvp hold up in the current meta? I have it researched but need a lot of credits to buy it. 

[igorCRO 45]

23 minutes ago, Meirzin said:

How does the tvp hold up in the current meta? I have it researched but need a lot of credits to buy it. 

It doesn't.

[BlackAdder 1,390]

On 1/8/2018 at 8:30 PM, Meirzin said:

How does the tvp hold up in the current meta? I have it researched but need a lot of credits to buy it. 

Dunno about 50/51, but i had lot of fun games last week in TVP50. Despite overbuffed tanks, this still can mess up every crippled tank. This is example of shitty city 600x600 map, and my team sold me worse than judas sold jesus. 

Still nice clean up at end, and i didn't manage to run away. Also i was too brave in the beginning and i gabbed Type4 AP and some other shit reducing my chances later on. I can imagine 50/51 being better just because that one more shell. Will do some games this week.