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21Blackjack

First Impressions of War Thunder

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Been playing WoT for years and then tried AW, decided to give WT a whirl for the first time.  First impressions may be wrong, but after about 4 hours of playing:

 

  1. Graphics are lovely and added detail to tanks with bags and other things strapped to them really add charm.

  2. Tank movement feels much more realistic, the physics model is great and the tanks slide around and throw dirt, being much closer to reality that WoT or AW. Gear changes actually affect torque.

  3. Gameplay-wise I felt the Alpha-strike importance was 9/10ths of the battle. If you spotted them first, and shot first, you likely would win the exchange unless you stupidly attempted firing against a line of enemy tanks.

  4. I can see where WG steals a lot of tank and game ideas from such as the T25 and the Patton KR, which surprised me since I didn't realize these tanks had appeared earlier in WT.

  5. After doing a bit of research, Premium Time and Premium Tanks seem like a Red Herring in this game. If I wanted to spend money, the first thing I would do is simply pay for Ace Tank crews, since the cost benefit of a fully trained crew in this game is a magnitude higher than having a 3+ skill Tank Crew in WoT. And since spotting and Alpha strike ability is so strong, there is no point in me playing for years constantly dying to enemy Ace Crews til I can get my own Ace Crew.

  6. The random things that can happen in this game can make it enjoyable or incredibly frustrating, which I suppose is the charm for some people.

  7. Apparently if you try the American Line you get a Free Premium Tank the first time you play. But if you attempt to do the same thing with the British, it tells you that you cannot choose them as a Tank nation? A bug?

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3 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

Been playing WoT for years and then tried AW, decided to give WT a whirl for the first time.  First impressions may be wrong, but after about 4 hours of playing:

 

  1. Graphics are lovely and added detail to tanks with hoes and other hoes strapped to them hoes really add charm. In fact, turning the pretty graphics to minimum makes me more competitive!

  2. Tank movement feels much more like Tokyo drift, the physics model is truly Russian and the tanks slide around and throw dirt, being much closer to the psilocybin-infused trip I originally imagined. Gear changes actually affect torque.

  3. Gameplay-wise I felt the 420º CoD hardzscope importance was 9/10ths of the battle. If you spotted them first, and shot Russian HE, you likely would win the exchange unless the other tank is Russian.

I feel compelled to comment on the first three.

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Wow guys, giving a chap negs simply because he doesn't dismiss WT after playing it for only 4 hours?

Such mature!

Maybe I missed the fail train, but I'm pretty sure we use negs for marking shit posts, not for simply disagreeing?

5 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

what was the name of that Sherman tank with the 50 something rockets mounted on top? yeah fuck shit like that

Fair point. The Calliope is grotesquely OP and pay to win. On the plus side, it's so damn expensive (Literally 2/3 of a year of Premium time) you hardly ever see it :serb: 

6 hours ago, Strigonx said:

>Warthunder

>Movement being closer to reality

Nigga what drugs are you doing?

Compared to WoT's current movement model it's certainly closer to reality, there's no denying that.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it easy? No.

Has it improved over the last 12 months? Yes.

 

Out of interest, have you played in the last 12 months?

7 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

Been playing WoT for years and then tried AW, decided to give WT a whirl for the first time.  First impressions may be wrong, but after about 4 hours of playing:

 

  1. Gameplay-wise I felt the Alpha-strike importance was 9/10ths of the battle. If you spotted them first, and shot first, you likely would win the exchange unless you stupidly attempted firing against a line of enemy tanks.
    You are correct. Similar to real-life, the person who lands the first shot in a WT duel has a strong chance to win. Of course, it's no guarantee. The moral of the story is that you shouldn't try to tank shots as very few vehicles in the game can manage it consistently.

  2. I can see where WG steals a lot of tank and game ideas from such as the T25 and the Patton KR, which surprised me since I didn't realize these tanks had appeared earlier in WT.
    I'm not sure steals is the correct word here. Both companies make use of historical archives and advisors. The T25 was only added to WT in the last patch (1.55), although the M46 KR has been in for ages.

  3. After doing a bit of research, Premium Time and Premium Tanks seem like a Red Herring in this game. If I wanted to spend money, the first thing I would do is simply pay for Ace Tank crews, since the cost benefit of a fully trained crew in this game is a magnitude higher than having a 3+ skill Tank Crew in WoT. And since spotting and Alpha strike ability is so strong, there is no point in me playing for years constantly dying to enemy Ace Crews til I can get my own Ace Crew.

    Eeeeeh, kinda. Personally I have never spent much gold on tank crews because Premium Tanks and Premium Time do a similarly good job of training your crew. Premium Time in WT is actually much more useful than in WoT. Your RP gets a 100% bonus (Much nicer than the 50% bonus in WoT) while your SL earnings increase reasonably as well. Crew skills can be useful but you'll need to spend a hell of a lot of GEs to improve all your crews to the point where the are super good. 

    By comparison, playing a few good matches in a Premium Vehicle can earn you enough crew points to improve the ability of your crew significantly  and once you unlock the Qualified level for them you can use your SL to give the crew another significant buff. After that you can either spend GEs for the Ace level or play the shit out of the vehicle to unlock it for free or a reduced price.

     

  4. Apparently if you try the American Line you get a Free Premium Tank the first time you play. But if you attempt to do the same thing with the British, it tells you that you cannot choose them as a Tank nation? A bug?

    The British tanks are still currently "beta" iirc. This means in order to gain access to the Brit tree you need to buy one of the Brit premium vehicle packages or unlock access via play to earn Tester's Stars.

 

4 hours ago, Sabrechien said:

I feel compelled to comment on the first three.

With regards to your comments:

  1. They fixed the minimum detail level tricks last patch. I'm guessing you don't know this because you haven't played recently?
  2. You do know that tanks can, in fact, slide around IRL too? Regardless, once you improve your Driver's Driving skill and stop trying to over-steer like you're playing WoT the movement in WT is mostly fine...
  3. I think you maybe confused HE with APHEBC?
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Thanks for the actually reasonable reply.  Sounds like WT rubbed some people the wrong way?

By looking at things, it really seems like Ace tank crews are the way to go.  In WoT once you have your first crew skill, you are pretty much at 80-90% of that tanks max in game stats.

 

While looking at the WT model it seems like the difference between Qualified and Ace seems to look much bigger.  I don't see how you can play a game effectively unless you are at least within 80-90% of the other players in-game stats.  Otherwise you are simply fodder for them for the next year, even if you decide to pay Premium and get a Premium Tank.

 

Seems like you could get more money and more xp in-game buy putting premium tank and premium time money into a top crew so you have the maximum chance of doing the most in a match.

 

But I'd love to hear from more experienced players about what the criticisms of the game are.

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Out of curiosity what tank line are you going through? I can assume that you're going through the American line since you mentioned it.

The physics is hilariously slippy if you're used to WoT, but otherwise you get the hang of it after a couple of matches.

The Americans have been awesome for me so far, with overall good mobility and decent armor, but they get a gun shortage in about 5.0-5.7, and 6.7-7.7 (The 75/76mm and 90mm just doesn't cut after a while)

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3 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

While looking at the WT model it seems like the difference between Qualified and Ace seems to look much bigger.  I don't see how you can play a game effectively unless you are at least within 80-90% of the other players in-game stats.  Otherwise you are simply fodder for them for the next year, even if you decide to pay Premium and get a Premium Tank.

There's no doubt that having a maxed out crew helps a lot in WT, particularly with regards to the "drivability" of a vehicle. Even a marginally improved driver makes a huge difference while a maxed out one is very nice to have.

However, there are some things no amount of crew training will really help you with.

  1. Peek-a-booming: Only a few vehicles in WT are much good at peek-a-booming. This is primarily because most of the vehicles have truly terrible reverse speeds (The British are the absolute pits in this regard). As such, even with a maxed out Driver there is no way you will get much peek-a-booming done in any of the British tanks. Conversely, the vehicles that can reverse at high speed (Hellcat, IS-2, TigerP) do so fairly well even without a highly trained driver. 
  2. Picking the right spots to shoot on your target: For sure, having a gunner with maxed Rangefinding and Targeting is very useful for long-range combat but at close-range if you don't know where to shoot an enemy to maximise the odds of an ammo racking or crew insta-kill then no amount of GEs will help :-)
  3. Spatial awareness and tactical positioning: While dumping crew points into Keen Vision is useful, it won't really help you determine if you've been spotted or decide how best to flank an enemy. These are things that you have to do yourself.

I'm not going to pretend I'm awesome at WT. Far from it. But I can't say I feel hampered by the fact that I spent most of my GEs on interesting premium vehicles rather than maximising my crew skills. This may be because I only play AB. I imagine that in RB or SB the crew skills are of greater importance (Although that's not to say they aren't useful in AB). 

It's possibly more down to the fact that I'm not too bothered being bad@WT. There's definitely a less competitive vibe to the game, possibly due to it being much tougher to solo-carry. Or at least, that's my experience.

@TheMostComfortableTanker Any thoughts on this?

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@OOPMan Positioning and Luck™* will prevail over throwing money at the problem** (this is crew skills, don't get me started on the premium vehicles) in RB and SB.

*I remember getting my shiney new IS and getting Kursk vs KT and panthers (fair while ago I'll admit)... I hit 8 from 9 from 1.5km+ and every hit was a kill... 

**I have an ace crew on my talismaned Jagdpanther that does not perform exceptionally above what it did when I first got it and had a crappy crew.

 

 

 

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Thanks for the feedback.  The odd thing I saw was lots of things about e-sports for WT.  I know lots of people on the WoT official forums complain RNG makes WoT not suitable for e-sports.  But I can't imagine how WT works with the e-sports thing.

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The only problem for me in WT is the grinding. So much grinding. Imo, it's almost impossible to not play without premium if you're actually trying to get somewhere.

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17 minutes ago, 21Blackjack said:

Thanks for the feedback.  The odd thing I saw was lots of things about e-sports for WT.  I know lots of people on the WoT official forums complain RNG makes WoT not suitable for e-sports.  But I can't imagine how WT works with the e-sports thing.

Simple. E-Sports creates memorable moments. Just look at Hearthstone: All of the tournament high lights you usually see is linked to retarded RNG (like a 0.7% chance of a random drop ruining the game for you). Not that that's good, but it creates emotion, which in turn makes you more likely to remember it/watch it again.

If you were to ask me about the memorable e-sports moments I have seen it is 99% Hearthstone with stuff like E-Sportal, Piloted Shredders dropping just the card they needed to win (mostly shreddered doomsayers, shreddered Nerubar Weblords, portal into Alekstrasza...) and so on.

TL;DR: RNG creates emotion which increases desire to view the Esports. Bad for players tho.

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33 minutes ago, concep said:

The only problem for me in WT is the grinding. So much grinding. Imo, it's almost impossible to not play without premium if you're actually trying to get somewhere.

They actually improved on this a bit. The amount of RP earned was improved a while ago. Grinding with premium is actually rather pleasant right now and even without it's not too bad.

To give an example: The Caernarvon is a rank 4 BR 6.7 vehicle. This is about the equivalent of tier 8 in WoT. It costs 120k RP. With premium I usually earn about 4k to 6k RP per battle. Without premium about half that. So, with premium, it takes about 20 to 30 battles to unlock from the previous vehicle. Without premium you're looking at 40 to 60 battles. This isn't too bad really, although it does make premium time super worthwhile.

One aspect where people think WT is more grindy than WoT is the requirement that you purchase 6 vehicles within a given rank before you can start purchasing vehicles of the next rank. This isn't really that bad a thing though due to the way WT works. If you were able to simply grind up one "line" of vehicles then you would have a terrible line-up consisting of 1 rank 5 BR 7.7 or 8.0 vehicle with your other two spawns being whatever detritus you have available. In essence, you would be fail-platooning with yourself. The 6 vehicles purchased requirement is useful in that it ensures you should have a good range of vehicles in the same BR and rank with which to build a line-up. 

Playing WT for about a year (Excluding the time I took a break and wasted 6 months of Premium time in the process, durrrrrrr) I've unlocked and purchased:

  • US
    • AF: Nothing worth mentioning :-)
    • GF: 4 rank 4 vehicles. Working on my first rank 5 vehicle, the T92 light tank.
  • DE
    • AF: Some rank 2 with rank 3 being available
    • GF: First rank 5 vehicle is available, not researching it yet though.
  • USSR
    • AF: 3 rank 4 vehicles
    • GF: 2 rank 5 vehicles 
  • UK:
    • AF: 1 rank 3 vehicle
    • GF: 2 rank 4 vehicles, 3rd (Tortoise) in progess
  • JP:
    • AF: Fuck all :-)

For a years worth of work, that's not too bad actually. I have definitely not found this game to be nearly as grindy as people claimed. However, they did improve on that a few patches ago ;-)

 

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20 hours ago, Strigonx said:

>Warthunder

>Movement being closer to reality

Nigga what drugs are you doing?

Try playing WT before sounding like an idiot.  WT certainly isn't perfect, but it's still a whole lot closer to reality than WoT where your tracks have perfect friction and never slide.  Ground forces beta has been over for a while.

20 hours ago, gabse said:

*video*

This is still very much a thing in WT and fills me with rage.

9 hours ago, ZXrage said:

The physics is hilariously slippy if you're used to WoT, but otherwise you get the hang of it after a couple of matches.

The Americans have been awesome for me so far, with overall good mobility and decent armor, but they get a gun shortage in about 5.0-5.7, and 6.7-7.7 (The 75/76mm and 90mm just doesn't cut after a while)

Can confirm that anyone new to WT GF will be a bit shocked by how much tanks slide around compared to WoT or AW, but you certainly can master it.  Unless you're in a BT, then you're always going to be sliding.

I've actually grown to like how it works in WT, just since the mechanics are more deep that going from point A to point B.  Knowing how to drive sort of becomes another skill you can master, along with stuff like knowing how to angle or where to aim.

The 76mm is a nice gun, it's just overtiered, especially on the easy 8.  Easy 8 is a pain to play in AB, though I've not played RB as much since they've added the markers.  I hate the spawn system in RB as well, which is why I'm pretty much only doing AB at this point.  The 90mm is awesome when you first get it on stuff like the M36, but it'll start to show its age I'd imagine.  The long 90mm on the M26E1 and T32 is pretty amazing however.

 

I'm around rank 2 for planes on most nations, but for tanks:

US: All tanks rank 4 unlocked except M46, T92 unlocked.

USSR: Rank 4 is all unlocked except for a couple TDs, currently researching IS-3

Germany: Stopped at Tiger E and Panther A.  Panther makes me cry.

BritBongers: Whatever is at BR 4.0 is what my current lineup is. I know I have the Cromwell I and Churchill III.

 

I'd say the Soviet stuff is the easiest to play.  Once you unlock the T-34s, you really start smashing face and never stop.  The other nations have good tanks too, they just don't have as much variety in their lineups and have more bad apples usually.

8 hours ago, OOPMan said:
Spoiler

 

There's no doubt that having a maxed out crew helps a lot in WT, particularly with regards to the "drivability" of a vehicle. Even a marginally improved driver makes a huge difference while a maxed out one is very nice to have.

However, there are some things no amount of crew training will really help you with.

  1. Peek-a-booming: Only a few vehicles in WT are much good at peek-a-booming. This is primarily because most of the vehicles have truly terrible reverse speeds (The British are the absolute pits in this regard). As such, even with a maxed out Driver there is no way you will get much peek-a-booming done in any of the British tanks. Conversely, the vehicles that can reverse at high speed (Hellcat, IS-2, TigerP) do so fairly well even without a highly trained driver. 
  2. Picking the right spots to shoot on your target: For sure, having a gunner with maxed Rangefinding and Targeting is very useful for long-range combat but at close-range if you don't know where to shoot an enemy to maximise the odds of an ammo racking or crew insta-kill then no amount of GEs will help :-)
  3. Spatial awareness and tactical positioning: While dumping crew points into Keen Vision is useful, it won't really help you determine if you've been spotted or decide how best to flank an enemy. These are things that you have to do yourself.

I'm not going to pretend I'm awesome at WT. Far from it. But I can't say I feel hampered by the fact that I spent most of my GEs on interesting premium vehicles rather than maximising my crew skills. This may be because I only play AB. I imagine that in RB or SB the crew skills are of greater importance (Although that's not to say they aren't useful in AB). 

It's possibly more down to the fact that I'm not too bothered being bad@WT. There's definitely a less competitive vibe to the game, possibly due to it being much tougher to solo-carry. Or at least, that's my experience.

 

@TheMostComfortableTanker Any thoughts on this?

WT certainly doesn't feel as competitive as WoT.  I don't even try to win most times, I just try to do my best.  Maps are so big that sometimes flexing is never going to be a viable option, plus just how the game works makes carrying harder.  You just have to try to win your flank and settle with that.  I feel a lot of it is with how much harder it is to judge WT stats too, plus there's nothing like XVM either.

Some crew skills probably won't mean anything in RB like Keen Vision, but I'm sure a lot of others will really help.  I really don't have much to add on crew skills, so I'll just pretty much repeat what's already been said.  While crew skills in WT increase your performance a lot more than WoT, in most cases, skill, luck, and/or knowledge is going to be what really decides who wins a duel.  I'd spend time learning where to shoot what tanks, when to load what shell type, etc.  

Learning how dead crew members are replaced is also nice, since killing a tank with crew kills seems to be the most reliable way to do it. A driver and gunner will always be the last men standing.  Radio operators and the commander will leave their spot and fill in for more important dead crew if needed.  

For low tier tanks, the gun accuracy modules are seriously needed.  I couldn't hit shit past a couple hundred meters without them, but once you start getting to 57mm and 75mm guns, you won't really need to worry about unlocking them much at all.  Gun elevation speed module is still really nice to have though, especially in RB.

Fun Fact: The less ammo in your tank, the fewer ammo stowage spots that can be hit.  I'd still make sure to load enough that low ammo won't be an issue, but there are some tanks that you just won't ever be able to run out of ammo for even without a full load.

 

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2 hours ago, TheMostComfortableTanker said:

Can confirm that anyone new to WT GF will be a bit shocked by how much tanks slide around compared to WoT or AW, but you certainly can master it.  Unless you're in a BT, then you're always going to be sliding.

M3 and M5 Stuarts are like ice skaters, it's sometimes hard to drive straight, but it also let's you do some sick turns and weave around on urban maps.

Russian 85mm guns spoiled me, the huge APHE bursting charge makes it extremely lethal against everything. The 75mm L70 and even the 88mm feel like peashoters by comparission. Damage on the 75mm L70 APHE feels weaker than the 75mm L48 and more like the 50mm APHE, really turned me off from the Panther.

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2 hours ago, Shackram said:

M3 and M5 Stuarts are like ice skaters, it's sometimes hard to drive straight, but it also let's you do some sick turns and weave around on urban maps.

Russian 85mm guns spoiled me, the huge APHE bursting charge makes it extremely lethal against everything. The 75mm L70 and even the 88mm feel like peashoters by comparission. Damage on the 75mm L70 APHE feels weaker than the 75mm L48 and more like the 50mm APHE, really turned me off from the Panther.

Forgot about the Stuarts, but yeah, they like to do that too.  I've never had many issues with the after armor effects of the 8.8cm L/56, but the 75mm L/70 on the Panther feels so wimpy.  Pen might be good, but it doesn't hurt things too much when you hit them.

 

You then have the T-34 bouncing shots it never should IRL, because Gaijin thought adding a random bounce chance would add to the realism.  Said bounce chance really kicks up at 60°.  The 75mm on the Sherman IRL was perfectly capable of going through the front hull of a T-34 IRL, but in WT it's much more risky.  You've also got a bunch of issues like WG giving the Tiger II bad armor modifiers so it's actually weaker than the model would suggest, despite allied reports not finding any issues with it that I can recall beyond bad spalling.  We've then got early T-34s with their overhardened armor not feeling any downsides of that, and a whole load of other shenanigans like fire chance for different shells and such.

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When it comes to ammo, I tend to always load 50% of my total capacity at most. In some vehicles I never load more than 33% capacity. Less chance of being racked is never a bad thing :-)

On the topic of "grind" again. Early last night I unlocked the Avenger, opening the path to the Tortoise. The Tortoise (like the Caernarvon) costs 120k RP. Playing a couple of matches last night and again this morning I've already earned nearly 40k of those 120k RP so, really, the grindiness of this game is very much not a big deal imho.

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The grind in this game isn't that bad like what other people said, since if you have a couple of bad streaks in high(ish) tier tanks and lose 20K SL, you can always drop back a BR or two to club and still earn the RP and SL needed for whatever tank you're researching (you might need a talisman, tho)

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17 hours ago, TheMostComfortableTanker said:

You then have the T-34 bouncing shots it never should IRL, because Gaijin thought adding a random bounce chance would add to the realism.  Said bounce chance really kicks up at 60°.  The 75mm on the Sherman IRL was perfectly capable of going through the front hull of a T-34 IRL, but in WT it's much more risky.  You've also got a bunch of issues like WG giving the Tiger II bad armor modifiers so it's actually weaker than the model would suggest, despite allied reports not finding any issues with it that I can recall beyond bad spalling.  We've then got early T-34s with their overhardened armor not feeling any downsides of that, and a whole load of other shenanigans like fire chance for different shells and such.

Don't forget the Tiger I headlights on the hull corners, that prevented you from fully depressing your gun when you're angled so you can't make me the most of your armor. Then removed and replaced by s-mine dischargers that do the same thing.

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2 hours ago, Strigonx said:

I got access to a borrowed account with a lot of tanks, but after a few matches here's my stand on WT:

SU-152

152mm HE is very "pleasant" in WT :serb:

 

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Ill put War Thunder this way:

it is either the most amazing game in the entire world, or the most rage inducing, frustrating game in the world. I've never really had a middle ground with it

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