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Snoregasm2's 3 MoE grind on the T-62A - Help Please!!

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I'd always considered 3 MoE to be nice to have, rather than true indications of skill. Put together a few good games, I thought, and you're laughing. Back when I ran XVM, that explained all the blues and greens who had them, on tier 9 and 10 tanks such as the E5.

"That looks easy, I'm sure I could do it if I put a little effort in".

Wrong.

Having been partly inspired by @Kolni and his epic collection of 3 MoEs, I decided to give it a go at tier 9. Unfortunately, I picked the hardest tier 9 to do it on, the Skoda TVP 50. 300+ games after tryharding (and eventually achieving it), I realised how much of an idiot I was. I've since obtained 3 MoE on the E 50 and M46 KR (the 2nd one was actually easy, but tier 8 and below doesn't count, hence my M41 Bulldog and E25 3 MoE help my raw numbers (still 30+ behind Kolni) but don't add any real value). Whilst the M46 Patton grind is on temporary hold due to lack of credits, I decided - following some prompting - to stop being a scrub and to grind some marks at tier 10.

Which brings me here. I started playing the T-62A, thinking it would be a good first tier 10 to grind marks on. I like it more than the 140, it has good DPM, a great turret, what's not to like? So I started playing some games. Wow, I'd left it at 80% even though I had 2 MoE. Got it back up to 85%. Then up to 90%. Then back down to 85. Then 87 etc. I just couldn't even get close to 95%.

So I'm going to start posting my replays in the T-62A, in batches of 10 (mostly), so you guys can help me. Please tell me exactly what you'd change, and why. Tell me my mistakes, and what I did right (and the team just fucked up around me). My first 10, recorded tonight, opened my eyes to how fucking terrible it is to solo-pub at tier 10 sometimes. There was a 1-15 defeat and multiple other blowouts, including the last 3 games. Was it my fault we lost those? You tell me.

My setup:

jB2Ue5k.jpg

I'm trying to save credits, so no Food. May change when I start earning some more again, but the next food purchase is reserved for Czech food.

MoE: Start - 85.23%

MoE: After 10 games - 88.42%

MoE: After 12 games - 90.09%

DPG over 10 games: 3,792. APG: 870

Screenshot of first 10 games, which I won 50% only:

PBongDw.png

Screenshot of games 11-12 (I was tired so decided to quit whilst I was ahead):

PmAyHwB.png

First 10 games in spoiler below:

Spoiler

Game 1 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667121#redshire-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: Was I too passive here? Not sure, let me know.

Game 2 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667126#ruinberg-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: My first 'special' team of the night. 5 Minute battle in which I died after 3 minutes. Did I do all I could here?

Game 3 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667131#tundra-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: Nice 938 team dmg from our Object 704, so I TK'd that idiot. I regret nothing, even though it counts against MoE. I think I did well to come back from that.

Game 4 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667137#erlenberg-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: I thought this was a good carry. Note the CAX player on our team on full HP. He does 0 dmg, camps all game and is an absolute moron. I checked, and he has a 34% W/R in the CAX, with 850 average dmg. Why do these retarded fucking inbreds play tier 10!? Isn't breathing hard enough?

Game 5 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667142#teams

Comments: Ah, the aforementioned 1-15 defeat. What's more to say. Could I have done more? Also one of three(?) games where I didn't come top of the team by XP.

Game 6 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667149#highway-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: This one displayed why the T-62A is better than the 140 in a lot of situations. An Ace Tanker, so critique if you want, but I'm not here for praise.

Game 7 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667150#teams

Comments: ROFLstomp for us this time, the only one of the 10. Couldn't get any dmg - should I have gone to the heavy area instead?

Game 8 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667151#teams

Comments: 1 shot by a 183 as our meds camped from the back. I always play city on defence - is that the wrong move?

Game 9 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667154#teams

Comments: Map rotation at its finest. My team melted so fast again, I ended up trying to defend the base to no avail. The enemy T-62 platoon rekt me hard. I could have maybe got another 2k out of this one, but how to get the win?

Game 10 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2667155#steppes-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: Eurgh. 2 tanks from the enemy roll right through the middle, another CAX (anyone who plays that tank is a fucking retard) goes to the wrong flank and we get rolled again. My fault? As you can see, I went more passive in this game after getting ym fingers burnt in the last two games. Didn't help.

 

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APG looks a wee bit low, especially for an optics setup - you have 2 games with 0. Try spotting more and/or tracking more.

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Damage is low along with assisted.  Track more and do more damage period.  I shot for 4.5k dpg with 1k assisted (since I can't spot and assist to save my life).  Got it up to like 94% when I quit trying in this god awful game.

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9 hours ago, woe2you said:

APG looks a wee bit low, especially for an optics setup - you have 2 games with 0. Try spotting more and/or tracking more.

 

8 hours ago, Shifty_101st said:

Damage is low along with assisted.  Track more and do more damage period.  I shot for 4.5k dpg with 1k assisted (since I can't spot and assist to save my life).  

I would agree with the basics of both those assessments. Ideally I'd have 6k dmg and 3k assist every game, but this isn't an ideal world. I was wondering what I could have done differently, in the replays provided, to increase both dmg and assist?

For example, on the Himmelsdorf game (the 1-15), I honestly have no idea as to how I could have a) lived longer and gotten more dmg or b) got any assist dmg (I could have tried to aim longer for tracking shots but - in a tank with no gun depression with 2 or 3 tanks aiming at me - I would have gotten shot to shit just trying).

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micropositioning is really important in this, there is almost always a way you can can engage hulldown any target in any area on every map (it can hulldown the H1 hill on Erlenberg for example, meaning you can keep shooting while being spotted to get your full DPM out instead of 320 damage every 10-12 seconds) and the time it takes going through positioning is almost always worth it. 

I'd also recommend a 25/25 setup and drop the HE completely. HEAT on tracks will track for decaps anyway and HE pens troll more often than not anyway. 

Go REALLY aggressive early to gain map control and bait stuff with overangled UFP/turret to benefit the most of given/taken damage before deciding whether to keep going aggressive or being passive. Your armour means squat in CQC unless hulldown so having 200m+ between enemies is important. 

Sidescraping needs to be done without showing front wheel because you can get penned AND tracked despite alright sidearmour and mediumthick tracks.

save HP for yolo spots into hulldown positions for spotting because HP late game really lets you boost the numbers you need

 

or do it my way and redline and then go into op hulldown when team is losing to get an extra 3k dmg out before the enemies can dig you out :serb: 

 

140 is essentially the same except it's better at snapshots and clean up races but less armour and higher reqs makes for a much harder MoE. (I hardly feel a difference between 5 and 6 dep tbh, both can work the same spots but 62a just needs some adjusting)

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I admit that getting gun marks at tier 10 is very very hard. Would like to know how to too, since I have 2 in the ones I play the most.

On the other hand, tier 8 gun marks... :dealdog:

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57 minutes ago, Kolni said:

micropositioning is really important in this, there is almost always a way you can can engage hulldown any target in any area on every map (it can hulldown the H1 hill on Erlenberg for example, meaning you can keep shooting while being spotted to get your full DPM out instead of 320 damage every 10-12 seconds) and the time it takes going through positioning is almost always worth it. 

I'd also recommend a 25/25 setup and drop the HE completely. HEAT on tracks will track for decaps anyway and HE pens troll more often than not anyway. 

Go REALLY aggressive early to gain map control and bait stuff with overangled UFP/turret to benefit the most of given/taken damage before deciding whether to keep going aggressive or being passive. Your armour means squat in CQC unless hulldown so having 200m+ between enemies is important. 

Sidescraping needs to be done without showing front wheel because you can get penned AND tracked despite alright sidearmour and mediumthick tracks.

save HP for yolo spots into hulldown positions for spotting because HP late game really lets you boost the numbers you need

 

or do it my way and redline and then go into op hulldown when team is losing to get an extra 3k dmg out before the enemies can dig you out :serb: 

 

140 is essentially the same except it's better at snapshots and clean up races but less armour and higher reqs makes for a much harder MoE. (I hardly feel a difference between 5 and 6 dep tbh, both can work the same spots but 62a just needs some adjusting)

Doesn't the T-62A have better gun handling? It always felt like it did for me. I tend to keep the HE for Waffles as it's just an easy 400 dmg 9/10, which averages out as more than 320 even with the non-pen. I never run out of HEAT anyway (although I do run out of APCR a lot).

I managed to nail the micropositioning a couple of times, e.g. the Ace on Highway, but I struggle with that generally as I normally play tanks with -8 gun dep or better.

Thanks for the sidescraping tip. So basically all you can do in RU meds is bait, rather than bounce consistently like an E 50/M?

21 minutes ago, sartox said:

I admit that getting gun marks at tier 10 is very very hard. Would like to know how to too, since I have 2 in the ones I play the most.

On the other hand, tier 8 gun marks... :dealdog:

Yeah it's much harder than expected so far.

Btw, lomach in your clan was the twat who did 938 team dmg to me for literally no reason in one of the replays above. Does he have a reputation for being a dick, or was he just mad because bad?

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Play for damage, not for the win. At certain point doing enough damage wins the game for you anyways. Only attempt tracking if you're sure to accomplish. I rather do 320 damage, than miss the shot completely. 

It's also helpful to put food on the tank. The boost it gives is too significant to miss out on. I dropped medkit for rations and trained joat for the commander. 

It's nice to have 3 marked tier tens (I have IS-7, 30B & 62A), but I dont judge players according to them. 

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5 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Doesn't the T-62A have better gun handling? It always felt like it did for me. I tend to keep the HE for Waffles as it's just an easy 400 dmg 9/10, which averages out as more than 320 even with the non-pen. I never run out of HEAT anyway (although I do run out of APCR a lot).

I managed to nail the micropositioning a couple of times, e.g. the Ace on Highway, but I struggle with that generally as I normally play tanks with -8 gun dep or better.

Thanks for the sidescraping tip. So basically all you can do in RU meds is bait, rather than bounce consistently like an E 50/M?

Get a clan, credit bonusa and run food you cheap fgt

Well you can pretty much sidescrape like an IS-7 but as soon as they can actually hit your hull through tracks or hit your front wheel at all (only accounts for 62A and not 140 IIRC) you can get penned meaning you have to sidescrape reaaaally straight for the shot to bounce. 62a hull armour is weak af and the only reason the gun feels better is due to top speed being lower. The 140 gun is noticeably easier to hit snapshots in due to 1 degree of dep and less bloom moving (while 62a has better turret traverse IIRC)

 

basically grab a spot. dig yourself in as much as possible, move a little cuz arta, pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew relocate pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew and redo

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4 hours ago, Kolni said:

basically grab a spot. dig yourself in as much as possible, move a little cuz arta, pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew relocate pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew and redo

Like this?

Games 11/12 in spoiler below:

Spoiler

Game 11 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2668921#karelia-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: No arty paradise on a great map. Started slow but had full HP for clean up. Got my revenge on that lomach cunt from the night before too.

Game 12 - http://wotreplays.com/site/2668926#tundra-snoregasm2-t-62a

Comments: Not much to say. Outhought the 50/51 at the end, despite my team doing their best to lose. Decided to call it a night after this game.

OP edited with updated MoE progress.

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SG, you are a much better player than me, so bear with me :)

I watched games #1, #2 and # 3

#1 as you said-way too passive. You chose a weird start position. I suppose it had smth to do
with the fact that your team was a little short on meds, After 30secs your tream dispersed nicely to both
sides though, so if you had chosen to go center hill you would have had backup.
I clocked you to a full 2mins+ in the beginning where your gun was silent. To live life like Kewei/Xena
that is way too long. The rest of the game was okay, decent rack-up.

#2 You chose a high risk/high reward center drive which with only one clicker present is perfect for the 62A.
 Your shooting wasnt particularly impressive though. You also backed up a little
too much when covering your hull with the result that you lost maybe as much as an extra second
both backwards and forwards hampering your DPM when dueling with that E50. 
Expert Ru med drivers like KillerTiger and his like have this uncanny ability to adjust perfectly
to every small curvature and only moving just a little backwards and forwards when shooting.
I believe they would have smacked up that E50 with at least one more round before diverting 
like you did. I run XVM and your were dealt an absolute crap team there. Your decent fight
middle didnt help, they simply died along little city or camped hard with turretless TD's at standard
inefficient positions in base.To win that one would be a stretch.

#3 Not much to be said, a great game where you carry. You disturb enemy hill team and keep
game under control from beginning to end. More than good enough  average needed for 3MOE's


I think you simply need to drive the 62A a little more to develop that special turret abuse ability.
Also put some food on so that you dont hamper your mathematical probabilities of 3MOEing stuff :)

:thumbup:

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21 hours ago, ProxyCentauri said:

SG, you are a much better player than me, so bear with me :)

I watched games #1, #2 and # 3

#1 as you said-way too passive. You chose a weird start position. I suppose it had smth to do
with the fact that your team was a little short on meds, After 30secs your tream dispersed nicely to both
sides though, so if you had chosen to go center hill you would have had backup.
I clocked you to a full 2mins+ in the beginning where your gun was silent. To live life like Kewei/Xena
that is way too long. The rest of the game was okay, decent rack-up.

#2 You chose a high risk/high reward center drive which with only one clicker present is perfect for the 62A.
 Your shooting wasnt particularly impressive though. You also backed up a little
too much when covering your hull with the result that you lost maybe as much as an extra second
both backwards and forwards hampering your DPM when dueling with that E50. 
Expert Ru med drivers like KillerTiger and his like have this uncanny ability to adjust perfectly
to every small curvature and only moving just a little backwards and forwards when shooting.
I believe they would have smacked up that E50 with at least one more round before diverting 
like you did. I run XVM and your were dealt an absolute crap team there. Your decent fight
middle didnt help, they simply died along little city or camped hard with turretless TD's at standard
inefficient positions in base.To win that one would be a stretch.

#3 Not much to be said, a great game where you carry. You disturb enemy hill team and keep
game under control from beginning to end. More than good enough  average needed for 3MOE's


I think you simply need to drive the 62A a little more to develop that special turret abuse ability.
Also put some food on so that you dont hamper your mathematical probabilities of 3MOEing stuff :)

:thumbup:

No, I appreciate any feedback, so thank you for the input.

I'm at work now, but I'll try and review this later and add edit this as appropriate. Did you get a chance to watch any more games?

I played some more over the weekend and it's back down to 85% :( The teams were so bad but I'm still really annoyed that all the games above were basically for nothing.

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SG, you are more than capable of doing it. It shows after only some seconds every game that you have
excellent situational awareness and great reflexes. After all, you are a unicum player and it shows.
All you need is to home into the Ru-med style a little more effectively and get some self-confidence.
As Kolni put it it is 'pow-pow-pow-pow' with small jerky irregular movements because of clickers.

You need to be in the zone, have some luck and max out everything that influences DPM.
By not using food, are you saying you are 3% better than KillerTiger and Kewei? ;)
Because mathematically that is the premise. You gotta play even better than them to make it work.
Dont do it, get some food and max out the DPM. When we are talkin percentiles as high as 95
absolutely everything matters.

Kolni is great at this because he specializes in DMG farming, not WR(not that it dont correlate)
He is also very much happy go lucky. 
3MOE happens when it happens and you more or less step backwards into it-
its like with those goddamn missions on obj 260
GL
:thumbup:

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On 5/8/2016 at 11:57 AM, ProxyCentauri said:

#1 as you said-way too passive. You chose a weird start position. I suppose it had smth to do
with the fact that your team was a little short on meds, After 30secs your tream dispersed nicely to both
sides though, so if you had chosen to go center hill you would have had backup.
I clocked you to a full 2mins+ in the beginning where your gun was silent. To live life like Kewei/Xena
that is way too long. The rest of the game was okay, decent rack-up.

I didn't think about it like that tbh - I often go there for some early dmg for their meds/TDs that get lit on the middle hill. Didn't work out that time but it's a pretty useful 'safe' location from which you can retreat fairly easily. I thought perhaps I was too passive in the mid-game, but I guess sometimes 3k dmg has to suffice. 

#2 You chose a high risk/high reward center drive which with only one clicker present is perfect for the 62A.
 Your shooting wasnt particularly impressive though. You also backed up a little
too much when covering your hull with the result that you lost maybe as much as an extra second
both backwards and forwards hampering your DPM when dueling with that E50. 
Expert Ru med drivers like KillerTiger and his like have this uncanny ability to adjust perfectly
to every small curvature and only moving just a little backwards and forwards when shooting.
I believe they would have smacked up that E50 with at least one more round before diverting 
like you did. I run XVM and your were dealt an absolute crap team there. Your decent fight
middle didnt help, they simply died along little city or camped hard with turretless TD's at standard
inefficient positions in base.To win that one would be a stretch.

Yeah, I don't run XVM but I imagined my team was bad. They all died so quickly, my gameplan melted with their deaths. I've started going to the middle road more, but I don't like how you can get stuck, especially if your team is passive either in the central city or the village, which means you get rekt easily by their tanks poking.

I'm annoyed about that E 50 fight - I agree I could have handled it better. I might try and look at some additional replays to see if I can work out how to play an RU med better in that situation.

#3 Not much to be said, a great game where you carry. You disturb enemy hill team and keep
game under control from beginning to end. More than good enough  average needed for 3MOE's

If I could average that I'd be there in no time :awyeah: Easier said than done though :feelsbad:

 

 

On 5/9/2016 at 9:33 AM, ProxyCentauri said:

SG, you are more than capable of doing it. It shows after only some seconds every game that you have
excellent situational awareness and great reflexes. After all, you are a unicum player and it shows.
All you need is to home into the Ru-med style a little more effectively and get some self-confidence.
As Kolni put it it is 'pow-pow-pow-pow' with small jerky irregular movements because of clickers.

You need to be in the zone, have some luck and max out everything that influences DPM.
By not using food, are you saying you are 3% better than KillerTiger and Kewei? ;)
Because mathematically that is the premise. You gotta play even better than them to make it work.
Dont do it, get some food and max out the DPM. When we are talkin percentiles as high as 95
absolutely everything matters.

Do you really think food makes that much difference on an RU med? I can understand it on other tanks, but I've never felt 'crippled' by it, except in a couple of dogfigths where I wished I had reloaded faster. My reasoning is that lots of people get 3 MoE without food, so why can't I?

My true intention is to get to around 91/92% then mount food, together with vents again, to max out DPM whilst maintain 445m view range. The problem is I've been going backwards lately and I'm back down to 85% :feelsbad:

Kolni is great at this because he specializes in DMG farming, not WR(not that it dont correlate)
He is also very much happy go lucky. 
3MOE happens when it happens and you more or less step backwards into it-
its like with those goddamn missions on obj 260
GL
:thumbup:

I need to try and catch some of @Kolni's streams more (stop streaming when I'm at work!) when he plays RU meds.

 

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I wouldn't drop Optics for Vents when switching to use food. 5,33 reload with great vision is lot better, than 5,22s reload with "Okeyish" view range.  Hopefully I remembered the reload times correctly, at least you get my point.

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6 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

 

Do you really think food makes that much difference on an RU med? I can understand it on other tanks, but I've never felt 'crippled' by it, except in a couple of dogfigths where I wished I had reloaded faster. My reasoning is that lots of people get 3 MoE without food, so why can't I?

My true intention is to get to around 91/92% then mount food, together with vents again, to max out DPM whilst maintain 445m view range. The problem is I've been going backwards lately and I'm back down to 85% :feelsbad:

In randoms food in general isnt necessary. So ofc, your argument is right.
Its just about getting things done slightly easier.
You could leave it be till you reach the area of +-90 % .
From there I would get it rigged with max focus on DPM. 
 

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