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Assassin7

WN8, WN9, and Stat Padding

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The problem is that the metric has warped what people consider fun. It has informed their gameplay and thus tainted it, which in turn undermines the validity of the metric. When I see a full gold M46 be like "I just like this tank" I can't help but think, at the very best, they are lying to themselves. It's sad. 

Want to end the anti-stat padding? Help the community stop being fixated on an arbitrary number. Unfortunately this community revolves around that number. It's in our comment sidebars, in our signatures, in our clan reqs, and in our XVMs. It isn't going anywhere and thus people will continue to accuse others of stat-padding.

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2 hours ago, RichardNixon said:

That's pretty funny. I thought the solution to tank-selection padding problems was to make a metric that didn't have tank-selection padding. According to the OP and his 21 positive voters, the solution is to pretend that tank-selection padding doesn't exist.

I have no problem with people playing for fun. The point of removing tank-selection padding is to allow people to play whatever tanks they like without it harming their e-peen or forum cred or whatever else it is that they care about.

There is no explicit platoon penalty in WN9, and according to my data, platooning only harms your damage output in extreme cases. Three (recent) super-unicums platooning at tier 10 has no detectable difference from their solo play, for example, even though you'd expect them to be taking it easy. An amusing result is that heavy platooning doesn't even change your top gun to frags ratio.

I may be understanding you wrong, but wasn't WN8 supposed to remove tank selection padding? Give every tank its own values to beat, can't pad that because thats how well everyone else does in the tank. If its a better tank it has higher values, etc.

This then goes into the question: why does the T-62A still have the lowest values, if its such a problem and everyone knows its a "padding tank"  why dont you increase the expected values? 

 

Honestly the biggest problem I have is the mindset of "if you play this tank you're padding"  I get it regularily when I play the T-54, Luna gets constantly bashed for the E-50 - which, funnily enough, is actually right smack bang in the middle for expected values of tier 9 meds, its not that low. 

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Who really cares? If you're a good player it will be apparent to anyone looking at your record/replays even if WN didn't exist.

Play the game you want, not the ones the WN cucks want you to.

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7 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

I think there are even some people who developed the right kind of platooning to an art form you might say - right tanks, tiers and tactics depending on platoon size, time of the day and what not.

 

Well then the question is, how do you differentiate the players who do this, from the players who just do it for fun? I dont care what my platoon mates play, I will do retarded platoon comps for lulz, should I be lumped in with the people who attempt to tactically form their platoon to get the best results?

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@Shade421 I prefer it actually when people play different classes. Sure, 3 MT's means a fast paced game, but nothing beats a well composed platoon. Gimme a 113/E5/E100 with a few MTs, etc. any time. 

I play WOT to have fun. Sometimes, dammit, the most fun you have have with pants on (allegedly) is a triple MAUS platoon for 3 hours

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5 hours ago, lt_lolcat said:

Why would anyone agree to play like this?

I've no idea actually. But that guy does have near 5k recent WN8 and is really good, maybe they were hoping to learn something from him.

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2 hours ago, An_Arty_Player_Hits_You said:

I have a love hate relationship with my e4.... at least it isn't a hate hate relationship like i have with my 57ht and e-75 :feelsbad:

 

 

Do you load 21 apcr rounds?

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12 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

@Shade421 I prefer it actually when people play different classes. Sure, 3 MT's means a fast paced game, but nothing beats a well composed platoon. Gimme a 113/E5/E100 with a few MTs, etc. any time. 

I play WOT to have fun. Sometimes, dammit, the most fun you have have with pants on (allegedly) is a triple MAUS platoon for 3 hours

5

Last time I try to do 3*183 platoons we end up in a game that had like 20 Tier X TDs in it.

 

Didn't end up too well but definitely a lot of lulz

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18 minutes ago, TheMarine0341 said:

@Shade421 I prefer it actually when people play different classes. Sure, 3 MT's means a fast paced game, but nothing beats a well composed platoon. Gimme a 113/E5/E100 with a few MTs, etc. any time. 

I play WOT to have fun. Sometimes, dammit, the most fun you have have with pants on (allegedly) is a triple MAUS platoon for 3 hours

Confirmed

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1 hour ago, shutupshake said:

The problem is that the metric has warped what people consider fun. It has informed their gameplay and thus tainted it, which in turn undermines the validity of the metric. When I see a full gold M46 be like "I just like this tank" I can't help but think, at the very best, they are lying to themselves. It's sad. 

I suspect another aspect is the positive feedback such tanks provide players that then feeds their enjoyment. Ie have a reasonable game in one of those, get excellent wn8, \o/, love this tank. It's likely fueled by the garage stats mods that give out those gold stars. So in a sense i can see why people enjoy those more from a pure achievement aspect.

Side note, but i wonder whether all the derivative metrics would have developed differently had WG provided a solid solo win rate by tank from the year dot.

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16 minutes ago, Ezz said:

I suspect another aspect is the positive feedback such tanks provide players that then feeds their enjoyment. Ie have a reasonable game in one of those, get excellent wn8, \o/, love this tank. It's likely fueled by the garage stats mods that give out those gold stars. So in a sense i can see why people enjoy those more from a pure achievement aspect.

Thats probably true for a number of people, though its not true for me. Sure I love the High WN8 number, however its more I find the tank itself fun - example: the STB. It gives terribad WN8, but Its probably my favourite tank right now. 

Frankly its because my playstyle is fast medium tanks, i hate slow tanks, but the problem is that at tier 9-10, most of the "padding tanks" are the fast, mobile tanks, so I get called a padder quite often, infact probably the ony thing thats stopping people from calling me a padder IS the fact I have 1K games in the STB

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4 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Frankly its because my playstyle is fast medium tanks, i hate slow tanks, but the problem is that at tier 9-10, most of the "padding tanks" are the fast, mobile tanks, so I get called a padder quite often, infact probably the ony thing thats stopping people from calling me a padder IS the fact I have 1K games in the STB

Are you the Hellcat dude too?

edit: yeah :P

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Stat padding is pretty much a myth for 99.9% of players.  Anybody with less than drk purp recents that is alleged/claims to be padding is probably not good enough in the tank to even understand what it means.  Playing decent tanks and winning a lot is not stat padding, its called 'being gud'.

Play what you want to play, fuck the haters.

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5 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Are you the Hellcat dude too?

edit: yeah :P

I loved my hellcat before they neutered it but Im not that Assassin_M18 guy who only ever played it.

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I play what I want and what brings me fun, not what some retarded pubbie thinks what I should play. Every T49 game is a statpadding? Okay, I don't care. I'm here for lol pens. Oh, KV-2 is a padding tank? I'm touched so let me wipe away the tears with your 900+ HP.

It's my game and till I don't break rules I'm clear and happy.

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28 minutes ago, MacusFlash said:

Oh, KV-2 is a padding tank? I'm touched so let me wipe away the tears with your 900+ HP.

why u no 107mm :(

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Maybe "pad' isn't the correct word, but platooning certainly has a much better chance of maintaining a higher WN8. With absolutely landslide games that are so common a solid three player platoon has a much better chance of lasting longer and causing more damage and offsetting the shit roll a little more.  

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1 hour ago, Archaic_One said:

Stat padding is pretty much a myth for 99.9% of players.  

It really depends on how broad or narrow your definition of padding is...

Early on platooning was considered padding.

Pre credit sprem (and a bit now), shooting gold was considered padding.

Abusing OP tanks was considered padding - esp when more examples of balancetm existed.

Then the metrics arrived... sitting on cap was considered padding efficiency.

Averaging your tiers was considered padding wn7.

And now farming damage is a way to pad wn8.

 

The methods have changed over time, but it's not like they were somehow restricted to only the better players. In most cases it only involved a simple playstyle adjustment.

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2 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

I may be understanding you wrong, but wasn't WN8 supposed to remove tank selection padding? Give every tank its own values to beat, can't pad that because thats how well everyone else does in the tank. If its a better tank it has higher values, etc.

The main flaw is that you can't remove tank selection with a single value. Some tanks scale far better than others with "skill", usually because they rely on mobility and/or have good gold rounds. A point with a scale works well (or two points, equivalently), but you need very good quality data to generate that, which didn't exist when WN8 was created.

The second flaw is that even the single points in WN8 are really bad, with tanks like the E-50 having their centre point underrated by over 200 damage. That's fixable by replacing the expected value method, but no-one wanted to deal with the aggro given that the rest of the method was so flawed.

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