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Assassin7

WN8, WN9, and Stat Padding

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This is something I have been seriously thinking about for a while now, and its mainly to do with the whole "stat padding" mindset that has started dominating over the last year or two. 

We all know about it, and we all know its wildly considered pretty cheap and is downtrodden. But, personally, I think its effecting the way we play, and our tank choices, its going way to far. I mean, hell, even Rexxie a few months ago said it himself that he hates playing "good" tanks because hes subconsciously afraid of "Stat padding" by playing good tanks, but, frankly, I don't see much that ISN'T stat padding nowadays:

if you play below tier 8, you are stat padding

if you play a tier 9 medium (namely the E-50, T-54, and M46) you are stat padding

if you play a tier 10 RU medium, you are stat padding

if you play a Light Tank, you are Stat padding.

tanks like the E5 and IS-7 can be considered stat padding tanks, basically mobile heavies. 

 heck, people have informed me while playing a lot of the other tier 10 meds that they are considered stat padding tanks - even the STB-1 (which is retarded beceause its expected is so much higher than everything else)

if you play one tank for a large number of games, you can be considered using it to stat pad, even if its a PoS tank, because omg low expected = good stats

This basically leaves us with playing slow heavies or TDs at tier 9-10. 

 

frankly, this trend started happening, at least with WN8 and IMO, with Garbad - when he started raving on about the low expected on the T-62A and how people were stat padding in it because of this. people were like "omg this has low expected its a stat padding tank" and people have just started getting more and more into the whole "this is stat padding" thing. heck, WN9 is adding a "platoon penalty" to do what? give lower values for people "stat padding" by playing in platoons constantly. I mean, COME ON. its going too far. people are forgetting about having fun, and are too worried about how their 500 games in the T-54 will be considered "stat padding" by everyone else - but thats the whole thing, most of the tier 9 meds can be considered "stat padding" tanks anyway, save for probably the Lorraine and Type 61, so what tanks aren't "stat padding" if all of the others are? its the same for light tanks, pretty much all of them really, play them a lot, "stat padder" the ELC is probably the biggest "stat padding" tank though. 

 

the sad part is, the vast number of these "stat padding" tanks are the best tanks at their tiers and roles, and are generally very fun tanks. why would I play something less likely to get me results simply because I won't be "stat padding" in it. why would I play a Type 61 instead of an M46 simply because the M46 is a more stat paddy tank? 

 

Personally, my opinion is this: the expected WN8 values for a tank are based on the average server performance of everyone playing that tank. if the average performance of the T-62A is lower than the average performance of the Object 140, then why should it be considered stat padding? they are all run through the same calculations, you do that much better or worse than the average player in that tank. thats not really padding in it, if the average player base is only doing that much. 

 

the point I am trying to make is, well, who really cares? so what if you play the T-54 a lot?  its a good, fun tank. who cares if your favourite tank in the game is the T67? as long as you don't claim to be good at tier 10 when you clearly don't play above tier 5 I see no issue. thats not padding, thats just having fun in the tanks you enjoy. 

who cares if you platoon a lot? platoons give you natural penalties in stats anyway, especially when playing with other good players, just because there is naturally less damage to go around because of said platoon mates. Frankly, the platoon thing Irks me extremely badly, since as most people know I only ever platoon nowadays. thats fun to me, and I don't see why I should be punished in terms of stats for playing the game how I enjoy it, just because some people think that im padding my stats by platooning. padding what though? win rate, last time I checked WN8 really didn't take much weight on Win rate anyway, so why does it matter? and as I said before, what I might gain from win rate I would lose on the drop in DPG anyway, so it evens out. 

 

TL;DR, the anti stat padding mindset has gone too far, and I think its way over the top and it needs to be thought about. we are trying to hard to make an "unpaddable" metric and everyone is forgetting that its a game and its supposed to be fun, and by punishing all the fun parts of the game via stat reduction its destroying the whole concept.

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Just now, bjshnog said:

I hope that WN9 is the straw the breaks the camel's back, and the entire WoT community implodes upon its release.

I just think everyone needs to take a massive chill pill when it comes to the whole stat padding debate. being punished or considered not as good because you like playing a tank that, on average, the general population doesn't play as well as they play in others, is really stupid. 

same with platooning, okay, I REALLY despise the "platoon padding" penalty that WN9 is supposed to be introducing

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One could always just only play arty to avoid stats padding :serb:

 

I think you should always look at what is best for 95% of the server population. That things go wrong in the top 1% and people stat pad there, so be it. We know enough about the game to analyse how good or bad someone is based on their tank specific stats.

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Just now, Private_Miros said:

One could always just only play arty to avoid stats padding :serb:

 

I think you should always look at what is best for 95% of the server population. That things go wrong in the top 1% and people stat pad there, so be it. We know enough about the game to analyse how good or bad someone is based on their tank specific stats.

Exactly, thats why I dont see the point in trying to destroy the fun of the game in an attenpt to stop padding when you can look at a guys service record, see that he has 1300 games in a KV1 and only has 1500 DPG in his tier 10s, and be done with it. And frankly, while the pretty purple colour may look nice, its more of a hinderence nowadays because XVM sniping and focus, and everyone just calls purples stat padding gold spamming hacking rerolls nowadays and it doesn't actually get very much respect any more...

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Your free to play what you want, but repeating false claims does't make them right.

 

- It has been proven that platoons boost your stats, as long as you arn't totally retarded and play with equally handicaped bots or if your on the level as X3N4 and toon up with equally good players. Everything inbetween profits from platooning - even arti, if your not a dumb shitlord and form 3x SPG plats.

- implying that balancing highlights like E5, ELC or T67 and exploiting them shouldn't be considered padding when it comes to a metric like WN8 ... . Just say you want WN7 back and be done with it, fucking shitlord.

 

I recently jumped on X3N4s stream for the first time and left disgusted within 5min. There is no doubt that he 's a really good player, probably one of the best. But Patton full gold load and what not ... no thanks not my cup of tea and a big shoutout to WG for making such game breaking nonsense possible for years now.

 

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Honestly the only thing about "stat padding" that I don't like is it more or less makes it impossible to get into a decent clan if you have spent your last thousand games playing anything OTHER the tanks that you listed.

 

Oh, your recent isn't 9000+?, sorry baibai!

 

Even fucking shit clans like Relic - which I was a part of before I left the country for a while (obviously before they imploded)... Also the fact that the scales are inherently fucked from WG releasing OP FOTM tanks and then nerfing them into oblivion months later, and still completely fucked for clickers (not sure that will ever get unfucked).

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Also

1 minute ago, Folterknecht said:

Your free to play what you want, but repeating false claims does't make them right.

 

- It has been proven that platoons boost your stats, as long as you arn't totally retarded and play with equally handicaped bots or if your on the level as X3N4 and toon up with equally good players. Everything inbetween profits from platooning - even arti, if your not a dumb shitlord and form 3x SPG plats.

- implying that balancing highlights like E5, ELC or T67 and exploiting them shouldn't be considered padding when it comes to a metric like WN8 ... . Just say you want WN7 back and be done with it, fucking shitlord.

I for one, have never seen anything about platoons boosting your stats. I know it boosts your win rate, but your WN8? No. 

The DPG in all of my tier 10s, where I platoon often, are rather kow conpared to someone else playing at my level - especially compared to the win rates in the tanks, along with the fact I have barely any 3 marked tanks at relevant tiers, and some not even 2 marked. Platoons are taking this damage, they aren't boostingcme any higher. I've topped out around 3.1K and havent been any higher since I got there several months ago. If I solod much more, I could hit 3.5K fairly quickly most likely, but with platooning, I most likely won't. i would have to be playing at least as a 4K solo player to get there with platoons, especially as I play with players even better than me quite often.

 

As for the E5, I quite frankly dont consider it even close to a "stat padding" tank. The ELC requires an extrenely unique playstyle, and the T67 is terrible in the hands of shitters but extremely powerful in the hands of someone who knows what theybare doing. But if you can do above what the average player does in these tanks, why exactly is it padding? Tbh I Find it hard to see the logic in playing a tank better than other players can play the same tank to be considered stat padding. While I would half give you the T67 (though it has retardely high expected for a tier 5) the ELC? Not really, the E5? No way.

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I dont personally give a fuck about anybodies wn8 or wn9. If I want to know roughly how good or bad you are, Ill inspect you and look for your avg dpg (and the other stats like spottting or kills per game if I want the details) in tier x tanks. And why would anyone care if a pubbie calls you a reroll or a stat padder, they are just jealous shitters anyway.

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53 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

who cares if you platoon a lot? platoons give you natural penalties in stats anyway, especially when playing with other good players, just because there is naturally less damage to go around because of said platoon mates. Frankly, the platoon thing Irks me extremely badly, since as most people know I only ever platoon nowadays. thats fun to me, and I don't see why I should be punished in terms of stats for playing the game how I enjoy it, just because some people think that im padding my stats by platooning. padding what though? win rate, last time I checked WN8 really didn't take much weight on Win rate anyway, so why does it matter? and as I said before, what I might gain from win rate I would lose on the drop in DPG anyway, so it evens out. 

^^^ That's exactly right. Platoons decrease the amount of dmg to go around, the price you pay for an increased winrate.

What really, really irks me are the people who criticise people like me - i.e. those who play 99% solo - by pointing to my winrate, when they themselves platoon 24/7 so they naturally have better winrates. Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of doing this, far from it - you admit that as a side effect of platooning. But the anti-statistas, inspired by Garbad, love to throw around winrate as a stat that can't be 'padded', when in fact it is much easier to 'pad' winrate than it is to pad damage or WN8.

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The problem is two fold in my eyes. People wanting nicer colours and wanting to get into higher clans.

With regards to the higher colours I can usually spot them a mile away. Usually between 1600-2000 WN8 but with 51-53% WR. It annoys me that they think that just having a high WN8 will get you in, and in most cases it actually fucking does. As a consequence, their high tier game is fucking appalling, with crap DPG and a hindrance. I know I can't say much, being just a teal myself, but I'm fucking more proud of my WR than WN8.

Lastly, some of the expected WN8 values to get into clans are astronomically high. I know you want to have good players, but what's the point if excluding so many people who would be beneficial or good for the clan, just because "collars don't match the cuffs" so to speak? I know plenty of plateaued greens who I'd rather back me up than some others.

TL;DR - people wanting nice colours and getting into top clans can somewhat contribute to the padding culture.

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Exact reason I had to stop playing for few days, got carried away by those shiny stars on gun. But I know that this state won't last for long... Who doesn't like shiny stars?!

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29 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Also

I for one, have never seen anything about platoons boosting your stats. I know it boosts your win rate, but your WN8? No. 

The DPG in all of my tier 10s, where I platoon often, are rather kow conpared to someone else playing at my level - especially compared to the win rates in the tanks, along with the fact I have barely any 3 marked tanks at relevant tiers, and some not even 2 marked. Platoons are taking this damage, they aren't boostingcme any higher. I've topped out around 3.1K and havent been any higher since I got there several months ago. If I solod much more, I could hit 3.5K fairly quickly most likely, but with platooning, I most likely won't. i would have to be playing at least as a 4K solo player to get there with platoons, especially as I play with players even better than me quite often.

 

 

And because you re too fucking lazy to search the relevant forum section it can't be true right?! Go to the official forums, I m sure you also find many fools there, that are interested enough in your exploits with your mom and brother.

 

Phalynx even went so far to create a digestible exel sheet from thousands of replays to demonstrate for deniers like you how platoons increase the DpB and WR for the vast majority of player (as laid out above). Even common sense will tell you how that works.

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It might look like padding but the one that plays that tank might:

- really enjoys playing the tank.

- set himself some goals (3 marks, rise his dpb to value x, rise his wr  and so on)

so why would he care what others think as long as he is having fun or, like some do, he has his own goals regarding that tank

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All in all, I reached 4k recent two days ago again, but in all honesty it's not that big of a fuss to me because I know the tanks I'm playing have poor stock grinds, giving me the edge, along with 300 straight games in the T9 Skoda for the three marks, and another 300 for the 140, add that with some AMX 30 and WZ lights (that I actually just grinded straight through, stopping at 3MoE on both) and suddenly I have 1k games with tanks that all have pretty bad values but high potential. 

Yesterday was the first day I platooned in ages, at least for a longer session (40+ games) and recent WR skyrocketed from 60 to 62, and well on its way up because I realised how OP platmates are for MoEs :frenchy: 

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Some people prefer to show their stats to people who care

Others prefer to play the game to have fun with friends.

Some people like both, others just want to ruin other players' days.

People play this game for different reasons. Now please lay off the personal insults

Edited by jackquerudo
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15 minutes ago, Folterknecht said:

 

And because you re too fucking lazy to search the relevant forum section it can't be true right?! Go to the official forums, I m sure you also find many fools there, that are interested enough in your exploits with your mom and brother.

 

Phalynx even went so far to create a digestible exel sheet from thousands of replays to demonstrate for deniers like you how platoons increase the DpB and WR for the vast majority of player (as laid out above). Even common sense will tell you how that works.

Apologies - big time too lazy poster - but was there a tipping point in wn8 at which platooning actually stopped boosting it?

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Mfw people are almost 6 years into WoT and still haven't figured out that a 15v15 teambased PvP game with total randomization, no respawns, extreme RNG and hilarious imbalances doesn't make for good stat tracking :doge:

Hint: It makes for a pretty unstable game experience, whereas truly competitive games aim to give you the same experience every single time with the main difference in results being your and your opponents' skill level. Almost like some sort of evolution taking place :fish:

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28 minutes ago, Jug0sLovEn said:

And why would anyone care if a pubbie calls you a reroll or a stat padder, they are just jealous shitters anyway.

Sorry for the OT, but be sure to tell this to your clanmate 0gata aswell, since he had serious 30min rage tantrum towards me, after I killed his T34-3 with M46 APCR :P

 

Anyways on the topic: I dont care about WN8 either, any good player can break 4k recent with the said tier9 tanks, so instead I care about DPGs on tier10s. I really dont see the point playing easily (WN8) paddable tanks, just so you can apply to an elite clan.

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Play tanks you enjoy playing. Like platooning? Then keep platooning. Want to boost dpg? Play solo.

People enjoy different things. Focus on the things you enjoy.

Play tanks you enjoy playing. Like platooning? Then keep platooning. Want to boost dpg? Play solo.

People enjoy different things. Focus on the things you enjoy.

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