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Waffentrager auf panzer iv - Which gun?

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DPM is not important, you will never be camo sniping where you can abuse that 9.7 second reload at all times, it is much safer to shoot someone in the face for 750 every 15 seconds or so than try to put down that DPM.

AP pen is plenty, HEAT goes through anything and shell velocity is easily manageable if you played the borsig with the 15cm which is way worse.
Also the gun is just as accurate as the 12.8 if you ask me, it is not derpy like the russian guns are. The 12.8 is not laser accurate either like people make it out to be...

And you never aim backwards anyway, you aim to the sides, the depression is never an issue with the 15cm.
And the 12.8 has -2 depression forwards which does make for some awkward moments :l

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I found the mobility improvement with the 150 to be significant. The 128 is a better gun, but I preferred to have a zipper platform for surprising people with 750 alpha. 

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I have been spamming APCR of glorious 352mm pen.

Expensive as fuck, but hey penning e5s in the turret face from 300 meters away is oh so satisfying.

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35 minutes ago, monjardin said:

I found the mobility improvement with the 150 to be significant. The 128 is a better gun, but I preferred to have a zipper platform for surprising people with 750 alpha. 

When the gun adds ~10% extra weight you do feel it. On Borsig the difference is even bigger and that thing is fat compared to WT4.

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3 hours ago, Stige said:

DPM is not important, you will never be camo sniping where you can abuse that 9.7 second reload at all times, it is much safer to shoot someone in the face for 750 every 15 seconds or so than try to put down that DPM.

NA meta isn't EU levels of camping and passivity. I've platooned plenty where people have easily abused the 9.7s reload on a group of targets. Not saying the 150 doesn't work but I honestly think it might just be meta differences in this case. 

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I've been playing the WafflePz4 a good deal in the afterlife. Until recently, I'd been using the 150 for the mobility. Then I began experimenting with 100 octane and the 128.

If you can get used to using the sides to depress the gun, I would recommend the 128.

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Never played waffles

But I'm much more afraid of a Waffle IV using the long 128 than one using the 150. That long 128 is one fucking scary gun.

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19 hours ago, TheMarine0341 said:

And the other you get God-Like APCR and SerB lazer beams guidance system

I wish the lazer beam aspect was true, the gun feels so derpy for me... if it's not fully aimed it just seems to spray shots all over the shop.

Is gun depression on the top 15cm useable? It's too limiting on the stock 15cm for that to be viable. I haven't unlocked it yet, went straight for the t10 in order to buy it on discount.

Generally I would think the long 128 is going to be superior to the top 15cm due to the combination of penetration, alpha and rate of fire. While you lose out on alpha, the much better rate of fire and improved alpha compared to the stock 128 means that effective damage output is probably superior. Still, the ability to derp stuff with 750 alpha damage never gets old, which can be a strong selling point.

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42 minutes ago, Balthazars said:

I wish the lazer beam aspect was true, the gun feels so derpy for me... if it's not fully aimed it just seems to spray shots all over the shop.

Is gun depression on the top 15cm useable? It's too limiting on the stock 15cm for that to be viable. I haven't unlocked it yet, went straight for the t10 in order to buy it on discount.

Generally I would think the long 128 is going to be superior to the top 15cm due to the combination of penetration, alpha and rate of fire. While you lose out on alpha, the much better rate of fire and improved alpha compared to the stock 128 means that effective damage output is probably superior. Still, the ability to derp stuff with 750 alpha damage never gets old, which can be a strong selling point.

The 15cm has same depression all around and 0 backwards, as long as you are not aiming straight at the back you will be fine. No more issue of annoying -2 to the front like with the 12.8.

It has -5 to the sides and the back and -4 to the front where as the 12.8 has -2 to the front. Elevation backwards is 0 degrees.

http://tanks.gg/wot/tank/wt-auf-pz-iv

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My general consensus on almost all tanks is gun handling>pen>alpha>DPM

 

for example, the E 50M has shit DPM but can make the shots count thanks to gun handling and is why it's considered good

the platform also matters because higher speed means you can work with less pen, full turret also means you can work every angle you have FoV on (DPM importance finally coming into play) while a locked turret needs alpha for the lane it commits to. 

Some combos work very well together and it essentially comes down to how you play them. (Gun handling is given on all of them). I would personally run the 128 because I know I can keep the gun active enough for it to be worth using over the alpha advantage. 

The tank is mobile enough to keep up with the fight anyway so I'd much rather take a consistent gun over alpha trolls. 

I'd argue the derp is a lot easier to make use of as a non tryhard that doesn't  APCR as standard with the 128 :doge: 

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thanks for all the imput guys, ive played 30 games with the 15 now and well, i hate it, ok it can derp well but the reload, appears easier to keep tanks perma-tracked, and then i just unload on them

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On 4/19/2016 at 7:01 AM, Cunicularius said:

I've been playing the WafflePz4 a good deal in the afterlife. Until recently, I'd been using the 150 for the mobility. Then I began experimenting with 100 octane and the 128.

If you can get used to using the sides to depress the gun, I would recommend the 128.

Waffles burn very well...no AFE is a lot of risk...it should be avoided like should be avoided like unprotected sex with an Ethiopian transvestite.

 

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On 4/29/2016 at 11:20 AM, Felicius said:

Waffles burn very well...no AFE is a lot of risk...it should be avoided like should be avoided like unprotected sex with an Ethiopian transvestite.

 

Yeah, it burns well and looses engine on every other shot... I'm grinding this to get Grille from discount before end of month (have enough free exp already, but trying to use as little as possible), and quite frankly I've been hating almost every game in this tank. It just doesn't fit in current meta at all, I much rather play JT. I use 128mm gun and not planning to unlock 150 at all, this garbage won't be staying in my garage.

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4 hours ago, Stige said:

With 15cm this tank becomes a T9 Grille that is better than the Grille 15 itself.

Well, long 128 lets you snapshot tier x super heavies with APCR that Grille could only dream off. HEAT+worst bloom after arty or 183+rather slow shells (heat)+snapshot=hit the dirt/tracks/spaced armor 2/3 of time. And then your 750 alpha is shit even from a single lost shot per game. Waffle 4 can snapshot better with its own derp gun, less dispersion and softer enemies...but RHM and 150 gives you avesome mobility vs 128, while on waffle 4 it is not a problem of being underpowered most ot the time - you hit your top speed fairly often with 128 too. And 750 vs 490 is rather clear win, while 560 vs 750 not so much to sacrifice every single other aspect - accuracy, both penetrations, shell velocity, dpm, and ability to 2 vs 1 vs all heavies that have bigger alpha than 400. 1120>>>>>750. Reduced overall exposure.

 

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I much prefer the 15cm on both of them. High alpha and longer reload makes it much easier to put damage down and you don't have to expose your tank constantly to fight for damage like other tanks too. And you won't suffer if you have to time your shots between enemy reloads, the 15cm is just plain better. Not as op as on Borsig but still better. And it hits way better than the gun on Grille does, the 15cm on these two is not troll at all while Grille just trolls you constantly missing shots at 20m etc.

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Well, down to preferences I guess. I used 15 cm while grinding the long 128. It is a better gun to carry matches than on rhm, since rhm has bad DPM on 15 cm vs 128, and tier 8 battles end in steamrolls way too often. It is better than stock 128 on waffle 4, but I dislike  heat from derpy guns -from Ru or German meds it is good. 1500 m/s vs 900, 352 apcr vs 340 heat, and 0.33 vs 0.4...

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This is a tank that I just struggle with to no end. Using the long 128, and I swear I miss more with a .32 accuracy than what one would consider possible. I'm going to guess that the 150 would be better just to trade in corridor meta, but I'm not even remotely prepared to drop 50k xp on that when I could be using that 50k xp to put this grind forever behind me. And I'm sorry to say, but "snapshot APCR" is just a joke. This thing just never hits a snapshot for me, which doesn't jive well with my play style. Any tank that forces me to hide 100% of the time because the first HE shell that hits will kill 3+ modules religiously is a bad tank imo.

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On 9/25/2016 at 2:22 AM, Felicius said:

Well, down to preferences I guess. I used 15 cm while grinding the long 128. It is a better gun to carry matches than on rhm, since rhm has bad DPM on 15 cm vs 128, and tier 8 battles end in steamrolls way too often. It is better than stock 128 on waffle 4, but I dislike  heat from derpy guns -from Ru or German meds it is good. 1500 m/s vs 900, 352 apcr vs 340 heat, and 0.33 vs 0.4...

You don't need DPM when you have massive alpha like that. Alpha > DPM.

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5 hours ago, zyl said:

This is a tank that I just struggle with to no end. Using the long 128, and I swear I miss more with a .32 accuracy than what one would consider possible. I'm going to guess that the 150 would be better just to trade in corridor meta, but I'm not even remotely prepared to drop 50k xp on that when I could be using that 50k xp to put this grind forever behind me. And I'm sorry to say, but "snapshot APCR" is just a joke. This thing just never hits a snapshot for me, which doesn't jive well with my play style. Any tank that forces me to hide 100% of the time because the first HE shell that hits will kill 3+ modules religiously is a bad tank imo.

I swear that the crosshair on this tank aims a bit too low. It seems than my shells hit below the center at least 2x more often than above the reticle. I seriously aim a bit higher when I snipe (for example if I wanna hit a tank in a weak hull, I aim at the turret ring, not in the middle of the hull).

"Snapshot APCR" is not said in a manner "just let the shell fly, but not sure if you can hit the target at all", it is to snapshot tanks at close and mid distances, that you would hit anyway, but with AP you need weakspots, and for APCR you just aim middle mass (or wait till the whole tank fills the reticle). For example, you aim UPPER plates on E-50/75/even VKB, etc, not hatches/lower plates, turret faces...

Besides, regarding the 15 cm guns, 1st one is better (from Borsig). You do not need to unlock the later. It offers just a marginal upgrade of accuracy, but it is substantionally heavier (almost as a long 128). It has the same HEAT and HE pen, any you do not need any AP anyway.

So, you can try it exp free. You should have used it to unlock the top one, as it is better than short 128 (better DPM than on RHM).

5 hours ago, Stige said:

You don't need DPM when you have massive alpha like that. Alpha > DPM.

Which 15 cm do you use?

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6 minutes ago, Felicius said:

I swear that the crosshair on this tank aims a bit too low. It seems than my shells hit below the center at least 2x more often than above the reticle. I seriously aim a bit higher when I snipe (for example if I wanna hit a tank in a weak hull, I aim at the turret ring, not in the middle of the hull).

"Snapshot APCR" is not said in a manner "just let the shell fly, but not sure if you can hit the target at all", it is to snapshot tanks at close and mid distances, that you would hit anyway, but with AP you need weakspots, and for APCR you just aim middle mass (or wait till the whole tank fills the reticle). For example, you aim UPPER plates on E-50/75/even VKB, etc, not hatches/lower plates, turret faces...

Besides, regarding the 15 cm guns, 1st one is better (from Borsig). You do not need to unlock the later. It offers just a marginal upgrade of accuracy, but it is substantionally heavier (almost as a long 128). It has the same HEAT and HE pen, any you do not need any AP anyway.

So, you can try it exp free. You should have used it to unlock the top one, as it is better than short 128 (better DPM than on RHM).

Which 15 cm do you use?

Which? Top one? There is no other choice?

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8 minutes ago, Stige said:

Which? Top one? There is no other choice?

There are two 15 cm guns available, with the same stats. "top one" is basically an E-100 one, with slightly more acc (0.38), and 20 mm more AP penetration (but it is crappy anyway). Top one has a bit faster shells, but that is still pedestrian speed.

Fact is - for a stock grind, stock (RHM one) 15 cm allows you to mount equipment and unlock suspension (without taking a place for a module), since long 128 is too heavy for a stock one. It is also a tad lighter than the top one, so you have like 3% better power-to weight (handy if you run stock tracks)

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