Fixing balance issues in World of Tanks

[Gharirey 992]

WoT in its current state is a broken game. WG seems to have understood this but I for one have lost my trust in their capability of solving major balancing issues. Two issues in particular need fixing:

 

1. Class balance

•  Artillery:

On some maps, arty is unplayable because it can hardly hit anything (city maps like Kharkov or Himmelsdorf). On the other hand, it completely dominates on open maps like Prokorovkha or Malinovka – having too many artilleries on such maps makes them painful to play in all other classes.

In general, low tier artilleries are very ineffective since they have little splash and fight smaller, often more mobile vehicles. On the contrary, high tier artillery is still extremely powerful thanks to massive splash and bigger targets.

• TDs: Two years ago, WG started a massive overhaul of its map pool. Long-range firing lanes and powerful bushes were removed in favour of corridors, which forced players into close range brawls. This change hit TDs hard. Their favourite camping spots all but disappeared. Suddenly the two main drawbacks – lack of a turret and low hp pool – became massive weaknesses that their powerful guns couldn’t fully compensate any longer. Of course some TDs cope with these changes better than others: e.g.: heavily armoured assault TDs like the Tortoise or JP E-100 suffer a lot less than for example the French TD line; equally some TDs with high alpha guns are still fairly potent (ISU-152, SU-122-44) and so are the few turreted TDs.
• Lights: the changes that were supposed to break the dominance of TDs had a by-product that should have been easy to predict. It flabbergasts me that WG apparently did not. By marginalizing the vision game in favour of a brawling meta, scouting became almost irrelevant. At this point, there are exactly two maps left on which light tanks are vital to a team’s success (Prokorovkha and Malinovka); on some other maps scouts can play a positive role but it rarely becomes crucial. In other words, light tanks have been shafted so hard that they have become the class least able to carry games. They have become the eunuchs of WoT.
• Mediums and heavies on the other hand have grown into the gold standard of WoT. In particular, those tanks that occupy that combine the best of both classes (armor, mobility and a solid gun) rule the battlefield.

 

2. Tier Balance

 The balance between classes might be a mess but the balance between tiers is a disaster. I believe this is intended: even the worst monkey playing WoT is supposed to feel like an invincible god-tanker in every other game. To this end, he is fed lower tier opponents that are utterly outclassed by his vehicle. In my opinion, this is a terrible design choice. The feeling of being invincible for a game doesn’t make up for the frustration generated by not being able to hurt some opponents or getting oneshotted by a tank two tiers higher that can destroy your entire hp with a single shell. Some tiers/tier gaps are particularly cruel:

•  Tier III and IV: these two tiers are nothing but a field of sorrows. They are simply the worst place to be in WoT and many tanks at these tiers are utterly impotent to hurt tier V or VI opponents.
• Another brutal gap exists between tier VIII and IX. Many tier VIII tanks still have guns in the 240 alpha area that simply cannot compete with the 320-390 standard introduced at tier IX. It gets truly brutal when tier VIII vehicles get dropped into tier X matches: in the current brawling meta there is little room for long range support fire, thus these tanks have to challenge tanks that outclass them in every possible aspect at close range.

 

3. Solutions

 a) +1/-1 MM

• I believe the simplest, yet most effective way to improve balance in WoT is to change the tier spread: +1/-1 MM for normal tanks, +2/0 MM for most scouts (in some cases like the A-20 even +2/-1 MM).
• Don’t scream sacrilege yet! Just think about it: what is the downside? Two things come to mind: Firstly, waiting times in the MM cue would increase. But this blow could be softened if the MM returned to harsher +2/-2 MM if the server population is low or the cues get too long. Similar exceptions already apply for other MM rules as well.

Secondly, people would feel a bit less almighty when they are top tier; tanks a tier lower tend to be able to hurt you a lot more reliably than those who are two tiers lower. In my book, closing the tier spread is a good thing: matches would become more interesting. Sure, it’s fun to bully a tank that simply cannot retaliate but it is also indefinitely more frustrating to be on the receiving end (getting oneshotted by a tier X monster TD in your tier VIII is so much fun!)

On the other hand, this proposal would instantly solve a whole range of issues: tier III would be playable; there are only a few tier IV tanks that would remain problematic (Mathilda, B1). Tier IV would still be meh and oneshots would still occur but they would become a lot less frequent if tier IV tanks would no longer be served as cannon fodder to tier VI tanks. Tier VIII would become one of the most enjoyable tiers imho: sure tier IX tanks would still severely outclass many tier VIII (especially where meds are concerned) but the truly abysmal encounters with tier X tanks would no longer happen.

• Again, I don’t understand why the current MM spread is a holy cow for the developers. The only tangible gain from it are shorter waiting times. However, I am fairly sure these would not be increasing much on the more populated servers (RU, EU). Significantly, longer waiting times would only arrive during hours of low activity or on underpopulated servers like NA West. Again, this could be solved via exceptions allowing the matchmaker to return to a wider tier spread.

Another possible counter-measure would be to allow players and their accounts to migrate freely between servers (e.g.: a player doesn’t find a match on NA West at 11 o’clock local time, he could log into EU2 with his account and play there at peak hour). Of course, this would give rise to some secondary issues: particularly concerning boni and special missions offered by each server cluster. The easiest way to deal with this would be that the boni from your home cluster apply regardless of the server on which you currently play. I think it would also help to offer players a chance to transfer between clusters completely (with a cooldown of one year before such a transfer could be done again).

Of course, this wouldn’t help those people who don’t have an internet access fast enough to handle a more remote server. But that isn’t such a massive issue, either. WoT isn’t a particular fast-paced game (Just look at BarksInternally – he has proven that one can play at superunicum levels with >200ms ping).

• A troublesome issue would be how to adjust MM for those tanks that already enjoy preferential MM (like the FCM, IS-6 or the Type 59). WG is very reluctant to submit these tanks to nerfs and while the stats of these tanks would remain unchanged, this would definitively be a nerf by proxy: suddenly the CDC would have the same tier spread as the FCM. The IS-5 would outclass the IS-6, the T-54 proto would be a better Type 59, …

There are two possible solutions for this: The first would be to lower their MM to +0/-1. However this seems massively over the top! Tanks like the FCM or Type 59 are fully capable of dealing with most tier IX tanks.

I would much prefer individual buffs for those premiums that stand to lose their preferential MM: Perhaps a stronger engine or slightly improved gun-handling for the IS-6. The Type 59 could use a DPM buff, the KV-5 might get better pen, …

In other words, preferential MM would disappear! This should actually have a positive effect on MM cues since the MM would have to deal with fewer exceptions.

 

b) Light Tank rebalancing

• +2/0 MM would do the trick almost instantaneously. Obviously, lights would still struggle on some maps. On the other hand, some lights would dominate certain matchups. Sadly, this is unavoidable and can happen with virtually any tank in the game when map and match-making favour its strengths.
• But what if WG refuses to adjust the MM spread? Then the fighting and staying power of lights would need to be improved or alternatively, the maps would have to be completely overhauled yet again.
• Improved fighting power would signify massively improved gun handling on almost every single light. In order to make up for their weak alpha and lack of armour, lights would have to be able to snapshot as well as the very best tanks in the game (think gunhandling like the E-50M or T-62A!) Secondly, many lights would need a penetration buff. They still wouldn’t have the alpha but at least they should be able to pen every tank they see frontally. For example, the WZ-131 and WZ-132 would need 270-300mm pen on their HEAT rounds. The Bulldog would need a 250mm HEAT round, the MT-25 would need ~200mm APCR on its 57mm gun, … Similarly AP rounds would need a penetration buff of 10-30mm across the bord.
• Finally, lights would need their hp buffed in order to put them on equal footing with medium tanks of their own tier.
• Sadly, this solution comes with its own set of problems. In many forms of organized play lights would outclass mediums even more thoroughly than they do now (there is already no reason to pick a tier VIII med over a tier VIII light in skirmishes – imagine a hp, gun handling buff and penetration buff to light tanks and meds would become even more obsolete)!
• It is therefore painfully obvious that the best way to achieve balance for light tanks is to tighten the MM spread! In this case the easy solution (adjusted MM) is for once superior to complex tank-by-tank rebalancing.

 

c) TD rebalance

• Currently the TDs that suffer most are those without a turret; low alpha guns and weak armour are other factors that make a TD unsuited to the current meta.
• As the buffs to the Ferdinand and T95 show, WG already has already found a viable solution for this issue: increase the hp of the weakest TDs to something closer to a heavy tank. The double trade-off (no turret and much less hp) than becomes a much more even trade: you trade away a turret for a better gun (higher alpha and/or better pen). In other words, you pack a more potent punch but are more limited in the ways you can get that gun to bear.
• Hp rebalancing across the entire class: Some TDs get more hp some keep their current hp pool (Rheinmetal is doing fine for example).
• This would only leave a small number of completely broken TDs (WT E-100, the two British tier X TDs and possibly the tier X Foch) that are almost impossible to balance in the first place. I think the way to adjust the FVs is to reduce their maximum alpha in favour of better gun handling and reload (bringing them closer to the JP E-100). The WT already has a potential replacement and the Foch could be viable if it regained its armour and mobility but lost the autoloader; either for a high DPM gun with excellent gun handling – which would transform it into another Obj. 263 – or it could keep the 750 alpha gun but without an autoloader and would occupy its own niche as a more mobile but less armoured T110E3.

 

d) Artillery rebalance:

• Artillery is the toughest class to rebalance since it is at the same time overpowered and underpowered – mostly depending on the map and the tier.
• In my opinion, there are two steps that combined would remove many of the grievances against artillery in its current form:

1.      Hide player names and clantags during battle:

These should only ever become visible in the postgame results. This would instantly kill XVM stats and thus XVM focus. Currently the best 10% of the playerbase suffer from 50% of the artillery fire in high tier games (an estimate but I would be surprised if those numbers were far off). XVM focus is a very real thing – and it makes high tiers a living hell for the very best WoT players. Spread the artillery hits evenly across all players and suddenly the entire class becomes a lot less toxic.

2.      Flexible Hardcap for artilleries dependant on the map:

I don’t advocate a static hardcap but rather a cap that is different for every single map. For example, open maps like Prokorovkha and Malinovka should never have more than 2 artilleries per team (and even that is high). Similarly many city maps would need a low hardcap (arty is almost useless on a map like Kharkov why force players to play it more than absolutely necessary?). Maps that are semi-open (Pilsen, Mines, Karelia) would see a hardcap of 3 artilleries per match (which is very high but otherwise cues get too long).

Obviously, this comes with a severe disadvantage: suddenly there would be too many clickers in the cue and not enough battles for every one of them. Waiting times for artillery players would sharply increase. It sucks but I think it is better than the alternative.

• Many low tier artilleries on the other hand need a buff: better accuracy, more splash. Honestly, those things are simply painful to play. A select few on the other hand, need nerves: M44 needs its HEAT round nerfed hard (less alpha, less pen).
• The other main grievance with artillery is that it can hurt you with impunity. I think AW has a good system in that regard: in this WoT clone, you reveal your approximate location if you fire in an artillery. If the map quadrant from which an artillery fired was displayed on the minimap and tracers were made a lot more visible, counter-artillery would instantly become viable again. And if arty click each other, nobody complains (except the monkeys too lazy to move after they shot).

 

P.s.: I am repeating myself, but the Editing tools in this forum make me cry every time!

 

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

What I would do for light tanks, exception being the tier 8: Give them pref MM, but for a tank 1 tier higher. IE: Bulldog has the IS6 MM. Will always see tier 8s, will never see tier 10s. 

[Intumesce 1,695]

A +/-1 matchmaker would be a double edged sword. On one hand matches would be more even and there would be less totally useless tanks when bottom tier. You mention queue times but I honestly think it wouldn't make any significant difference. Going up to 15s queue time from 10 seconds will not bother anyone except people running botting programs. Even on the EU AW server you can find a match within a minute or so at any given tier, even though the server queue has less than 1/4th the population of WoT's EU server at any given time. So queue times are not a problem whatsoever. But instead a +/-1 MM brings in a few other problems:

1. Lack of variety.
This might be more of an AW problem and less of a WoT problem, but currently in AW you often see the same few tanks over and over. Part of this is due to how imbalanced certain tanks are and part of it is probably because AW doesn't even have 1/3rd as many tanks as WoT does, but it goes without saying that removing 1 tier from the spread would limit how many different tanks you can see. Obviously this is the point so tier 8 HTs don't stomp tier 6 tanks without mercy, but it also gives tier 7 tanks less stuff to shoot at and so on. Ultimately if you don't think lack of variety is a problem I suppose this isn't really a problem.

2. Certain tanks instantly become MUCH stronger.
Mainly some HTs or MTs would become a lot stronger from not seeing tanks 2 tiers above them which would stomp them. Ever noticed how some tanks have armor that's impenetrable to everything except tanks 2 tiers above which go through it like butter? I imagine the VK 45 (is it still in the game? I haven't played for a long ass time) would be the exception to this rule as it ironically would grow weaker from seeing less tier 7s. But in general anything with armor would now only have gold rounds from tanks 1 tier above/TDs to worry about. The game's been out for years with +/-2 MM in mind so a lot of stuff would need a serious rebalancing.

[predavolk 283]

Solution to rebalance arty:

An optional click box that says "Play games without arty".

As for lights and TDs, I've been thinking that bigger maps (1200M) might help the problem.  Keep the bases close to each other so that slow tanks can still reach the prime areas easily enough.  But this extra space naturally makes vision more important and opens up far more opportunities for flanking and long-range sniping.

[no_name_cro 2,034]

It's pretty easy fix IMO:

• Overhaul maps: Most maps are just shit. WG sucks at map designs.
• Polish out the gimmick tanks: It's pretty retarded to drive one or get face fucked by one. Brutal alpha, clip burst, bullshit armor etc. etc.
• Straighten out the HP disparity.
• Regular MM for LTs. Seriously.
• At least remove the RNGeesus from arty. I've been playing M44 lately, and pretty much RNG fucks you or enemy team. Lower alpha, more accuracy - I want to make sure my shots count.

 

[Intumesce 1,695]

5 minutes ago, predavolk said:

As for lights and TDs, I've been thinking that bigger maps (1200M) might help the problem.  Keep the bases close to each other so that slow tanks can still reach the prime areas easily enough.  But this extra space naturally makes vision more important and opens up far more opportunities for flanking and long-range sniping.

As AW has shown (thanks, Reactor) a big map does not mean a map good for camo-reliant vehicles.
Reactor is the biggest map but half of the map is unusable (you literally cannot drive over half the area on the map) and there's little to no bushes.
A small map which has options for tanks with camouflage is WAY better than what is basically a big city map.
Likewise a big map with options for camo-reliant tanks makes vision far too important.

[Kramburglar 591]

Maps need to have balance individually, rather than as a whole (not that they're balanced on the whole either, but whatever).  WG's reliance on claiming corridor maps are balanced by maps like prok is asinine, especially with how their map rotation works (or doesn't work in this case)

Each map should have areas where different roles are viable.

Also, and this was touched on in the video with Slava, HE could be reworked to do much less direct damage while increasing module damage.  This would then be balanced by repair kits repairing all modules and being placed on a cooldown rather than being consumed.  Prem kits would then have a shorter cooldown.  This makes HE a support round, as you're not killing anything directly with it (unless it's on very low health) but it can be a great way to slow an advance or catch an enemy tank out in the open for others to take out with penetration rounds.

Then, limit arty to 2 per side, so you don't have modules constantly blown out while your kit is on cooldown

[Archaic_One 1,852]

Well, its too late to do away with Tier 9-10 arty and just give arty scout matchmaking . . .  but capping arty on open maps would make the game a LOT more enjoyable.  Arty could be repaid by never having to play Karkov or Himmelsdorf again.

One of my clan mates came up with a cool idea the other night - random spawning bushes.  Add some bushes back to the game, but not in predictable locations.  I know, probably a coding nightmare, but still easier to code than rampage.

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

I think LT's with regular MM would be broken as hell. Imagine a Bulldog or a 131 vs a tier 5 tank.... Yeah. no. But, giving them pref MM of a tank 1 tier higher would be acceptable. Tier 8 LTs would need some gun-buffs for penetration (13-90 seriously... give it a damn VStab already) with their penetration being 200-220 for AP, 250-260 for premium. And yeah, bigger maps would help BIG time

[Zinn 1,333]

IMO, LTs should be re-labelled to mediums and shoved around the tech tree with various buffs and nerfs as alternate lines or replacing really shitty lower tier meds. They will never be useful as long as they're simply worse medium tanks anyway, so you might as well turn them into actual mediums that focus more on speed and gun handling but do less damage and have better camo or something.

Arty redesign and map reworks go hand in hand, so that issue is really difficult to crack. While World of Corridors was also partly to buff HTs and nerf mediums, the true reason for them is to block the most common arty lanes while simultaneously leading you right into a killing field at the end of them. Changing arty would then surely require a map change as well.

TDs are also stuck in no-man's land until serious map reworks have been done, they are just too inflexible as a class that tries to overcompensate for their shortcomings via retarded amounts of damage. I fucking swear that WG thought WoT was going to be a tower defense game with this arty and TD design.

Still, the overwhelmingly biggest issue with WoT is gold ammo. That shit just straight up HAS to go away before any talk of balancing the game can be done. It's not okay for arty to AP pen you, it's not okay for T-54s to get 330 pen to negate its only downside and it's generally stupid that heavy tanks are exp piñatas if they don't have a solid turret. Again, map reworks would do a lot to help this change since the corridor meta forces you to gold spam to a certain extent, even if you aren't trying for 5k WN8 and must pen on every hit. Gotta get through that Ehundo or JPE blocking my "lane" somehow, right?

[lt_lolcat 305]

Here's an easy way to balance that doesn't require much of a change - each tank gets it's own set of maps to play on.  Slow tanks never get big open maps.  Scout tanks and paper TD's only get them.  Arty never gets city maps. 

[MonoPanda 31]

The maps should punish arty more if they try to go for the "heavies corner" for example. It is way too easy for them to cover the whole map with just sitting in their cap. Bigger maps could make them move, when their range gets nerfed. The Obj 261 could be the one with the most range and fastest shell speed. Until now T10 Arties are not much different with regards to range, I just know about the GC but hey arties don't counter each other anyway. Differentiate them more is my idea here. There should be a hardcap for max 2 arties in generall and all arties should receive the ability to get pings from the ennemy arty when and where they fired. This would make them a crucial part of the team and support teamplay with them. If an arty kills another one they should receive massive Exp and Credits and less for normal tanks in general (I would love to see them hate each other :)). To make them more supportive let them deal less Dmg but deal more Dmg to the tracks. Inner modules should be less fragile to arty because each shot which pens the tank kills everything inside already. The rate of fire should enable a heavy tank to get back in cover but the tracking shell will be an opportunity for the rest of the team to catch the targeted tank.

In CW arty is really valuable against camping. Imo they need stun shells, in order to make a push into camping tanks less risky. All in all arty should switch from a heavy Dmg dealer to a support.

Light tanks need reworked maps with less tunnels obviously. Bushes in meaningful locations to spot movements and camping tanks.

The reason to play TDs is to block positions and heavy traffic tunnels on the map. Either you buff camo and bushes or buff armor to make them more durable to front fire. Sneaky TDs already suffer from bad armor. Another idea is to make lights spot camo TDs faster than other classes while they are in the open. Lights should be able to spot meaningful again. A T10 med can do the same job these days.

When I started WoT there was this rock-paper-scissors thinking, but the game lost it and mutated to a Pew- Pew game. My ideas evolve around bringing that back. Adding buffs and nerfs between TDs, Arty and Lights would do it. Heavies and Mediums are the Dmg dealing classes and either have heavy armor or less armor but mobility. Well Wn8 on arty and scouts would mean less this way but it would give this game more depth and more options for tactical thinking.

The point which kills my idea is server population. You can't balance when there is one light tank in queue but hundreds of TDs. We might have good ideas but the MM is the key to make them true.

Sorry for my english I am not a native speaker.

 

[Kramburglar 591]

2 minutes ago, Zinn said:

Still, the overwhelmingly biggest issue with WoT is gold ammo. That shit just straight up HAS to go away before any talk of balancing the game can be done. It's not okay for arty to AP pen you, it's not okay for T-54s to get 330 pen to negate its only downside and it's generally stupid that heavy tanks are exp piñatas if they don't have a solid turret. Again, map reworks would do a lot to help this change since the corridor meta forces you to gold spam to a certain extent, even if you aren't trying for 5k WN8 and must pen on every hit. Gotta get through that Ehundo or JPE blocking my "lane" somehow, right?

Easiest way would be to nerf damage on gold rounds.  That way people still have an OH SHIT button, but heavy armour tanks have their HP pools effectively buffed, as anyone relying on gold spam will be doing less damage.

[snowdude21325 62]

2 minutes ago, Kramburglar said:

Easiest way would be to nerf damage on gold rounds.  That way people still have an OH SHIT button, but heavy armour tanks have their HP pools effectively buffed, as anyone relying on gold spam will be doing less damage.

Would the price of the shell need to be changed then to match this change in damage?

[Kramburglar 591]

Just now, snowdude21325 said:

Would the price of the shell need to be changed then to match this change in damage?

Possibly.  Depends how much WG relies on the credit sink of gold rounds to drive prem time sales.

In an ideal world it would be a 100% tactical choice between damage and penetration and each shell would cost a similar amount, but I also realise that FTP games need sinks to push sales.

[orzel286 282]

#REMOVE_ARTY_FROM_THE_GAME

On some maps there are features that take up 1/4-1/3 of the space which if moved to the background would make the maps bigger (remember hidden village?). More camo, longer firing lanes, possibility to fire on another flank, less chokepoints.

Lower pen on gold rounds.

Lower mm spread for tier 3 and 4 tenks.

Stop introducing bullshit op/broken tanks ffs, waffle, 183, 4005, o-i exp, o-i - mid tiers weren't that BROKEN since kv split and kv1serb nerf.

Ban xvm.

Also: #REMOVE_ARTY_FROM_THE_GAME

[OOPMan 1,266]

As others have said, moving to +1/-1 MM would be a huge change and would break the game even more. Whole swathes of tanks would need re-balancing and many tanks would also no longer be matched against their historical foes.

[Crossfader 1,142]

i find it kinda funny when people say that light tanks only have to maps that they are "needed" on... sure, having a light tank on prok is nice, but i would rather have a medium instead. Any tier 9/10 medium tank is superior to any and all light tanks currently ingame

[Zinn 1,333]

26 minutes ago, Kramburglar said:

Easiest way would be to nerf damage on gold rounds.  That way people still have an OH SHIT button, but heavy armour tanks have their HP pools effectively buffed, as anyone relying on gold spam will be doing less damage.

While obviously a better solution than the current one, the central problem still remains: There is no point in slapping armor on a tank if you can just cut through that shit like it isn't even there and it's honestly the worst mechanic I've ever seen in a PvP game. It's Chinese Mobile Phone Game level pay2win, where you can neuter an entire class and game mechanic by throwing some gold or time (via cred grind) at the problem. Ironically, the gold spam problem becomes even more of a mechanic in favor of stronger players since they can cred farm to a much more efficient extent than the average Joe 49% and thus spam it more. In fact, the gold spam works so well that pretty much all top end players use it whenever there's a slight problem and I've noticed how much my stats improved once I fired just a couple of extra shells every few battles. Suddenly there were a few more wins and a few hundred extra damage by spamming some pubbie who actually had a real advantage over me. You'd notice how this means that I was effectively getting outplayed and then spanked the poor guy because his armor was now useless. That wouldn't change with a damage nerf unless you're facing a really good player who can AP pen very often.

If I wasn't so fucking cheap and hated the mechanic so much, I would just gold spam all day, every day because it's a skill enhancer after a certain point. Joe 49% sucks too much to make real use of it but a skilled player can turn a hell of a lot of "no" and "maybe" into "definitely" when it comes to penetration by hitting that 2 key. And thus the mechanic needs to die in a fire.

[1n_Soviet_Russia 1,299]

I think a huge issue is XVM, one could simply make the player stat api unacceptable till after the round. As for blocking names and Clan tags, clan tags are easy to focus, names not as much. Plus, blocking names would defeat the purpose of dynamic platoons. 

[TheMarine0341 4,972]

Block the names of the enemy, not your own team, until they're lit. Similar to FOW, but would remove the xvm fuckus

[Kramburglar 591]

14 minutes ago, Zinn said:

While obviously a better solution than the current one, the central problem still remains: There is no point in slapping armor on a tank if you can just cut through that shit like it isn't even there and it's honestly the worst mechanic I've ever seen in a PvP game. It's Chinese Mobile Phone Game level pay2win, where you can neuter an entire class and game mechanic by throwing some gold or time (via cred grind) at the problem. Ironically, the gold spam problem becomes even more of a mechanic in favor of stronger players since they can cred farm to a much more efficient extent than the average Joe 49% and thus spam it more. In fact, the gold spam works so well that pretty much all top end players use it whenever there's a slight problem and I've noticed how much my stats improved once I fired just a couple of extra shells every few battles. Suddenly there were a few more wins and a few hundred extra damage by spamming some pubbie who actually had a real advantage over me. You'd notice how this means that I was effectively getting outplayed and then spanked the poor guy because his armor was now useless. That wouldn't change with a damage nerf unless you're facing a really good player who can AP pen very often.

If I wasn't so fucking cheap and hated the mechanic so much, I would just gold spam all day, every day because it's a skill enhancer after a certain point. Joe 49% sucks too much to make real use of it but a skilled player can turn a hell of a lot of "maybe" into "definitely" when it comes to penetration by hitting that 2 key. And thus the mechanic needs to die in a fire.

Except there would be a point to having armour.  If low pen shells do more damage then having the armour to "force" people to use gold increases your effective health pool.  

A Maus taking hits from a T54 can, on average, survive 9 shots, dying on the 10th.  If gold rounds had a 25% damage reduction then the Maus could survive 12 shots, dying on the 13th.

Meanwhile, all low armour tanks would not get this benefit because people would just fire AP at them for regular damage

[1n_Soviet_Russia 1,299]

In regards to the profitability of gold shells, you can make money, but if you miss more than 1 your fucked. Alot of tryhard clans, TOTEM, ARAVT, R-7, S-A-R ect. fire full HEAT out of their meds and barely pull 2.5k damage. imho WG should incentivise firing regular ammo more, only t10 meds have a reason to fire non gold due to the shell velocity. As for gold rounds, heat is discouraged when facing spaced or sloped armor, but there is NO reason not to fire APCR premium ammo as it is in all ways better than the standard. 

[Kramburglar 591]

2 minutes ago, 1n_Soviet_Russia said:

In regards to the profitability of gold shells, you can make money, but if you miss more than 1 your fucked. Alot of tryhard clans, TOTEM, ARAVT, R-7, S-A-R ect. fire full HEAT out of their meds and barely pull 2.5k damage. imho WG should incentivise firing regular ammo more, only t10 meds have a reason to fire non gold due to the shell velocity. As for gold rounds, heat is discouraged when facing spaced or sloped armor, but there is NO reason not to fire APCR premium ammo as it is in all ways better than the standard. 

Ya, I would say a 25% reduction to HEAT damage and 30-35% for APCR, since HEAT already has some built in weaknesses

That's in general anyway, there are some prem rounds that are near useless for the increase in pen, so their reduction could be looked at on a case by case

[Zinn 1,333]

1 minute ago, Kramburglar said:

Except their would be a point to having armour.  If low pen shells do more damage then having the armour to "force" people to use gold increases your effective health pool.  

A Maus taking hits from a T54 can, on average, survive 9 shots, dying on the 10th.  If gold rounds had a 25% damage reduction then the Maus could survive 12 shots, dying on the 13th.

Meanwhile, all low armour tanks would not get this benefit because people would just fire AP at them for regular damage

The game just doesn't work that way, though. It's already an incredibly bad idea to engage a heavy tank frontally in a medium but you do it anyway because you have higher DPM, better gun handling and WG throwing cover on every other pixel of the map in order to make sure arty doesn't lol-splash you to death everywhere. All that happens between 9 and 13 shots for a good player vs a shit player is that it becomes more expensive for the good player, which is in turn solved via more Fort Knox packs and more SH cred grinding. The fact is that you can simply engage the heavy at any time on your terms because it has fuck all mobility, a slow as shit turret and usually pretty bad gun handling compared to you. Basically, it needs to sit and aim and you have a laser.

The Maus is also a terrible example because not only do people avoid it like the plague 'cause it's shit, the average heavy also "only" has 2100-2200 HP. Using an example with 50% more HP than the average is just bad math. The fact is that your medium only has to do 10-15% more damage than its own HP to take out the average heavy tank and firing a couple of extra shells is no problem when you realistically fire twice every time he fires once. You nail him after he fires and you nail him when he pokes out or if he's dumb enough to keep sitting there, then retreat until he looks away and nail him again. The heavy can in 99% of situations not dictate the flow of battle vs a good medium player without considerable backup because you can spam it to death or even track it and run away. Whether you hit for 240 per shot or 320 ultimately doesn't matter much, since it's 7 vs 9-10 shots against something that reloads several seconds slower than you, with only marginally more HP and worse mobility. And let's be honest here, if you're soloing a bunch of heavies frontally in your medium, you are the tomato to begin with. Using unrealistic scenarios is just plain bad when it comes to mechanics discussions, think about how you face a heavy tank in battle and tell me if it truly matters in almost every situation if you do slightly less damage.

Gold ammo is a fucking terrible mechanic that literally doesn't exist in any good PvP game ever created because it fucking destroys the very concept of balance. Try playing something that isn't WoT and then imagine if someone in that game could shoot through walls or bypass your defenses by throwing dollars or time at the developers. Because that is literally what gold ammo does and yet you really want it in the game? Just fix the map design and the need for gold shells evaporates because you can actually flank your target (meaning properly positioning yourself, not zooming past at 10m and hoping his slow ass turret can't follow).