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Shade421

Why the NA server should just be put down

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A question from a curious by-stander who doesn't have any opinion in the whole AW being a WoT-killer or not:
Has this "wasteland" of an NA server been coming for a long time (as in, gradual degrade over time), or did it happen more rapidly after a few specific updates/patches? Was the NA server ever at any good/healthy levels in regards to population?

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I think the introduction of so many new tier 6 premium tanks over Christmas and with collector packs cough Merc, negatively affected the player base for PVP.

because of their limited match making they created a sheltered environment where they were top dogs beating up tier 4&5 players who got their first tier 4 or 5. When these players reached tier 6 vehicles they got dragged up into higher tier games against 7&8 which isn't good seeing how redundant a tier 6 vs a tier 8. Its been stated multiple times that past tier 6 the game balance is distorted.

Introducing tier 9 vehicles made game balance worst. and pretty much killed off high tier PVP

TD rebalance in 0.12 drove the lovers of TD up the wall and out of the game in disgust, thinking it was Obsidian way of promoting a MBT meta. Also other classes suffered from a new camo system which destroyed their only advantage against MBTs, another buff for the MBT meta  

T-90MS best tonk ever Russia stronk. they un-nerfed the T-90MS lower glacis in 0.12 it was the best christmas gift ever that a T-90MS driver could ask for ask intumesce.   

For PVE when the 0.12 update rolled out they turned the mode into HE spam, everything that could shoot HE did it and they made stupid decisions making tier 9 vehicles able to be down tiered and able to face tier 5 vehicles in PVE hard missions, would you like to get instantly penetrated by an M8 Thunderbolt that has 606mm of APFSDS. or get HE spammed in lightly armored vehicles. So PVE became MBT meta and the arty situation in PVE of concentrated fire and blind fire is not helping the player base of PVE. The introduction of more enemies in PVE and randomized spawns aka if your in the wrong place at the wrong time you are dead, and the lackluster response to give PVE a small income boost in the meantime to cover the cost of using repair kits has fallen on deaf ears. While they work on a harder PVE mode that matches PVP difficulty then it will match PVE income with PVP.  

 

TL:DR: TOO MANY PREMIUM TONKS, SEAL CLUBBING 4&5s, SHIT PVP PASS TIER 6, 9s RUIN BALANCE, CAMO NERF BUFFS MBTS. PVE RUINED IN 0.12 NO INCOME BUFF PVE MBT META REINFORCED.                

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I think the server has been shrinking because of lack of content, lack of improvements and lack of incentive, mostly incentive.  It's hard to enjoy a pvp/rvr game with low population when you see the same people over and over each match, which generally means the same 6 shitlords on your team causing you to lose.  OE hasn't given much incentive for people to come back or keep playing since the exp and credit grinds on the tanks are incredibly long, The premium tanks are far superior to the same tier non-premium and the content has been added glacially slow.  Add to that, the recent patches have just been nerfs to existing tanks or next patch nerf to commander skills, when there's few good commanders with even fewer good skills and they're shooting themselves in the foot.  The lower the population gets from the lack of incentive, the more it fail cascades since you get matches where one team gets a platoon of tanks +1 tier higher than anything on the opposing team. 

 

I tried WoT again after 6-8 months of inactivity and it's in the stone ages mechanically compared to AW.  AW is more challenging, more fun and much less RNG bullshit, Obsidian is just mismanaging it to death much like Mythic did with DAoC or WAR. 

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2 hours ago, Vitellius9 said:

It's hard to enjoy a pvp/rvr game with low population when you see the same people over and over each match, which generally means the same 6 shitlords on your team causing you to lose.

The last few days this has been a problem in reverse. Had several matches where the red team had a "purple" platoon and I was always on the other side fighting them. Every. Fucking. Match. I had to drop down three tiers to get away from them. Shit got old. 

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Playing at 200+ ping is doable for WOT but just not possible for AW. As Carbon said earlier trying to hit weakspots at 200 ping is just an easy way to lose. Add to that the fact my connection to the states has been horrible the last 3 months and pretty much anything USA based is unplayable for me. These are my personal problems but I continued to persevere even though I knew I was crutch to my teams because I really wanted AW to succeed and be my next big game.

Unfortunately the low server pop, especially at the times I play make for long wait times, which combines with my frustratingly bad connection to the US make the game pretty much dead to me. It seems like this game is pretty well stillborn at NA. Which is a real shame.

12 hours ago, Vettish said:

The last few days this has been a problem in reverse. Had several matches where the red team had a "purple" platoon and I was always on the other side fighting them. Every. Fucking. Match. I had to drop down three tiers to get away from them. Shit got old. 

Story of my life I don't platoon but always seem to be matched against otter/badgr/relic platoons on other side. Which is fine sometimes but it was over and over again. I had to literally drop back by 3 tiers to lose them, who the fuck wants to be doig that all the time. 

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Oddly, I do just about average versus those platoons, through no fault of my own.  I usually use some logical tactic and position and die to said platoon, only to have the pubbies all lemming train and win.  This game seems much harder to influence than WoT.  

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20 hours ago, WaterWar said:

A question from a curious by-stander who doesn't have any opinion in the whole AW being a WoT-killer or not:
Has this "wasteland" of an NA server been coming for a long time (as in, gradual degrade over time), or did it happen more rapidly after a few specific updates/patches? Was the NA server ever at any good/healthy levels in regards to population?

It was never any good. It's been shitty since before beta. To the point that for one of the early access tests they shut down the NA server and merged us with EU. Since it went open beta, it's been slowly declining, but always very low.

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Im pretty sure EU is suffering from declining population, just that the base # is much higher so its not being noticed.

 

You don't release a game with no End-Game content and expect people to stick around. WoT had CW a month after release i believe (released on April 2011 and CW active by may), its been 4 months for AW and still nothing for people who have ground to the top, and frankly, unless you can find a platoon for PvP, its fucking boring as hell.

I went to one of those TS meetings OE had for clan leaders of WoT and scrubs like me, and people were suggesting things like "command vehicles" and "alliance systems", but as i've said back and now, nothing will save your game if you don't release something fast, even if its flawed or just a copy of WoT.

I mean, imagine if WoW released back in 2005, instead of releasing Molten core ASAP, they just raised the level cap to 70 without any more real end-game content, how many people would of sticked by that?

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This week has been the worst for me in the PVP queue. Last night we weren't even getting full matches at tier 6 (non-premium). The low population just exacerbates the problem with MM. Most matches the teams were unbalanced and it's just RNG to see what side of it you are on.

At tier 6, when it puts two tier 7 MBTs (Leo 2 and Chally 1) on the enemy team and gives you a Wiesel and a cent 120 as your tier 7s there is only so much you can do. The low population is driving the nail into the coffin, but I doubt OE are going to do anything about it.

Quote

I mean, imagine if WoW released back in 2005, instead of releasing Molten core ASAP, they just raised the level cap to 70 without any more real end-game content, how many people would of sticked by that?

WoWs has seemed to do OK so far without any end game content and managed to maintain it's population. I haven't played since late November so it could have changed since then, but it wasn't uncommon to see 10-12k online in the evenings. I do agree that not having an end game is really bad and a huge oversight. The top clans/players in AW waiting for end game content and also spend money on this game aren't going to sit around and twiddle their thumbs for much longer.

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10 hours ago, CarbonWard said:

Im pretty sure EU is suffering from declining population, just that the base # is much higher so its not being noticed.

most likely yea, during the headstart I met a guy I knew from WoT, joined his group of 20ish players that support the game since the start (they spend 100-200 euros on the game each)... None of them are active any more and will not return either. Im visiting the forum every once in a while and reading patch notes (and the hilarious anti-wot circlejerk threads), but OE does way too little to stop the decline and focusses on the wrong areas.

PvE seems to be keeping AW from drowning atm, but the imbalance it created and the splitting of the user base it caused have created a downwards spiral, which might be irreversible.

 

37 minutes ago, Wolfcastles said:

WoWs has seemed to do OK so far without any end game content and managed to maintain it's population

Didnt they implement seasons? That is at least a competitive mode that keeps people busy.

Edit... y no merge :/

Merged for you - Shade

Edit: thanks! <3

Edited by Epic

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1 hour ago, Wolfcastles said:

This week has been the worst for me in the PVP queue. Last night we weren't even getting full matches at tier 6 (non-premium). The low population just exacerbates the problem with MM. Most matches the teams were unbalanced and it's just RNG to see what side of it you are on.

At tier 6, when it puts two tier 7 MBTs (Leo 2 and Chally 1) on the enemy team and gives you a Wiesel and a cent 120 as your tier 7s there is only so much you can do. The low population is driving the nail into the coffin, but I doubt OE are going to do anything about it.

WoWs has seemed to do OK so far without any end game content and managed to maintain it's population. I haven't played since late November so it could have changed since then, but it wasn't uncommon to see 10-12k online in the evenings. I do agree that not having an end game is really bad and a huge oversight. The top clans/players in AW waiting for end game content and also spend money on this game aren't going to sit around and twiddle their thumbs for much longer.

WoWS has ranked battles. While it's still a pubbie match it does provide a slightly more competitive atmosphere and there are bragging rights for people who reach rank 1.

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1 hour ago, MntRunner said:

WoWS has ranked battles. While it's still a pubbie match it does provide a slightly more competitive atmosphere and there are bragging rights for people who reach rank 1.

I guess that's enough to attract/retain the competitive players who would eventually participate in clan wars. I don't really see it as end game content other than just giving the players another competitive outlet. 

Even if AW implemented a clan skirmish type battle system (similar to WoT) next month would it even make a difference in population? They can even use the same format as your personal base, just expand it to clan wide and maybe start off with tier 6 only skirmishes since the game is still relatively balanced at that tier.

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WoWs grind is considerably slower than AW, so many people are still on the grindwheel.

 

OE on the other hand, did the dumbest thing one could ever do.

"Hey guys, we know our end-tier PvP is incredibly imbalanced, but why don't we introduce a couple of 3x exp weekends and let everyone reach end-tier?" 

 

**Off topic, WoWs benefits from WoT significantly and i feel that they are not taking full advantage of it, you can easily boost playerbase and activity rate by weekly missions such as "play x amount of battles in WoWs for exp/credit boosters in WoT" and vice versa. Part of the reason why planes also failed is due to WG squandering their homefield advantage.

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End tier pvp isn't actually nearly as imbalanced as everyone seems to think...

Then just for shits and giggles, let's go around spewing nonsense about how unbalanced it is to literally everyone everywhere just to make absolutely sure that when balance changes are made, no one is there to test them. like this patch that just went out. Completely changed tier 9. And no one is playing it.

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3 hours ago, CarbonWard said:

**Off topic, WoWs benefits from WoT significantly and i feel that they are not taking full advantage of it, you can easily boost playerbase and activity rate by weekly missions such as "play x amount of battles in WoWs for exp/credit boosters in WoT" and vice versa. Part of the reason why planes also failed is due to WG squandering their homefield advantage.

WG tried to implement cross-title rewards and events with Planes and Tanks (literally play X battles for gold, two crossover tourneys), the end results were nightmarish. It is sort of understandable why WG is playing tippy toes aside from them being completely incompetent.

IMO one major lifeline for Ships right now is all the weeb content satisfying the weaboos. Throw in some anime girls and people will play it no matter what.

 

AW has already started the death spiral, unless something drastic happens it will just keep sinking. I witnessed this first-hand for Planes (I have no shame), it's hard for me to not recognize AW running the same path.

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1 hour ago, Shade421 said:

End tier pvp isn't actually nearly as imbalanced as everyone seems to think...

Then just for shits and giggles, let's go around spewing nonsense about how unbalanced it is to literally everyone everywhere just to make absolutely sure that when balance changes are made, no one is there to test them. like this patch that just went out. Completely changed tier 9. And no one is playing it.

Imbalanced might've been the wrong word.

I think the right word would be "Dynamic", I think this can be drawn to a parallel to World of Planes when it was just released.

A single player, no matter how good, cannot influenced the battle enough without teamwork(which of course, you will get none in pubs), but due to how important altitude was in WoWP, a platoon of german jets/heavy fighters could easily, and I do mean easily, reach 95% winrate. This becomes increasingly evident the as you go up in tiers. Same thing in AW, frontal armor is nearly impossible to penetrate, flanking/overpowering attacks becomes the only sure way to win, but to do so you need a good team or platoonmates, solo play becomes frustrating as you simply can't do what wins you fights most of the time.

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5 hours ago, CarbonWard said:

Imbalanced might've been the wrong word.

I think the right word would be "Dynamic", I think this can be drawn to a parallel to World of Planes when it was just released.

A single player, no matter how good, cannot influenced the battle enough without teamwork(which of course, you will get none in pubs), but due to how important altitude was in WoWP, a platoon of german jets/heavy fighters could easily, and I do mean easily, reach 95% winrate. This becomes increasingly evident the as you go up in tiers. Same thing in AW, frontal armor is nearly impossible to penetrate, flanking/overpowering attacks becomes the only sure way to win, but to do so you need a good team or platoonmates, solo play becomes frustrating as you simply can't do what wins you fights most of the time.

Very well put.  Couldn't agree more.

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The main issue is that I just don't feel like playing a grindy ass game. I bought a bunch of stuff on the Steam summer sale and its a better use of my time than WoT/WT/AW/WoWS.

 

The concept is good, but all of them substitute grinding for content. And I say that as someone who enjoys Diablo/Path of Exile

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46 minutes ago, DracoArgentum said:

The main issue is that I just don't feel like playing a grindy ass game. I bought a bunch of stuff on the Steam summer sale and its a better use of my time than WoT/WT/AW/WoWS.

The concept is good, but all of them substitute grinding for content. And I say that as someone who enjoys Diablo/Path of Exile

The point of the grinding is meant to give you end-game content which you felt you earned through hard work.
I don't think any high tier competitive play would be as fun if you just had all tanks unlocked with max crew skills and infinite credits.

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On 1/18/2016 at 2:07 PM, Shade421 said:

It's dead. It's fucking empty unless you play tier 6, and then it's still pretty empty. Glossing over the fact that tier 6 is shit, you can't play more than a few matches a day. You either sit in the queue forever just to get some shitty 7v7, or you go play EU. Not to mention that 7v7 you get is going to be half full of retards that do nothing but spam 3 man tier 9 platoons all day every day (and still somehow lose more than me), and the other half the same lost retarded inbreds that were in the last match you got. And that's it. That's NA PVP, in its entirety. At this point, the game could be the best optimized, most bug free, well balanced tank game the world has ever seen, and it would still just die on NA, because the server is so fucking empty it's almost impossible to believe the game isn't dead. i did not like the EU only server during the EA, but now, there's no other way. Numbers will just fall more and more unless they advertise, which they won't.

So anyone have any logical reason the NA server should stay open?

In my experience, it doesn't take too long to get an PvP fight. PvE easy @ tier 5 on the other hand, is an different story. The highest I've gotten in AW is my only Tier 5: The Chieftain, but even then it;s still disappointing. As for the teams, an lot of people migrated from WoT, what did you expect, an bunch of Harvard graduates playing AW? 

 

As for server population; I would say that it's in beta and it's new, but that horse has been mauled to death.

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On 1/21/2016 at 9:44 AM, CarbonWard said:

A single player, no matter how good, cannot influenced the battle enough without teamwork(which of course, you will get none in pubs), but due to how important altitude was in WoWP, a platoon of german jets/heavy fighters could easily, and I do mean easily, reach 95% winrate. This becomes increasingly evident the as you go up in tiers. Same thing in AW, frontal armor is nearly impossible to penetrate, flanking/overpowering attacks becomes the only sure way to win, but to do so you need a good team or platoonmates, solo play becomes frustrating as you simply can't do what wins you fights most of the time.

As a solo player only at this stage, my WR has fallen from about 53% to 46%. At the start the server pop was high enough that you could actually have games that had people you had never seen before. Now it is the same people over and over and Mm seems to keep you separated all night long. So if there is a platoon of Otter abusing reload bug, they will be on the other team all night along and you will see them nearly every match. The pop is so low that MM can't really do anything else.

 

On a side note I have lost count of how many iron stars I have. The players in AW seem to be just as bad or worse than WOT. Like WOT platoon padding WR seems to be a thing.

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31 minutes ago, Acumen said:

As a solo player only at this stage, my WR has fallen from about 53% to 46%. At the start the server pop was high enough that you could actually have games that had people you had never seen before. Now it is the same people over and over and Mm seems to keep you separated all night long. So if there is a platoon of Otter abusing reload bug, they will be on the other team all night along and you will see them nearly every match. The pop is so low that MM can't really do anything else.

 

On a side note I have lost count of how many iron stars I have. The players in AW seem to be just as bad or worse than WOT. Like WOT platoon padding WR seems to be a thing.

1. Reload stacking was not a bug/exploit/cheat/whateverthefuck the pubbies on the forums cried about it being. It was using the retrofits and crew skills to do EXACTLY what the descriptions said they did. If you want to see an actual bug, look here: 

 

2. As a solo player in the high tiers, I managed a 63% overall win rate over 500 battles. I actually joined BADGR and played with those guys that you saw every night in 3 man tier 9 plats. My WR is higher than all of theirs. Solo is without a doubt completely possible. Anyone saying otherwise is directed to the years of bad wot players saying exactly the same thing while unicums laughed at them.

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It was not the developers intention to have vehicles like the M109 get their reload down to like 3-4 seconds and they didn't want vehicles like the AMX10P 90 to shit out over 500 damage every 3-4 seconds with HEAT.  It was broken and detrimental to game play.  It was not even close to being balanced.  Who cares if the retrofits/crew skills/energy drinks did exactly what they said they were supposed to do, using that shit was still taking advantage of a simple oversight by the developers.  On the bright side, I wasn't even active until the last couple of days before the patch it was fixed.  On the negative side, it's fucking pitiful that the developers even made that mistake and it was even a thing.  Thankfully they are hiring more developers atm.  Should see a lot more fixes to stuff like that and also to other things such as the physics of wheeled vehicles in the near future.

 

Triple platooning the highest tiers and only using broken-meta MBT's....and sync dropping with other platoons...is faggotry at its finest.  Also, there were quite a few instances where they would do shit like platoon artillery and sync drop with the understanding they wouldn't counterbattery, also faggotry at its finest.  Yes, solo playing is possible, but it's annoying as fuck playing with and against sync dropped platoons.

 

 

Stupid shit like this is why people don't like BADGR, and then pretending they are actually competent to boot.  

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Was not referring to the arty nonsense. I actually only saw that in PVP maybe twice, and they got TK'd both times for doing it. Also, that garbage was way more of a party trick than anything even close to effective. They ran out of ammo incredibly fast and ended up actually doing less damage a lot of the time, from people I talked to that did it. I was more referring to things like tier 9 actually having a viable alternative to the MS for a little while in the reload stacked A2. Now that that's gone, tier 9 is once again play the MS or get fucked. Removing the commander bonuses instead of removing one of the loaders from arty was a retarded move and made high tier balance worse than it was before the "fix".

Platoons have always been the scapegoat in this game, since the first round of EA. Everyone thinks there's some conspiracy going on there, and there just isn't. Unless you're referring to some specific event you know of, then what you're talking about with synced platoon drops is blatant bullshit. BADGR was/is the one with the most platoons playing daily, and while I was with them, even when there were 4 full tier 9 plats running, none of them talked to each other. Blaming this also once again ignores the examples of players that solo to higher win rates than these platoons.

Seriously, read your arguments here and then imagine it's some yellow pubby saying it about wot. They are EXACTLY the same arguments.

 

Edit for your edit: That match is exactly what I saw most of the time solo. 63% It's more than possible. There's also a reason all the best players left BADGR. They lost those matches pretty frequently.

Is there some way to maybe get back to the actual thread topic?

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