Why am I so much better with the T54E1 than the AMX 50 120?

[Ketzstar 2]

Hello fellow Forumites,

I registered just for this question, but more might follow:

As the title impilies, i am rather fond of my performance in the T54E1, but horribly suck in the AMX 50 120.

Pictures of my stats are attached. There you may see, everything is better in the T54E1, including Armor Use (wtf?).

As you might see, I am no total scrub, I am performing very well in other Tier 9 tanks like the T-54 (but who doesn't?), Obj 704 or T-10 (all sitting nicely at 61-63% WR).

But: AMX 50 120: 49%

What I have experienced so far, is, that even though the damage in the game might be fine, I really struggle to carry a game in the AMX - a task that feels much easier in the T54E1 - Even though the latter is slower, has less standard and gold pen (but I am using 90% standard ammo in both tanks) and should theoretically be worse armored.

Here are links to my most recent games of both tanks, feel free to criticize me:

AMX 50 120:

• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414011?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414059?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414074?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414075?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414084?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf

 

T54E1:

• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414088?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414096?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414097?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414102?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf
• http://wotreplays.com/site/2414106?secret=2237d993a771f91a27bc45c1f7c632bf

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[CarryMode 209]

I haven't watched the replays, but the reason might because the T54E1 is just a better tank in almost every way.

[monjardin 1,014]

The T54E1 is a better tank. /thread

Seriously, the T54E1 has a quicker burst, better soft stats, MUCH better gun depression and elevation, troll angles on the turret, etc. Overall, the T54E1 is just plain easier to use.

Penetration and perhaps sniping accuracy are the main advantages of the AMX 50 120. That's not as big of a deal in the corridor meta. 

[Ketzstar 2]

That might be true. So maybe I should rephrase my question: How do I get better in the AMX 50 120?

[woe2you 367]

 

That might be true. So maybe I should rephrase my question: How do I get better in the AMX 50 120?

Be aware of spots where you can work a tank with poor elevation and depression. Squeeze out as much damage as you can on flat maps, and finally sell it with a sigh of relief because the 50B is better in every way.

[Dodge94HUN 264]

I guess you play passively. My spots aren't good either but yours are way belove 1.

The 50 120 is more of a snipy, support tank, while the T54E1 is more like a second line supporter. The AMX is accurate and has really nice penetration while the T54E1 has a quick burst potential. And ofc you have better armor useage in the T54E1, since it has silly angles and shit. The AMX's armor is his/her/its HP(are tanks males or what?).

All I can tell you are basic things:

• Do NOT trade one for one. You are an autoloader: trade one for a clip if possible.
• NEVER engage more than one target at a time. Same reason why you don't trade one for one.
• Although you are an autoloader, you don't have to always empty your magazine if you are getting shot at. If you have only time for two shot, don't risk the third: pull back, reload and pop up again when they are not looking.
• Always have a cover where you can reload. ALWAYS.

 

I only played the T54E1 on the test server but I liked the 50 120 more because of the much more reliable gun.

[Nekommando 386]

 

That might be true. So maybe I should rephrase my question: How do I get better in the AMX 50 120?

You get better when you get 50B

[leggasiini 1,562]

Because T54E1 is better?

The problem with 50 120 is that it has paper armor like other high tier Frenchies. The thing is, however, that unlike things like Lorraine, 50 100, Bat or 50Bae, 50 120 isnt simply mobile enough to justify huge profile + lack of armor. Another letdown is terrible in-clip reload, godawful gun handling and terrible elevation values, which severely hampers its close-combatting options and basically forces it to play at range if possible. With the corridor meta like we have now, however, there is just situations where you are forced to get close. 

[OOPMan 1,266]

The AMX 50 120 is horrifically bad in the hands of most people. I gave up on it and free XPed past it. There are a few 50 120 wizards out there but for most players it's a tough tank to do well in.

In particular, the terrible gun elevation on the 50 120 will get you killed more often than you think. The terrible aim-time, so-so accuracy, paper armour and huge size also contribute.

[Dodge94HUN 264]

 

The AMX 50 120 is horrifically bad in the hands of most people. I gave up on it and free XPed past it. There are a few 50 120 wizards out there but for most players it's a tough tank to do well in.

In particular, the terrible gun elevation on the 50 120 will get you killed more often than you think. The terrible aim-time, so-so accuracy, paper armour and huge size also contribute.

I don't know whether I am wizard with it or not but I absolutely loved it and I think it is a great damage dealer in T9. I will buy it back some day and raise my battles with it over a thousand

[OOPMan 1,266]

 

I don't know whether I am wizard with it or not but I absolutely loved it and I think it is a great damage dealer in T9. I will buy it back some day and raise my battles with it over a thousand

Good for you. Most people find it hard to love ;-)

[kolni 69,670,772]

How to get better in every single tank in the game:

Load goddamn gold you poor third world peasants

[Nekommando 386]

 

How to get better in every single tank in the game:

Load goddamn gold you poor third world peasants

You still have to hit to do damage. Gold ammo does not negate trash bloom

[CarryMode 209]

 

How to get better in every single tank in the game:

Load goddamn gold you poor third world peasants

It's problem isn't with the penetration though, its just a shit tank.

[Nekommando 386]

AMX 50 120 would be balanced if:

the intradrum is also 2.73 second, like almost all the French autoloaders.

Seriously, 50B has a comfy 2.5sec, T54E1 is 2.2s and none of them were brokenly OP. 3.33 second? WTF

 

[Dodge94HUN 264]

 

You still have to hit to do damage. Gold ammo does not negate trash bloom

It has the exact same bloom as the T54E1 and it is more accurate, so I think this is a false statement.

 

 

AMX 50 120 would be balanced if:

the intradrum is also 2.73 second, like almost all the French autoloaders.

Seriously, 50B has a comfy 2.5sec, T54E1 is 2.2s and none of them were brokenly OP. 3.33 second? WTF

 

If you want to stay accurate with the 50 100, Lorri, or even with the T54E1, you will have to wait more than 2,73 or 2,2 second between shots. Fair enough the 50 120 in close combat is a quite inferior to the T54E1, but on longer distances the T54E1 will have similar effective-DPM, since it will have to wait more than 2,2 seconds between shots.

On the other hand: other french autoloaders have 2,73 intraclip reload time for 240 or 300 alpha, while this gun has 400 alpha. You need to expose yourself for 15 second with the 90/100 mil guns to deal 1800 dmg, while you do 1600 damage in 10 seconds with the 120 mm one. I think it is quite a fair deal.

[Zinn 1,333]

My 50 120 sits at a cheeky 68,5 WR after 70 battles but I honestly can't tell you why I win because I play it like shit. Maybe I just have great target selection priorities because 1980 DPG is not how to super-uni WR in most vehicles

It's a pretty bad tank, though, the intra clip time is way too long for typical autoloader duties at tier 9. The primary strenght of an autoloader is supposed to be its burst potential but since it takes 10 god damn seconds to unload, you will have been hit twice in return which isn't worth it in most cases. If you also count aim time and reversing back into cover, those 10 secs can easily grow much longer. On top of that, the tank's weakspot is the gigantic turret, whereas it's a reasonably strong point on a T54E1 that gathers a fair amount of troll bounces.

Essentially, you have a T54E1 with slightly more damage per clip but has to sit exposed for longer with a bigger weak point and less opportunities to fire due to shit elevation/depression. In contrast, the T54E1 can solve its gun-related problem by going closer to the enemy and actually burst it down.

[_Assad 3,538]

The only redeeming feature the 50 120 has is its apcr ammo

[FavreFan4ever 281]

The 50 120 is an example of a tank that sacrifices almost everything to get a godly gun, only to get saddled with some of the worst gun handling in the game.

OP: Be careful about trying to force a clip in the 50 120: an engagement where you take one hit and give two is better than one where you take two and give three. The temptation is strong to just sit there and unload on a tank, but your hp is the only armor you have on this tank. Use it wisely.

All things considered, you are doing better in your 50 120 than I ever did in mine. I doubt I am saying much that you don't already know.

Best of luck with your grind, the 50B is worth the pain that is the 50 120.

 

 

[Felicius 170]

Its the curse of matchmaker.

Imagine the team setup...you are in a tier IX battle, with 3-4 top tiers, and mostly tier VIII tanks...every heavy, even lower tiers could autoaim the 50 120 and trade shots...

And the enemy has the E 75, which just butcher half your team on one flank, or hold the tank alley with just a bit of support, while his teammates crush the other flank.

This tank can not push or guard a line, and autoloader has too big downtime.

T54E1 will get matched against enemy Loe pta, E 50 and T-54s, all the tanks you can penn, and has tight enough clip to shoot 4 for one in E 50, and 4 for 2 in T-54, all very favorable. Autoloader downtime is not a big deal in meds, but it is in heavies - toptier heavies must carry game all the time, by damage done, deterrence and armor.

Meds can flank - and 50 120 could be a med...but then, you have your tier VIII heavies matched against enemy IX at brawl zone...and you do not have gun handling and depression/elevation for proper flanking.

Also, T54E1 has a lot of autobounce angles, negating autoaim ...especially HEAT.

[Dodge94HUN 264]

If you let lower tier tanks to deal one for one with you in a T9 autoloader, you are doing something really really wrong, man.

This whole example is silly imho. You think that a T54E1 will only shoot at mediums, or the 50 120 will have to "tank" for the team? I mean come on... this was just plain stupid.

Yet again you try to say that the 50 120 has shitty gun handling, but the T54E1 has the exact same bloom values, so I don't really see how shitty gun handling is not a problem with the T54E1 for you.

[Spectreniner 107]

 

The T54E1 is a better tank. /thread

Seriously, the T54E1 has a quicker burst, better soft stats, MUCH better gun depression and elevation, troll angles on the turret, etc. Overall, the T54E1 is just plain easier to use.

Penetration and perhaps sniping accuracy are the main advantages of the AMX 50 120. That's not as big of a deal in the corridor meta. 

this

[DexFreak 3]

I am one of those who free XPed the 50 120, however, just as you, I do better in the T54E1. Just try to adapt what everyone said, be a support tank, and never do a spearhead attack, or else, you'll be dead in the first 5 minutes of the battle.

[hazzgar 698]

 

If you let lower tier tanks to deal one for one with you in a T9 autoloader, you are doing something really really wrong, man.

This whole example is silly imho. You think that a T54E1 will only shoot at mediums, or the 50 120 will have to "tank" for the team? I mean come on... this was just plain stupid.

Yet again you try to say that the 50 120 has shitty gun handling, but the T54E1 has the exact same bloom values, so I don't really see how shitty gun handling is not a problem with the T54E1 for you.

T54e1 won't only shoot at mediums and he didn't say that or didn't say that you have to deal 1 vs 1. 

The problem is.

1. T54e1 is better brawler than the 50 120 even though 50 120 takes up a heavy slot, while the t54e1 takes a medium slot. So the difference in brawling capability between a team of equal compositions but one has t54e1 and other 50 120 is -2 in brawling capability.

 

2. t54e1 is harder to damage by lower trier tanks. I know it's easy to say don't get hit but flanks fail, idiots from other team yolo you or simply shit happens. In such cases the t54e1 will bounce more because it has some armor that is actually quite usefull against enemy tanks (especially autoloading lights and high dpm meds which can wreck the 50 120 before it kills them). The 50 120 is also easier to hit because it's humongous. So crossing open areas (yes we have to do this from time to time) is a bigger risk.

 

3. Faster intraclip also means less exposure so again lower chances of getting hit in the t54e1. 

 

Overall the t54e1 is just better at close range fighting and avoiding damage. It's a great tank for the current meta. The 50 120 is a horrible platform for the current meta. Autoloaders still give you tons of leverage so that's why you do good in it (hell and even my scrub ass managed to pull 53% wr in it but I managed to get 57% in my t54e1).

 

[Dodge94HUN 264]

 

T54e1 won't only shoot at mediums and he didn't say that or didn't say that you have to deal 1 vs 1. 

The problem is.

1. T54e1 is better brawler than the 50 120 even though 50 120 takes up a heavy slot, while the t54e1 takes a medium slot. So the difference in brawling capability between a team of equal compositions but one has t54e1 and other 50 120 is -2 in brawling capability.

 

2. t54e1 is harder to damage by lower trier tanks. I know it's easy to say don't get hit but flanks fail, idiots from other team yolo you or simply shit happens. In such cases the t54e1 will bounce more because it has some armor that is actually quite usefull against enemy tanks (especially autoloading lights and high dpm meds which can wreck the 50 120 before it kills them). The 50 120 is also easier to hit because it's humongous. So crossing open areas (yes we have to do this from time to time) is a bigger risk.

 

3. Faster intraclip also means less exposure so again lower chances of getting hit in the t54e1. 

 

Overall the t54e1 is just better at close range fighting and avoiding damage. It's a great tank for the current meta. The 50 120 is a horrible platform for the current meta. Autoloaders still give you tons of leverage so that's why you do good in it (hell and even my scrub ass managed to pull 53% wr in it but I managed to get 57% in my t54e1).

 

So you will basically compare two tanks based on situations which greatly favours one of them. I hope you see the problem with your comparison now...

Things the T54E1 has over the 50 120:

• Better intraclip and better reload time
• Better armor
• Better gun elevation and depression

 

Things the 50 120 has over the T54E1:

• More accurate and better at long range
• Much better penetration
• Marginally better alpha damage
• Faster (great ram-capabilities)

 

In a nutshell: the T54E1 is a brawler, with great burst potential at low ranges, while the 50 120 is all about the gun on a worse platform. The 50 120 is much better on longer ranges (where the intraclip reload time does not matter all that much) but it can be awkward due to the limited gun elevation and depression angles.